Still very flat, give it some mood, give it a story, give it context. There's an odd square thing happening in the water? Fix that. Use volumetric effects, fog particles, fill the air with flies etc. Read up on composition, think Fibonacci spiral. Use fire! Use contrast. If you can make such nice assets then you can make better swamp water than you have there! Murky dirty water. Reflections? Your little tufts of grass look too dense and too dark. That's all I can think of for now. Good work, keep going!
Thank you for this feedback, it's indeed very helpful. This is the first time I use UDK and still have a lot to learn. And I feel like my environment has too little space inside of it, probably I need to get away from initial plan and think about good composition from camera view. Thank you once again!
Ged Thanks!
evilblah Actually there are blue lights in mushroom areas and yellow before the houses, but I agree the whole picture doesn't come together well. I'll spend more time on lighting. Thank you for your comment.
I think the biggest problem with your environment right now is your composition and lighting overall. Don't be afraid to play around with colors even if it's not "realistic" persay.
What matters is how we perceive a swamp.
Here is a quick paintover. I've cropped one of your shots, added some tiny lighting changes and blocked out colors a little bit to reduce the overall noise in your environment.
Just try and focus on what's important in your scene, making assets is one thing then making a whole scene come together as well is a whole other set of skills. So yeah just focus on composition, use of color and lighting for now.
No need to bring lots of particle effects and stuff into it yet, just make sure that the original scene feels good when you look at it.
This is a pretty cool thread, some good modeling some decent textures and a lot of good advice, that is actually being followed, awesome!
I think you're really close to making this a fantastic environment.
But I can't let you get away without a few crits:
- I think you're swamp needs a canopy. When I google "Swamp" I see a lot of foliage higher up and that adds to the feel of the swamp, it puts a lid on the box and filters the lighting in a specific way. Right now it feels like there isn't a lid.
- The ground texture could use a lot of work.
- In your shots it's very easy to tell where the tree roots, they stick out because they don't blend into the ground. The trees have one texture and the ground another, they have different color pallets and they don't blend well together. If the ground was a bit more like the tree textures then they would blend a lot better.
- The ground is the catch all for everything that falls from above or gets washed in. Your ground has a lot of green in it, but not a lot of dead or decaying matter, dirt or muck. The floor of the swamp is the garbage dump for the swamp, it needs to be a reflection of everything that the swamp throws away. Typically no one comes in and cleans up the swamp floor, leaves fall, no one rakes them up, its all part of the cycle of the swamp and its been going on for a very long time.
- You can exploit this to show human activity. By adding order to the chaos you can help guide players visually where they need to go.
- Don't just place one clump of grass, taper it off. Copy the object scale it smaller and place the little copies around it. Think of grass as colonies that grow and spread.
- The oldest most established will be the biggest with the stuff on the outer edges being newer and smaller. Also factor in how different water levels play a role in the vegetation. A seed that falls in an ideal spot will grow to its full potential a seed that falls in spot that gets too much water or not enough will be different. These subtle changes affect how that colony of plants look.
- Plants are territorial and they fight in their own way for dominance of the good growing conditions. Just because they move really slowly doesn't mean there isn't a story there.
- Humans have an impact on the environment, they will carve out paths and beat down vegetation they will move branches and trees and wear down moss on rocks that they walk on.
- Think of the things people would need to survive in a swamp. As city dwellers we are often clueless as to what people living in remote areas might need to just get by. Often they have to make due with what they have and they can't just run out and buy something if it breaks or needs to be modified. So they tend to hang onto a lot of raw materials, city-folk like to call this "junk" they throw it away, but to swamp people, its materials to fix and repair things, to make new stuff and its how they get by.
- Lots of perfect right angles on the buildings, if you can spend enough polys to make every board in a doc you can warp and twist a few right angles.
- Waterlines, swamps don't have a constant water level, they raise and fall, that leaves rings and effects what grows where. That ebb and flow is part of the overall story of the swamp.
- The water color is pretty blue and clear, while swamp water tends to be murky brown or green and often full of plant life in the areas where water sits. Often the shoreline blends right into the water.
This is a good example to study.
Notice how certain plants grow in certain areas, how the scummy algae tends to hang around the edges of things and the more open water tends to move and push it to the edges, if left alone long enough it will eventually cover the water.
In the center the grassy plants are a good example of tapering.
The plants around the base of the trees help them blend in, you have this to some degree, but its just very sparse so they don't blend that well.
This seems like a giant wall of crits but it doesn't have to be applied to this environment. Most of it is just me trying to help you live in your environment so you can flesh it out a little better. You can take most of these observations and bring them to your next few environments.
TLDR: Live in your environment, tell all of the stories that are there and not just the human ones. Those trees, those rocks, even that pond scum has a story. When you dig in and tell those stories it gives the scene a sense of depth that everyone knows is missing if its not there, but only a few people can put their finger on it. That's the language of the environment artist, it's what speaks to art directors when they look at your stuff. You have to observe and recreate on a deeper level than what players will casually look at and pass by.
Those little stories are the framework that make our worlds come alive and seem believable.
Great stuff, I hope you keep working on it, I think you've got something good, I wouldn't spill all this ink if I didn't see something valuable.
Thank you so much for your feedback and for tons of good advice, it's really valuable. You made me look at my work from different angle. I will do my best to use your feedback in the most efficient way!
Your skill is improving with every update, things are looking better and better.
I agree that it should have a secondary colour in the scene, even a very subtle one (like swamp flowers)to break it up a little and give it more life.
On a side note, the fish drying on the line stand out since they don't look like they are actually being pulled down by gravity properly. The rope would be pulled down further into a point with all that fishy weight. Its a little bit of picky criticism=)
Mr Smo Thank you! I'll try to add some red colors to my scene, probably flowers or something of that kind. And maybe one more vertex color channel for wet spots. Thanks for the idea
JellyBee Thank you for the comment! I'll fix the fish
Replies
Thank you for this feedback, it's indeed very helpful. This is the first time I use UDK and still have a lot to learn. And I feel like my environment has too little space inside of it, probably I need to get away from initial plan and think about good composition from camera view. Thank you once again!
Ged Thanks!
evilblah Actually there are blue lights in mushroom areas and yellow before the houses, but I agree the whole picture doesn't come together well. I'll spend more time on lighting. Thank you for your comment.
What matters is how we perceive a swamp.
Here is a quick paintover. I've cropped one of your shots, added some tiny lighting changes and blocked out colors a little bit to reduce the overall noise in your environment.
Just try and focus on what's important in your scene, making assets is one thing then making a whole scene come together as well is a whole other set of skills. So yeah just focus on composition, use of color and lighting for now.
No need to bring lots of particle effects and stuff into it yet, just make sure that the original scene feels good when you look at it.
Wow, thank you, I really appreciate. Your paintover looks nice, and I will try to make my scene look nice as well
Chillydog12345
Thank you, I will try this.
Sorry I also forgot to say, really good job so far
Thank you! With all that support I just don't have a right to make bad work now
I think you're really close to making this a fantastic environment.
But I can't let you get away without a few crits:
- I think you're swamp needs a canopy. When I google "Swamp" I see a lot of foliage higher up and that adds to the feel of the swamp, it puts a lid on the box and filters the lighting in a specific way. Right now it feels like there isn't a lid.
- The ground texture could use a lot of work.
- In your shots it's very easy to tell where the tree roots, they stick out because they don't blend into the ground. The trees have one texture and the ground another, they have different color pallets and they don't blend well together. If the ground was a bit more like the tree textures then they would blend a lot better.
- The ground is the catch all for everything that falls from above or gets washed in. Your ground has a lot of green in it, but not a lot of dead or decaying matter, dirt or muck. The floor of the swamp is the garbage dump for the swamp, it needs to be a reflection of everything that the swamp throws away. Typically no one comes in and cleans up the swamp floor, leaves fall, no one rakes them up, its all part of the cycle of the swamp and its been going on for a very long time.
- You can exploit this to show human activity. By adding order to the chaos you can help guide players visually where they need to go.
- Don't just place one clump of grass, taper it off. Copy the object scale it smaller and place the little copies around it. Think of grass as colonies that grow and spread.
- The oldest most established will be the biggest with the stuff on the outer edges being newer and smaller. Also factor in how different water levels play a role in the vegetation. A seed that falls in an ideal spot will grow to its full potential a seed that falls in spot that gets too much water or not enough will be different. These subtle changes affect how that colony of plants look.
- Plants are territorial and they fight in their own way for dominance of the good growing conditions. Just because they move really slowly doesn't mean there isn't a story there.
- Humans have an impact on the environment, they will carve out paths and beat down vegetation they will move branches and trees and wear down moss on rocks that they walk on.
- Think of the things people would need to survive in a swamp. As city dwellers we are often clueless as to what people living in remote areas might need to just get by. Often they have to make due with what they have and they can't just run out and buy something if it breaks or needs to be modified. So they tend to hang onto a lot of raw materials, city-folk like to call this "junk" they throw it away, but to swamp people, its materials to fix and repair things, to make new stuff and its how they get by.
- Lots of perfect right angles on the buildings, if you can spend enough polys to make every board in a doc you can warp and twist a few right angles.
- Waterlines, swamps don't have a constant water level, they raise and fall, that leaves rings and effects what grows where. That ebb and flow is part of the overall story of the swamp.
- The water color is pretty blue and clear, while swamp water tends to be murky brown or green and often full of plant life in the areas where water sits. Often the shoreline blends right into the water.
This is a good example to study.
Notice how certain plants grow in certain areas, how the scummy algae tends to hang around the edges of things and the more open water tends to move and push it to the edges, if left alone long enough it will eventually cover the water.
In the center the grassy plants are a good example of tapering.
The plants around the base of the trees help them blend in, you have this to some degree, but its just very sparse so they don't blend that well.
This seems like a giant wall of crits but it doesn't have to be applied to this environment. Most of it is just me trying to help you live in your environment so you can flesh it out a little better. You can take most of these observations and bring them to your next few environments.
TLDR: Live in your environment, tell all of the stories that are there and not just the human ones. Those trees, those rocks, even that pond scum has a story. When you dig in and tell those stories it gives the scene a sense of depth that everyone knows is missing if its not there, but only a few people can put their finger on it. That's the language of the environment artist, it's what speaks to art directors when they look at your stuff. You have to observe and recreate on a deeper level than what players will casually look at and pass by.
Those little stories are the framework that make our worlds come alive and seem believable.
Great stuff, I hope you keep working on it, I think you've got something good, I wouldn't spill all this ink if I didn't see something valuable.
Thank you so much for your feedback and for tons of good advice, it's really valuable. You made me look at my work from different angle. I will do my best to use your feedback in the most efficient way!
I agree that it should have a secondary colour in the scene, even a very subtle one (like swamp flowers)to break it up a little and give it more life.
On a side note, the fish drying on the line stand out since they don't look like they are actually being pulled down by gravity properly. The rope would be pulled down further into a point with all that fishy weight. Its a little bit of picky criticism=)
Thank you! I'll try to add some red colors to my scene, probably flowers or something of that kind. And maybe one more vertex color channel for wet spots. Thanks for the idea
JellyBee
Thank you for the comment! I'll fix the fish
Thanks!
mbischof
Thanks, this statue came out a mixture of wooden idols of all times and nations
Thanks! Yes, I added fog above the water.
Sorry, I missed your comment. Thanks!
Thank you, I'll try to tune it some more.