marvelous designer 2
polycount lvl 666
I have been messing around with the demo the past few days and I think its pretty damn good. You can get some really nice cloth shapes out of it. Do you think this is the way forward for production now, rather than spending days sculpting cloth from scratch.
I guess you just output the high res , project that on to a low base mesh in zbrush and then after tweaking in zbrush, retopo. this way you could even do morph targets for knee bends etc
single user licence is around 600 dollars , not sure if that would be cheaper when done in pounds sterling, but they will probably just charge 600 pounds
this was my quick test, sure I can do better with more knowledge
notice the avatar is of lower res than the cloth, hence the facted output. I am sure there must be a way to fix this
I guess you just output the high res , project that on to a low base mesh in zbrush and then after tweaking in zbrush, retopo. this way you could even do morph targets for knee bends etc
single user licence is around 600 dollars , not sure if that would be cheaper when done in pounds sterling, but they will probably just charge 600 pounds
this was my quick test, sure I can do better with more knowledge
notice the avatar is of lower res than the cloth, hence the facted output. I am sure there must be a way to fix this
Replies
as for using this tool, go for it if you like the results.
for me personally, i never liked the results completely and almost always i can tell that it is simulated because i can spot the usual errors.
1. folds are too gravity dependent. interactive tweaking doesn't work too well and end result looks only good for resting/bind pose.
2. only fast enough for very simple clothing, for complicated stuff my hand sculpting is faster than this and more accurate consider things like memory folds and different poses the character will be later on.
3. for an acceptable result the mesh has to be very dense and exporting that and converting it to sculpt mesh is another time waster.
4. hard to match cloth silhouette AND have proper folds too at the same time. for example you have to make parts of cloth either elastic or put a elastic seam to create pleating effect or make an opening narrow to get fold.
5. more fun to sculpt by hand, more control too.
I think though it's really good to do a simple cloth sim in either this progam or max/maya before sulpting. I have found this to be of great value
I do think though as time goes by this kind of approach will become the norm, mainly because it fairly quick to set up. The one above took about 20 minutes
I must say though I would n't describe sculpting cloth by hand to be fun:/
ended up with this
if you want to make that dress a bit higher res you can change the particle distance from 20 to 5
I must say the docs are abit lacking and the tut's just seeem to do a lot of showcasing rather than step by step
but yeah this image wasn't too bad, but as bit ruffley in places
THIS WASN'T DONE BY ME - but looks pretty good I think
and this is ok
Awesome stuff, can't wait to try it further.
sorry about the confusion pior
i tbink the second one was pretty similar to the raw output, just a few light details added in zbrush
can you interact comfortably while simulation is on ?
if you get good performance, what is your system spec ?
http://www.cgfeedback.com/cgfeedback/showpost.php?p=47034&postcount=24
that looks pretty good actually. i wonder how laggy it gets with that high res mesh because last time i tried MD2 demo with particle density of 5 the simulation was way too slow and my system is i73930k with 32gb ram, gtx460 2gb. may be it is more gfx card dependent ...
Thanks for the link MM ! When I tried it a bit I had no idea that there was a pressure/inflate setting, great to know.
As far as response time is concerned, I found it pretty slow too. If I understand correctly, switching particule distance to something like 5 should be done at the very end - that is to say, after the main simulation is done, with a broader default value.
yup, export a higher subdivision
as for your result, try to find proper sewing patterns, it really helps a great deal with the look of an asset.
The biggest flaw i found so far is my lack of proper knowledge of sewing, creating believable jeans for instance is something i couldn't achieve so far.
Another thing is a missing "wrinkle memory", everything just simulates itself very soft, for instance if i angle my arm, the folds in some areas stay the same if i move it back to straight, unless i do some other extreme movements they retain for quite a while and also if used the same way over and over become part of the piece of clothing. While in all simulations i tested those wrinkles just get lost over time.
I found it way easier to create nice thin cloth like silk, linen or maybe even lightleather (due to the soft folds it creates) but properly looking denim or other thicker and harder clothtypes are not realy possible right now.
At first glance the results look pretty believable and are an awesome base to work with, especially when you have to do plenty of cloth pieces during a production, but if you look more into it, you'll see quite a few deadends with the current gen of clothsim.
The ones i tested of course.
mastering this app seems to require a new skill set tho and right now to me does not look like the quick fix to make (final output quality) 3D clothing.
It's like when you have to mirror a half a shirt, its 'unfold' rather than mirror
thomasp - you can actually stitch in 3d which is much more intuitive. you will notice you have the same seam icons on the 3d window. Weird how none of the tutorials mention this
I don't think this approach is 100 percent useable yet, but its getting there. Perhaps the next version might touch on the areas that are lacking
One thing to try is to change the shrinkage once you have draped it. you can make it a bit baggier this way OR you can select all the patterns and scale horizontally.This makes it the garment bigger/baggier
Neox - if you want to use the existing avatars, there seems to be no way to increase the res of the inbuilt avatars unles I have missed something. Though obviously I am going to be using mainly my own avatars.
re making leather or thicker cloth I think you can do this my tweaking the parameters.
I will try and do some more tests today, hopefully I can come up with some nicer stuff.
This one seems ok- the jacket is not too bad, but the trousers seem overly wrinkled
http://www.joelmongeon.com/Whitepage.html
you have to scroll down a bit to see how he made it.
Any thoughts ?
the last time i used the trial version there was only really terrible triangulated output so i ended up having to do some crazy retopo based off of the uv's it generates. It worked but never got a super clean result without at least a few hours put into it.
I am going to play around more tonight seee if I can make something a bit more convincing.
MikeF, you could just knock up a low poly mesh , subdivide it 5 or 6 times and project the detail from the marvelous design mesh on to it in zbrush.
joebount - try autoscale
hey Mike, can you please elaborate on this ?
i am thinking of purchasing a license but the performance thing is holding me back.
under 'basic', look for particle distance and when you are doing simulation set it to 20
when you are happy with it , set it to around 5, whcih makes the cloth higher res.
run the sim again for about 10 secs and it should look smooth
It might be possible to export the model to OBJ, 3d paint it in another app then bring it back the texture ... That would be awesome ... gotta try this further ... (computer's dying tho, most likely won't be able to try it anytime soon ...)
Other small issues with it : no real thickness and only tris. They have been saying for more than a year that they would work on that and ... well, not much !
Mathieu: as said just use cm and export it back as cm and all is fine, their avatars are just borked, if you want higher resolutions, use meter, then particle distance of 5 is so dense it will eat your ram in no time
But as long as the imprt and export values are synched, everything is just fine
@pior, yeah or even placing surfaces directly in 3d and getting the unfold version. like what a lot of people do with real drapery, putting cloth on top, cutting or pinning away till it fits and work clean from this.
What i often enough do is a quick retopo of my avatar with uv seams where i want the seams of the cloth to be and send a snapshot of my resulting uvs to MD and trace new cloth pieces on top.
@MM: yeah the particle distance set down to anything workable (as in ready to reproject and sculpt) is far from realtime, so usually you do the overall appeal with a a density of like 20. then i go in at 10 and tweak it wat roughly 5-10 fps and before i export i do it just as Ruz described.
you can already visualize the stress and strain under the garment rendering style, but it would great to be able to directly manipulate it too
the only way to do that is to scale the pattern horizontally, but you just get random results
another way to bunch up cloth is to select seams individually and turn on elastic under the 'basic' menu.
better than nothing but again not that predictable
pior - yeah wasn't really thinking about that guy looking like bruice willis ha ha
it's not a bad piece overall.
so far i am finding this mainly useful as reference than anything else. hopefully MD3 will have more features or control to pull me in further.
I think the trousers work best so far
How do you subdivide the default avatars, if that's possible?
How do you make a symmetrical pose without having to eyeball it? Can you save poses?
Also, is it possible to remove the high-heels on the default female avatars?
Built this shirt the other night in like 2-3 hours. Speaks well for the program that its that intuitive.
The buttons I needed a tutorial for, since there are no fasteners like that in the program natively.
They're just an internal circle line on each shirt piece, sewn together, and a larger circle piece stitched to the exterior so it forms a little bubble. (I wanted a dome like button)
Nicely done crease lines MM!
the only place where it lack is the simulation speed at high resolution. sometimes i need to test a pattern in 1-2 particle distance for sharper more detailed folds but that that can get severely laggy.
btw, MD3 open beta is out till Aug 15th. no quad support yet but there are some good improvements to the fabric\material assignment system.
you cannot edit avatars, you can import your custom avatar as i did in the examples above.
do you mean asymmetrical ? if so, you can just import custom avatar for that. there is also motion support but i think you would need to upgrade your current license to add animation support.
as mentioned above, no you cannot edit avatars as far as i know. just import your own avatar .obj files.
Although for what I have used it so far (Robes), it's great. Especially because it gives real insight on how much "cloth" do you need for later ingame cloth sim, to avoid big strencthing issues.
In specific the Metal Gear's jacket. If I try to make anything close to that level of detail MD gets really, really slow.
My machine is better than the recommended settings, and it can't work that fast at all.
Thanks.
Of course it's still way faster than sculpting all the wrinkles manually, but it just seems to me that I should be getting better performance
Is it RAM dependent or is it utilising the GPU/CPU?
Its a cool program so far, and the results look pretty decent (when I can get it to work
i am playing arround with marvelous designer and i was wondering how you guys keep this forms so clean ? i mean do you have symmetrical options that you can turn on patterns? i cant achieve symmetrical patterns, so they are messy
Thank you
EDIT: also would like to know if there's the ability to add material properties and different tension, e.g. Different folds for a top made of cotton or leather.
1) Snap tools are wonky. Can't get verts to snap to grid even though all 3 grid settings are turned on. Even if I could just select verts and straighten them would be be ok. Not possible?
2) My rearrange (reset) patterns function is screwed. It sort of resets but is all in the wrong place!
I really want to use this software
I've seen it mentioned that you duplicate a piece and sew them together? This is what I have been attempting so far without much success. Maybe I just need to keep tooling around.