Soda Machine

hhtun

Hey there,
I'm learning 3d as a passion and this is my first thread in polycount. My aim is basically to remember 3d techniques that I learned last years, that's why I decided to make this simple object : a Soda Machine.
This is my fat ugly sketches :poly124: :


This is as far the final model :



I unwrapped the model and make an AO map and I optimized it and now I'm making textures :


this is how texture actually looks :


For the moment I'm looking for a texture of a coke to fill the blue colour then it's time to make normal and specular map.

I'm waiting for your support and critique. Thanks!

hhtun

I almost finished the work, I finished textures and I make a reflective material with a reflection map. I didn't use a normal map since I don't see it's too important in this object. Now it's time for a little tweaks and optimization. I'm waiting for your critique !!










Enjoy!

Ootrick

Cool decal!

TRIANGULATE! AHH !!

Your geometry needs improvement, All those faces with open verts need to be connected, or your in for some not-so-much fun later. apply triangulation or turn it to and editable mesh and you will see what I mean.

Smooth out those sharp corners! don't be afraid to use geo.

Other then that, some basic texture work like a slight gradient from top to bottom and a normal and spec map will go a long way too.

thepapercut

Ootrick said all that really needs to be said. Besides that I like the designs for the textures you got. Push it the extra mile and it'll be fantastic piece!

hhtun

Thanks Ootrick and thepapercut for your precious advice which is helping me a lot but makes me wonder about many new things.
My first question is when to "triangulate" an object and when we don't need to ? because I see many wireframe screens in polycount for example with no triangulation and frankly I don't see why I need to make those new edges !!

So if I understood well what you said about triangulation that's what I have done : I turn some triangles in order to optimize this object then I selected all my vertex and I connect them and that's what I've got :
Is it OK ??




Now it's time to get rid of those hard-edged corners. After "triangulating" the model, I tried to chamfer those edges but the result wasn't acceptable at all.
So I returned to my old model with no triangulation and chamfered the edges. Then my UVW map changed.
So is there any way to chamfer edges without changing UVW ?


I hope I didn't annoy you and thanks for everything.
I'm waiting for your reply

leleuxart

Technically, most engines will triangulate your mesh for you and the FBX exporter will too. It's usually a good idea to triangulate before exporting, so you can see any shading errors if they do pop up. But, what Ootrick was saying is that you have faces with more than 4 sides, or n-gons. N-Gons are usually bad because they can cause shading errors in the engine. In your UDK shots, see the dark line going through 'soda' from the top left to the bottom right, just above the cash slot? That's from UDK triangulating your n-gons. The entire bottom of the mesh has the same shading problem as well.

I'm pretty sure Max and Maya both have issues with creating loops through triangles, so I usually work in quads(4 sided faces), then triangulate before I export. You don't have to triangulate if you work in quads and don't have any n-gons, it's just a good habit.

Now, onto the actual art :poly121:

I personally see a benefit to using a normal map. All of those buttons and slots would be sticking out off of the surface of the machine(but not enough to really justify extra tris). I'm not sure if it's just the lighting in your scene, but it looks like you have some lighting information painted into the texture, which isn't the best idea for something realistic or something viewed in the round.

Like Ootrick said, don't be afraid to add more geo. You're at 184, which isn't bad for something like this. You could take it a little further and be okay. Get the mesh back into quads(and fix those n-gons), and bevel some of the edges. Do you have a reference image you're following? Post that too if you have one. It'll help everyone, since there's like a million different styles of soda machines. I hope this helps! :thumbup:

DWalker

The dispenser tray could really use some work. The texture is just an odd gray smudge, and the geometry would let the cans drop straight to the ground. Most soda machines since the '80s have used black plastic for this. Also, add a lip to stop the can - it should be at least the can's radius high.


Finally, you're missing the coin return slot.

Ootrick

hhtun:

when you see models without triangles. and they are NICE models by people who know what they are doing means that the model is either Quads or is a mix of both (lowpoly models). Depending on what your workflow is - You generally don't triangulate anything until your at your low poly, with a nice even geometric High poly to bake from. Generally speaking, you wouldn't use triangles on a high poly object because this makes very nasty smoothing results.

Always remember: A poly has 3 points (triangle) a quad has 4 points (2 triangles).
use quads when making high poly, and when low poly you can use a mix of both. I find keeping quads are fine, unless your making assets for games that require lots of optimization (most mmo, browser, mobile games) You need to show that you can demonstrate good use of geo and as even as possible to have nice even texture resolution with no shading errors. I HIGHLY recommend you fully read and understand this article: http://www.artisaverb.info/Hygiene.html It may take a while for all those sayings, reasonings and examples to set in but trust me, you will thank the author of that article with your life if your a passionate game artist.

hhtun

leleuxart thanks a lot, your explication cleared things in my mind.
I understand that I should follow a quad topology !
So I went to my model and I got rid of every n-gone and immediately I saw a big improvement in lighting quality but the new object looks a little bit ridiculous specially in the top part as you can see here :




Then I tried to make corners smoother but the new smoothing groups looks so bad :



I think that the quad problem is still here ( I really need to experiment with modeling in quads :poly142: ). I think that if the problem persist I will let the corners sharp and work without smoothing.

Actually I did another thing in order to make a better model : I made a new object using high-poly modeling techniques but I don't thing it's the best idea :




To be honest I have no idea about what I could do to make model better ...:poly142:

leleuxart, for the black lines and shading problems I think they basically come from my crappy lighting map so I need to focus on them later.



DWalker thank you too for your suggestion that I will take into consideration just after making my 3d model better :poly124:


Ootrick Thanks a lot for this explication Now I understand Quads and triangles a loooot better.
I'm reading this article now and I will see if I will thank the author with my life ( as well as you) :poly124: :poly124:

Ootrick

Your quaded version is MUCH better. But now we can use different techniques like floating geometry, and we can remove some extra edge loops. Keep at it!! and Keep it clean!

hhtun

I have just a simple question what's your best way to make a hole like the one in right corner, because most of the problems come from this part..
Personally I extruded this part inside the object then I deleted the extra edge in the right and I tweaked some edged manually and there the problems appear !

Obscura

why dont you make a turbosmoothed version for bake?smoothed edges are hard to control without normalmap.use hard edges, or make real highpoly.

hhtun

Hello,
I'm back with a new model with no n-gons at all
I found it really satisfactory except some unnecessary edges.
The difference between the old model and the new one is so obvious as you can see here I have no longer lighting problems :poly129:







and now this how it looks with the AO map :




I'm waiting for your comments, until that I will continue making this work !
Thanks everyone :poly121:

DWalker

Looking much better now.

hhtun

this is how it looks with new textures ( diffuse + spec + normal ):)
I think that the material needs some tweaks!

BertR

The topology of the last one is a lot better that the first ones. It could however - still use some improvements.
Edges like below (the green ones) don't add anything to the silhouette of the model, and will only generate unnecessary triangles when exported.



A topology like this (http://i.imgur.com/sM88ihq.png), is cleaner / has a lower tri-count. It has an edge connected to all corners / non-planar faces, and nothing more. Although the difference in tri's / polys in a fairly simple or lowpoly model like this isn't that much, the difference will get bigger when creating more detailed objects. Besides that, a good understanding of topology shows a bit more professionalism

Hope this helps!

Arod529

hhtun To help keep your UV's on your Editable Poly, check the "Preserve UV's" box under the "Edit Geometry" roll out. You have to pay attention to what you do though. It generally holds up under connect, cut, and chamfer. However, if you delete faces and redraw them, they will be wacky, but the rest of your UV's will hold up. It even works with NURMS subdivision, as long as you use the one integrated into the Editable Poly, not a modifier.

Ootrick Nice link, looks like a good read.