I thought programmers just used existing libraries, modified them a bit,then spend the rest of the day on you tube:)
O.O
You are way off my good sir. We go to Dreamincode.net and ask their members to do our homewo... Oh wait. :poly122:
jokes aside; Although it is common to search for sources online it is not always the case because as a programmer you should be able to read your own pseudo code or the roughed out logical diagrams made by you or given to you by the project manager. This has nothing to do with us being in the dark. Once you understand it, even though it requires critical thinking and massive problem solving skills, it doesnt mean that you cant listen to music or you must be glued to the chair, we can have a bit of a breather and have fun coding. Standard libraries are there to support the basic coding we do unless we are really lost. We do have to make and implement the other libraries and templates.
So moral of the story, not all of us are freakin scary.
you should not talk bad about programmers here. they read it an it just needs 2 seconds to make your art pipline a nightmare.
but serious, programmers are not introverted or impolite.
its just programming is a very brain consuming tasks, and one has to remember stuff or write notes all the time and when you talk to a programmer, he atleast forgets 3 important things, which takes about half an hour to remember again, so talking to a programmer while programming is very annoying and assumend being told not to ask questions also very rude.
everytime someone talks to me while im concentrating on code, usually i devour that perosn in my mind, but i can hold back and just say WHAT? i told you not to aks me questions while im coding!. most of the time i cam down shortly after, answer the question and surf the internet for a few hours, befcause i totally forgot what i was doing.
edit: also i may be one of the scary ones :P
but when doing something else its usually save to talk to programmers
I'm a game artist in a small game company. There are a lot of generalisations going on here and it doesn't seem to be as much the case in my work place.
The artists in my work are very introverted and quiet when compared to the programmers who also seem to have a bigger ego in some ways. Ironically their room is the brightest. There is more sunlight for the programmers than the artists! (sadly for us lol)
Speaking of ego, one recently quit because he was tired of taking scrap coding and making it work. An artist recently quit just because she felt like she wasn't doing well enough.
I know it took me a little while to get over my ego when I joined (my first job!) but that went away with my realisation of how important feedback was no matter who it comes from.
The programmers are always yakking back and fourth and when one of them discovers a funny bug, there's a very unsettling uproar of laughter... so no.. not all programmers are introverted like has been said at nausium at least not compared so some of us artists. I sometimes speak to the programmers and they receive me well. I spoke to one about a thing he was working on that I liked the look of and we talked at length about it.
I think I'm possibly less likely to strike up a conversation about a single bit of work even with my best friend who I work next to unless it's to give each other feedback.
The artists in my work are very introverted and quiet when compared to the programmers who also seem to have a bigger ego in some ways. Ironically their room is the brightest. There is more sunlight for the programmers than the artists! (sadly for us lol)
as a programmer you dont need a calibrated screen and no dark room XD
Jeez, didn't know this thread would be such a mess... my intentions were more of a joke than anything else. If anyone got offended, just deal with it! :P
Also I believe that there are selfish artists and designers out there too, but this is a forum for artists, not for programmers/designers, we all know how artists are, proud of themselves, show off sometimes, fancy, hippies, etc. So, why not talk about programmers for a bit? If you are a programmer, and you are on this forum, you are my friend! because you have the right interest of getting with artists, on top of that I am sure you are open minded and able to do things on the tech side that some programmers can't see how good it could be for the industry. So don't get offended for what I said, as I pointed out "some", not all!
That's a bit weird, having been pretty introvert and taken years to become social there's no energy being taken or given, good social encounters makes people happy, makes the endorphin go around!
Simply put: when we cannot relax we become exhausted, and when we relax we become rested.
No one is stealing anyone's energy.
Interesting point, maybe there aren't two types of people but just some that recharge quicker than others?
I'm not sure if it's stealing energy so much as "interrupting the effort to recharge"?
For me personally, it can be a bit like having someone wake you up just to ask you if you want some coffee.
"Umm no thanks I'm good, trying to sleep".
I don't walk away from a social setting bummed out that its over and jones'in for more, I'm not going to get depressed if I don't have a regular fix. But I know people who are like that.
I walk away thinking it was fun, but draining and need to recharge. I do that by being alone, working on some solitary activity, thinking something over or even meditating (clearing my mind of thought). Having someone interrupt that is annoying but I understand other people's need for social interaction, even if it seems trivial to what I'm doing.
It's like the audible buzz from a party, concert or a long flight sitting next to the engines, that sticks with me long after its over and I need some quite time to clear it out so I can think straight again.
Of course it's nice when someone sees the "do not disturb" sign on the door and realizes that I'm recharging. But some people see that sign and it means something else. They assume that I'm jones'in to join the happy sunshine chorus line 24-7. The only reason I'm not is because of this very boring thing that I'm stuck doing. They want to free me from my terrible condition, not realizing that its the thing that is actually making all of the signing and dancing possible and that I enjoy it...
So maybe there aren't two types of people, but just different ways people recharge and that some people take longer to recharge than others. Maybe the way they recharge would separate the categories again, ha! oh well...
I'll also add that not all social interaction is positive, its a gamble and for people who take longer to recharge it might not be worth it.
Mark, that's a philosophy I can totally buy into. I also believe that people will shift around non-linear scale in that regard. It's not a simple binary definition, it's never that easy to categorise people.
they actually don't live their lives in a normal way
Sorry but, what the fuck is normal?
Your life is yours, my life is mine. I choose to live it as I wish and if you don't like it, piss off. If you want to live a life of "needed" experiences or goals pushed on you by others, go ahead. I'll do as I wish.
I have social anxiety disorder and get panic attacks sometimes, too. I don't mind socializing but it's tiresome. It's extremely stressful for me to meet new people. I like to just IM people online, since I can respond in my own time.
Engineers often have many quirks because they're off in a logical world, whereas artists see things artistically. Those things don't always mesh, socially. I know quite a few engineers that are fucking cool as hell and we discuss games, scale model building, cars and all kinds of shit. On the other side, I've tried talking to artists who just want to discuss porn. Each person is unique, based on an infinite number of different experiences in their life. Unless they are causing harm to themselves or others, you have no right to downtalk their behavior.
Your life is yours, my life is mine. I choose to live it as I wish and if you don't like it, piss off. If you want to live a life of "needed" experiences or goals pushed on you by others, go ahead. I'll do as I wish.
Joshua, I meant some, not all of them. When I mean normal I mean go out, hang out, have friends, have a life outside of work, go to a friends house on the weekend, have a dinner, chill with the wife for a moment. etc... I'm NOT judging, I'm just pointing out what I see of SOME developers, not necessarily generalizing programmers, because some geeky artists and designers are like that too, but in majority programmers. I wanted to get people's perspective about the subject, not judgement of what I'm looking at every day!!!
On the other side, I've tried talking to artists who just want to discuss porn.
yeah our Character artists too look at naked gals all day long. damn smut... just kidding, just kidding....I'll go back in the programmers cave and turn the lights off so nobody sees my geek glasses and the dandruff
By stating what you think is normal you are inherently making a judgement.
Making a judgement, I would be saying they are wrong, I'm not stating that, I'm saying they are different in their ways. You guys get too serious here, jeez.
Yeah man, I believe you, at Nerve, I had an awesome experience with the programmers there, they had a great way of comming and talking to the artists and designers that I've never seen to be true. I guess it's just at where I work now it's not the same. But again, I'll revisit what I said, it's not ALL of em, it's just some
might just be your studio. some places have weird people. and like with many stereotypes there's some truth in it deep below. anyway, embrace the difference. it would be boring if everyone is just the same...
Could be stupid, but we got into a good discussion, but let me iterate:
A subject we were talking about here is being introverted, in the business we are into, we can't be 100% introverted, I actually don't get why a company would hire someone that is extreme introverted, as in a professional manner, we all need to interact with each other to solve each others issues and get tasks done. Again, I'm not talking only about programmers. But if I am a lead, and I have to hire someone for my team, I won't get someone that can't talk/interact with different teams, communication skills for me is the most important skill, even more then knowing the best of the skills, since the open minded artist/programmer/designer can learn it fast, be taught and teach others later on. Although we gotta be careful about the show off/selfish individuals.
Mark sent that comic about introverted people. Why would someone have to work with someone that is introverted to help him doing his job? Shouldn't we all be opened in the first time we met? So that means the guy get hired, and the whole company have to work around him to help him get with each other? Yes, it might not be easy for the person to learn how to interact, but in a day by day case, no one's prepared for such thing. That could be done at home, or with the family, but shouldn't have to be done at work. At least in my opinion. That's the reason of having personal interviews!
From all I talked in the first post, I should have mentioned about interaction more than anything else, which is usually what it bothers me with programmers. Hopefully this is just an issue where I work at. (although it has been in other places).
There are exceptions, like Joshua said, like panic attacks (which I have), depression and other issues that can affect the progress of work although they are not considered a problem, more of a health issue, and that is completely fine.
Remember the part about judgement? Above is a perfect example of such. It is also a judgement call to say one thing is normal compared to another.
Anyhow, introversion can be a health issue. That isn't always some black and white choice that can be changed at home. You are basically implying from what you wrote that people should be ready and willing to communicate in the way you think this industry needs according to your own experience. By your statement of supposed logic, team members should be extroverted to a certain extent to conform to your standard of communication in order to be effective.
What gives you or another that right to make that call? Are people with these health issues SOL if they attempted to work in the industry as you see it?
Edit: Before getting on me that I am taking it too seriously. You are the one who brought it further with that followup. You could have left it with Kwramm's response.
oXYnary - Blah man, just chill, yes you got it too serious. I didn't make any call. Don't get this shit personal man, really... we are just talking about personalities here.
edit: Great video Ben, I liked at the end when she talks about the suitcase and how hard is for anyone to open it. I dig also the idea of having your own space of quietness to get to know yourself.
Just stumbled across this thread, I figure hey I have 2 cents why not toss them in right here!
What's amazing to me is how almost every post in this thread is so far off from the original intent or at least the intent I got from the original post; which I read as follows: "man I have had some weird interactions during my time in game development, here is one of them. Hey why not share your's." Is that really so bad? To have a laugh about something odd that has happened? I think if we could all have a bit more fun and let more things slide and say more things we really want to say, we could all be happier people, and that's the kind of two way street I wanna be on!
I really don't think BUGO meant to persecute anyone. He just pointed something out and is that really a reason to persecute him? I say share your anecdote if you have one, read and enjoy if you don't. I personally don't have one so I guess my post falls under the "hypocritical rant" section...
Replies
O.O
You are way off my good sir. We go to Dreamincode.net and ask their members to do our homewo... Oh wait. :poly122:
jokes aside; Although it is common to search for sources online it is not always the case because as a programmer you should be able to read your own pseudo code or the roughed out logical diagrams made by you or given to you by the project manager. This has nothing to do with us being in the dark. Once you understand it, even though it requires critical thinking and massive problem solving skills, it doesnt mean that you cant listen to music or you must be glued to the chair, we can have a bit of a breather and have fun coding. Standard libraries are there to support the basic coding we do unless we are really lost. We do have to make and implement the other libraries and templates.
So moral of the story, not all of us are freakin scary.
You will have more "aaaaaah" moments then "WHAAAAAAAA"
but serious, programmers are not introverted or impolite.
its just programming is a very brain consuming tasks, and one has to remember stuff or write notes all the time and when you talk to a programmer, he atleast forgets 3 important things, which takes about half an hour to remember again, so talking to a programmer while programming is very annoying and assumend being told not to ask questions also very rude.
everytime someone talks to me while im concentrating on code, usually i devour that perosn in my mind, but i can hold back and just say WHAT? i told you not to aks me questions while im coding!. most of the time i cam down shortly after, answer the question and surf the internet for a few hours, befcause i totally forgot what i was doing.
edit: also i may be one of the scary ones :P
but when doing something else its usually save to talk to programmers
The artists in my work are very introverted and quiet when compared to the programmers who also seem to have a bigger ego in some ways. Ironically their room is the brightest. There is more sunlight for the programmers than the artists! (sadly for us lol)
Speaking of ego, one recently quit because he was tired of taking scrap coding and making it work. An artist recently quit just because she felt like she wasn't doing well enough.
I know it took me a little while to get over my ego when I joined (my first job!) but that went away with my realisation of how important feedback was no matter who it comes from.
The programmers are always yakking back and fourth and when one of them discovers a funny bug, there's a very unsettling uproar of laughter... so no.. not all programmers are introverted like has been said at nausium at least not compared so some of us artists. I sometimes speak to the programmers and they receive me well. I spoke to one about a thing he was working on that I liked the look of and we talked at length about it.
I think I'm possibly less likely to strike up a conversation about a single bit of work even with my best friend who I work next to unless it's to give each other feedback.
as a programmer you dont need a calibrated screen and no dark room XD
Also I believe that there are selfish artists and designers out there too, but this is a forum for artists, not for programmers/designers, we all know how artists are, proud of themselves, show off sometimes, fancy, hippies, etc. So, why not talk about programmers for a bit? If you are a programmer, and you are on this forum, you are my friend! because you have the right interest of getting with artists, on top of that I am sure you are open minded and able to do things on the tech side that some programmers can't see how good it could be for the industry. So don't get offended for what I said, as I pointed out "some", not all!
I'm not sure if it's stealing energy so much as "interrupting the effort to recharge"?
For me personally, it can be a bit like having someone wake you up just to ask you if you want some coffee.
"Umm no thanks I'm good, trying to sleep".
I don't walk away from a social setting bummed out that its over and jones'in for more, I'm not going to get depressed if I don't have a regular fix. But I know people who are like that.
I walk away thinking it was fun, but draining and need to recharge. I do that by being alone, working on some solitary activity, thinking something over or even meditating (clearing my mind of thought). Having someone interrupt that is annoying but I understand other people's need for social interaction, even if it seems trivial to what I'm doing.
It's like the audible buzz from a party, concert or a long flight sitting next to the engines, that sticks with me long after its over and I need some quite time to clear it out so I can think straight again.
Of course it's nice when someone sees the "do not disturb" sign on the door and realizes that I'm recharging. But some people see that sign and it means something else. They assume that I'm jones'in to join the happy sunshine chorus line 24-7. The only reason I'm not is because of this very boring thing that I'm stuck doing. They want to free me from my terrible condition, not realizing that its the thing that is actually making all of the signing and dancing possible and that I enjoy it...
So maybe there aren't two types of people, but just different ways people recharge and that some people take longer to recharge than others. Maybe the way they recharge would separate the categories again, ha! oh well...
I'll also add that not all social interaction is positive, its a gamble and for people who take longer to recharge it might not be worth it.
Sorry but, what the fuck is normal?
Your life is yours, my life is mine. I choose to live it as I wish and if you don't like it, piss off. If you want to live a life of "needed" experiences or goals pushed on you by others, go ahead. I'll do as I wish.
I have social anxiety disorder and get panic attacks sometimes, too. I don't mind socializing but it's tiresome. It's extremely stressful for me to meet new people. I like to just IM people online, since I can respond in my own time.
Engineers often have many quirks because they're off in a logical world, whereas artists see things artistically. Those things don't always mesh, socially. I know quite a few engineers that are fucking cool as hell and we discuss games, scale model building, cars and all kinds of shit. On the other side, I've tried talking to artists who just want to discuss porn. Each person is unique, based on an infinite number of different experiences in their life. Unless they are causing harm to themselves or others, you have no right to downtalk their behavior.
Joshua, I meant some, not all of them. When I mean normal I mean go out, hang out, have friends, have a life outside of work, go to a friends house on the weekend, have a dinner, chill with the wife for a moment. etc... I'm NOT judging, I'm just pointing out what I see of SOME developers, not necessarily generalizing programmers, because some geeky artists and designers are like that too, but in majority programmers. I wanted to get people's perspective about the subject, not judgement of what I'm looking at every day!!!
yeah our Character artists too look at naked gals all day long. damn smut... just kidding, just kidding....I'll go back in the programmers cave and turn the lights off so nobody sees my geek glasses and the dandruff
Making a judgement, I would be saying they are wrong, I'm not stating that, I'm saying they are different in their ways. You guys get too serious here, jeez.
lol, should I really? I don't :P I guess I like a little bit of honesty and transparency.
A subject we were talking about here is being introverted, in the business we are into, we can't be 100% introverted, I actually don't get why a company would hire someone that is extreme introverted, as in a professional manner, we all need to interact with each other to solve each others issues and get tasks done. Again, I'm not talking only about programmers. But if I am a lead, and I have to hire someone for my team, I won't get someone that can't talk/interact with different teams, communication skills for me is the most important skill, even more then knowing the best of the skills, since the open minded artist/programmer/designer can learn it fast, be taught and teach others later on. Although we gotta be careful about the show off/selfish individuals.
Mark sent that comic about introverted people. Why would someone have to work with someone that is introverted to help him doing his job? Shouldn't we all be opened in the first time we met? So that means the guy get hired, and the whole company have to work around him to help him get with each other? Yes, it might not be easy for the person to learn how to interact, but in a day by day case, no one's prepared for such thing. That could be done at home, or with the family, but shouldn't have to be done at work. At least in my opinion. That's the reason of having personal interviews!
From all I talked in the first post, I should have mentioned about interaction more than anything else, which is usually what it bothers me with programmers. Hopefully this is just an issue where I work at. (although it has been in other places).
There are exceptions, like Joshua said, like panic attacks (which I have), depression and other issues that can affect the progress of work although they are not considered a problem, more of a health issue, and that is completely fine.
Anyhow, introversion can be a health issue. That isn't always some black and white choice that can be changed at home. You are basically implying from what you wrote that people should be ready and willing to communicate in the way you think this industry needs according to your own experience. By your statement of supposed logic, team members should be extroverted to a certain extent to conform to your standard of communication in order to be effective.
What gives you or another that right to make that call? Are people with these health issues SOL if they attempted to work in the industry as you see it?
Edit: Before getting on me that I am taking it too seriously. You are the one who brought it further with that followup. You could have left it with Kwramm's response.
edit: Great video Ben, I liked at the end when she talks about the suitcase and how hard is for anyone to open it. I dig also the idea of having your own space of quietness to get to know yourself.
We call them brainfarts round my way.
What's amazing to me is how almost every post in this thread is so far off from the original intent or at least the intent I got from the original post; which I read as follows: "man I have had some weird interactions during my time in game development, here is one of them. Hey why not share your's." Is that really so bad? To have a laugh about something odd that has happened? I think if we could all have a bit more fun and let more things slide and say more things we really want to say, we could all be happier people, and that's the kind of two way street I wanna be on!
I really don't think BUGO meant to persecute anyone. He just pointed something out and is that really a reason to persecute him? I say share your anecdote if you have one, read and enjoy if you don't. I personally don't have one so I guess my post falls under the "hypocritical rant" section...