Vector Textures?

Fuiosg

I see this topic periodically come up, and I've done some google searches but I've never really seen a satisfying response.

From what I've read, raster-based images take up more memory but can be displayed fast, whereas vectors take up little memory but supposedly take a longer time to calculate.

My question is, will vectors eventually find their way into game graphics? It seems that more and more detail is being put into the models/normal mapping rather than the textures, but I understand you still need that grittiness that only raster images can really do quickly. Though I still think it would benefit a variety of games, like in the cartoon/anime style.

Thoughts?

Rabbid_Cheeze

http://www.valvesoftware.com/publications/2007/SIGGRAPH2007_AlphaTestedMagnification.pdf

It can be done already.

Fuiosg

Rabbid_Cheeze: Very interesting, don't know how I missed that.

Adam L. Gray

Oh, this.. Hmm, think UDK uses a similar technique for lighting at least... not sure about alpha borders. As for the textures in themselves *shrugs*

JamesWild

Model it and use vertex paint/colour if you want vector images on your models, no other way. Been experimenting with it lately, can get decent results, but of course it complicates modelling and emphasizes the need for LOD.

JacqueChoi

Use the paint job creator in the latest Forza

Brendan

Vectors are in today's games, just not as 'traditional' textures. They're usually in there for use in some math-based operation for a specific effect; reflections, fresnel, screen-space shaders like SSAO and screen-space reflections (calculating screen normal, reflection vectors, distance to next 'collision', etc).

What you could be looking for are pixel shaders that use vector-based code. I think there was a good one where they'd render a pool ball as a billboarded plane, then use vector calculations to work out a pixel-perfect sphere outline and per-pixel normal.

You could, in theory, use vectors to define patterns or masks, but you'd have to code the equation into the pixel shader, and anything other than a simple outline or mask would be too complex.

Muzzoid

WELL, You can just use a svg rastirizer to render out bitmap textures on loading, so you get the filesize benefits, but you also have the extra loading times.

Also flash games (i know its 2d but its a great example)

SurlyBird

Muzz, that's what I'm getting by using Substance Designer. It has SVG support built right into it and the tools are really good. So if you want to work mostly in vectors, you're good to go. The added benefit is that the vector art you make in SD can be scaled (up or down) inside the published Substance archive inside game engines (Unity and UDK) with no need to go back into the authoring tool.

You can make vector art within SD or you can import SVG files from other application, like inkscape (pretty cheap as in free) or Illustrator, etc.

3devo

why not store the texture in a model if im not being too obtuse. admittedly with this would lose most benefits as complexity increased in the texture but in theory you would get the same benefits of vector graphics(ie scaling) and raster graphics(ie speed) and it wouldn't involve anything as difficult as trying to squeeze vector graphics into a raster engine.

TL;DR you could probably use polygons for that. no need to reinvent the wheel

JamesWild

Anyone used tesselation with vertex painted polygons yet? Curious to know how well it works for curved vector graphics

Fuiosg

Forgive me for dragging this up, but I just don't see why there's such a lack of interest in really clear textures with low-memory usage.

A lot of games use hi-res textures and it actually takes away from the overall visual message, IMO, they aren't really necessary. If not vectors could we upscale images? As in small resolution images that are upscaled in the engine to look good at any distance, almost like this? http://web.archive.org/web/20070717064839/www.hiend3d.com/hq4x.html

Sorry if I sound ignorant, just that there's so many other strides in game technology it feels like how textures are dealt with has stagnated in comparison.

m4dcow

3Ds Max actually just added support for using a number of types of vector files as texture maps.
http://docs.autodesk.com/3DSMAX/16/ENU/3ds-Max-Help/files/GUID-F19394AA-63E3-4B16-8780-5D2485E2B9F7.htm

JamesWild

HQ4X is great for pixel art, but very bad for anything else. Try playing say Ultima IV with it; the very noisy, airbrushy graphics in still image slides look poor with the filter though the main game looks great.

I guess if it matches your game's style, go for it! Judging by the algorithm breakdown on the HQ3X page, it might be a little expensive, but should be possible to implement on a GPU. I think a PS1 emulator even had an option for it before, though it may have employed CPU preprocessing.

jenagrey8585

OMG this is amazing i dont know why i miss this till now

Richard Kain

The problem is just one of inertia. The industry has been using 2D texture maps for so long that there isn't as much interest in a game engine focused on using vector graphics. And in order to implement this sort of thing, you would have to work it into an engine at a very basic level. It's not the sort of feature that you just tack-on after the fact.

There's also the fact that vector graphics are a better fit for certain artistic styles. If you are going for bold colors and clean lines, vectors are your best friend. If you need photo samples or a more "gritty" style, vectors aren't going to work. There's a place for this sort of approach, but it isn't nearly as "general purpose," and so most engine developers don't bother.

passerby

may be of a little interest, not exactly vector graphics, but a cool idea that does work with some art styles.

http://simonschreibt.blogspot.de/2013/03/homeworld-backgrounds.html

Fuiosg

passerby wrote: »

may be of a little interest, not exactly vector graphics, but a cool idea that does work with some art styles.

http://simonschreibt.blogspot.de/2013/03/homeworld-backgrounds.html

quite interesting passerby, thanks for sharing. Neat blog