Advice on a start up company.
polycounter lvl 13
Hey guys, i'm looking for a different perspective on a current dilema I'm having.
A few friends from highschool have this start up game studio, out of one of their houses, they have made a handful of games, but have only recently started to make some money.
And the figures sound decent from the type of game they are making, which happens to be a minecraft clone.
They are offering me full time paid work, if i can help them push their game out the doors quicker by doing art, but they primarily want characters and monster all low rez art, and i've spent a decent part of my life training myself for a next gen pipeline. so its all very alien to me and i 1. dont really have the passion for the work they want me to make or 2. the skills.
but they want to move more AA after this game.
The problem is, i have a really sturdy, well paying reliable full time job at a supermarket, but i fucking hate it there.
I'm not sure if i should take the chance with their company and hope they move onto a project that requires my skill sets and puts food on the table.
TL;DR - Got offered paid work for a start up company, but have to help them finish up their current project so they can make more money to hire me. pretty much work for free to get my foot in the door, on a project that i dont have skills for or like
what do you guys think, anyone working for a start up that can give me some warnings or some encouragement?
A few friends from highschool have this start up game studio, out of one of their houses, they have made a handful of games, but have only recently started to make some money.
And the figures sound decent from the type of game they are making, which happens to be a minecraft clone.
They are offering me full time paid work, if i can help them push their game out the doors quicker by doing art, but they primarily want characters and monster all low rez art, and i've spent a decent part of my life training myself for a next gen pipeline. so its all very alien to me and i 1. dont really have the passion for the work they want me to make or 2. the skills.
but they want to move more AA after this game.
The problem is, i have a really sturdy, well paying reliable full time job at a supermarket, but i fucking hate it there.
I'm not sure if i should take the chance with their company and hope they move onto a project that requires my skill sets and puts food on the table.
TL;DR - Got offered paid work for a start up company, but have to help them finish up their current project so they can make more money to hire me. pretty much work for free to get my foot in the door, on a project that i dont have skills for or like
what do you guys think, anyone working for a start up that can give me some warnings or some encouragement?
Replies
If they're friends, you could do a bit of freebie work on the side to help out and hope that they've got enough money in the future to actually pay you.
I wouldn't quit a stable job to go work for free on a mobile/indie startup.
"We would like to hire you but we don't have any money how about you work for free until we find some."
That's a shitty way to run a business and I'm not sure that speaks well to their organizational skills. Even if they where people I knew and trusted I wouldn't count on it working out. If you can do it in your spare time then it might be worth it, but doing it full time as if it was a paying job and just not getting paid, that's harsh.
The only thing setting off warning bells is that their next game is going to be higher spec
Do you still live at home, or are you on your own?
Regardless of whether they will pay you or not, if you it gets you creating more, and building your skills, since you don't have the job you want now, you'll be building a stronger foundation towards one later.
I feel the longer i'm there the further its pushing my game art career away.
It's defiantly a step in the right direction this start up company, and i agree with what Justin said, that doing low spec art would be more beneficial than stacking shelves but i'm no pro at what i actually enjoy, environmental art, i'm afraid by getting stuck into low res art at such a crucial learning stage of my environment art skills i'll loose some of that momentum and make it harder for me to land that dream job.
@Jason, their current project is making enough money to pay the 2 lead devs a decent wage a week, and thats just off the "beta" of their game, just got the go ahead from Microsoft to release it on the windows 8 market, and they expect profits to go up, at thats where my pay will come from, it seems solid enough, but shit can still always go wrong.
@justin why does it alarm you that they are jumping from low spec to next gen? if i may?
I just assumed they hadn't because they where looking for that quick fix game so they could hire some artists.
@reverendK apparently only a few months, i've seen their asset list and its not that big, someone with skill in low spec could smash it easy.
Honestly if i knew they where going to be able to pay me a sturdy wage (enough to pay rent and eat and some play money) for a decent amount of time, it would be a no brainier, but if their project flops i've thrown away a reliable full time job. and thats probably the only thing holding me back.
i'm just ranting now.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
You want to take the path that will leave you with the least regrets. If you'll kick yourself for not being more daring and taking a stab at your dream more than if you go for it and it flops then its probably worth it.
I used to work a graveyard shift and even at 4 10hr days with 3 days off it was rough. It was semi-related and it helped me get where I am so I'm glad I stuck it out, but if it wasn't related I probably would have chased just about anything that was. Age is starting to creep up on me, having a family and already having a job doing related things, pushes me greatly toward stability over risk.
And i know all about the soul-crushing job. I worked as a valet for a few years while I was going to school...i eventually got fired because i was doing too much homework/personal projects at work. as much as it hurt financially, it was really kind of a blessing in a lot of ways - and we limped through the money problems alright. I only wish i had actually made that decision myself instead of being forced into it. It's scary, but it usually works out better than you're afraid it might. There's always another job. hopefully.
Conversely, if they are offering paid work up front, then take that, because fuck working in supermarkets.
cost of development
So, starting with the assumption that they would not make good on their promise on hiring you or paying you anything whatsoever (whether because of being dicks or because the reality of business is harsher than they expect), would you benefit from joining their project more than you would by seeking out a mod that you are personally passionate about?
It's not like they're holding the position hostage unless you join them now for unpaid work. Even if you turn them down for now, when the time rolls around where they CAN pay you they should still be just as interested in bringing you onboard at that point. Unless they are unreasonable tools, in which case screw 'em anyway.
Yes this is a huge red flag. If they're scraping to get by with low end casual games, there is absolutely no way they can afford to support the long production cycles and massive resources it takes to make a full on higher end game.
If they have a plan to say, make a dozen or so more small games, and then make a dozen or so medium-sized games, and then move onto something AAA when they get to that point, that might be almost reasonable. As a long term plan of course. Jumping right into an AAA title after they've had some small success with the casual games market is suicide.
Not to mention, from a business perspective it makes no sense. Why build a product and do all the work to establish yourself in one market, then throw that away and try and move into another.
"Hey guys, we made a car and it didn't suck!"
"Awesome! Now let's make a cruise ship!"
Also, my "steady job"... rather, an internship, is bottoming out. I got news that all new hires/ interns are going to be kicked out by the end of the month if something ground-breaking doesn't happen. Hell, the company is signed up for a long-term contract with another company and is getting more companies to work with it as well, yet there still isn't enough money.
If it's not even the type of art you enjoy making, or feel competent in, why bother? That's not going to make you happy. And no pay check isn't going to add any happiness to the mix.
My advice is continue working on the art you enjoy and want to make as a career. At the same time start hunting for a job that might provide you a better schedule to not leave you drained and exhausted - which of course isn't ideal for creating good art to round out a portfolio.
^^This. They should build into your contract what % you will be entitled to from each sale. Especially for this unpaid first project. If it works out they should offer you then a way to become a owner. If you mention co-op and they frown, run far far away.
Too many small startups have a top down mentality versus a peer system thinking that if it works for the big boys, it will work for them.
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Cons:
-don't like the project
-don't have the proper skillset
-no pay
-company is not self-sufficient