Marmoset Toolbag: User input for next major revision
mod
Hello internet people.
We are currently in the early development stages for the next major revision of Marmoset Toolbag. We’re working on some great new ideas and features that I think you guys will be really excited about. Unfortunately I can’t give any concrete details yet, but we would love to get some user input from polycounters to keep us on track so we’re not developing “in a vacuum”.
User feedback has always been a big part of Marmoset Toolbag, if you guys have the time to share some of your opinions with us that would be awesome.
What we would like to hear from you:
Thanks!
Update:
I'm seeing a lot of people saying "sorry if this has been mentioned" or something to that effect. Don't let this stop you from posting! Think of this thread as more of a poll or a survey, the more people that post and share their opinions the better. The more users we get asking for similar features or improvement the more important we know those suggestions are. Even if you just want to post to quote some else's suggestion, that's great.
We are currently in the early development stages for the next major revision of Marmoset Toolbag. We’re working on some great new ideas and features that I think you guys will be really excited about. Unfortunately I can’t give any concrete details yet, but we would love to get some user input from polycounters to keep us on track so we’re not developing “in a vacuum”.
User feedback has always been a big part of Marmoset Toolbag, if you guys have the time to share some of your opinions with us that would be awesome.
What we would like to hear from you:
- Which feature(s) of Marmoset Toolbag do you find the most useful?
- Which feature(s) or function(s) of Marmoset Toolbag do you think would benefit from a workflow overhaul?
- Which new feature(s) would you like to see in Marmoset Toolbag?
- What do you like least about Marmoset Toolbag?
- If you’ve used the Marmoset Toolbag trial but decided not to purchase, what were the main reasons for that choice?
Thanks!
Update:
I'm seeing a lot of people saying "sorry if this has been mentioned" or something to that effect. Don't let this stop you from posting! Think of this thread as more of a poll or a survey, the more people that post and share their opinions the better. The more users we get asking for similar features or improvement the more important we know those suggestions are. Even if you just want to post to quote some else's suggestion, that's great.
Replies
It would be nice if the materials were automatically reapplied to the correct chunks (as long as the chunk names were the same of course).
Great little program btw
- anisotropic shader - needs a flowmap generator
Which new feature(s) would you like to see in Marmoset Toolbag?
- shader for glass/see-through material with additive highlights
What do you like least about Marmoset Toolbag?
- that i can't import and manage (rename/add/remove/re-import) individual mesh-chunks into a scene
-Improve the Skin shader (a mixture of Lamb from nVidia and Blended Normals should do the trick for DX9 at least).
-Non-Shadowed shaders with a Proxy Mesh for shadow casting (basically, have a smaller, simplified mesh inside the mesh cast the shadows, could make also stuff like glass shader easier to make if the user wants).
-Scene folder and files auto-load (if I move around the files, Marmoset should first load a text file that will auto-load all the files in the folder if they have the same name, can avoid alots of breaking links).
-Have auto-scripts for popular apps that do the export/import process with correct tangents, etc, (same stuff like ZB-Go).
- Support for multi-material meshes, or create chunks automatically based on those multi-materials
- FBX animation support with more than 50 joint influences/mesh limitation
- Or, at least, an updated StoogeExport plugin that supports later versions of Maya, and other animation export workflows for XSI/3ds max
TL;DR: Least amount of work needed from exporting our stuff to importing it in order to get the base textures/shaders working right. Focusing on lighting/rendering and minor tweaks to shaders should be the focus, not re-assigning textures all over the place and preparing meshes for export.
I hope my feedback will be helpful !
The lighting : be able to load quickly a mesh and test some different sets of lighting is really helpful.
The UI in general, I use the toolbag since the free version and even today I spend a lot of time looking for a particular option. I always forgot where are the Normals Maps axis for example. Proper icons/category would help to navigate, currently everything is at the same level.
Feature requests :
-Multi-materials support per chunk/mesh. Currently we are forced to break our meshes per material.
Example :
-Tilling/Panning of textures : being able to change the tiling of a texture (for example changing it to repeat the pattern x2, x4 times), and panning of texture for example to make animated texture (example : a text moving along a sci-fy banner).
-A posing system (like in Overgrowth for example) : this would be cool for character to be able to pose them without needing "classic" bones.
--A checker as a new type of channel mode in the material tab : with the possibility to change the tilling of it. Even if I can do this inside my 3D software, I think it would be faster to setup in marmoset and check a mesh (without needing to load my 3D app for example).
--Possibility to disable the mip-maps/filtering of textures on a shader as suggested here : http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1681736#post1681736
Could be helpful when working on diffuse only meshes (or even for a checker).
Fix needed (for me at least) :
--Material file use full paths, relative paths would be helpful to use/share them. I always avoid them most of the time because of that. I'm working with dropbox and move a lot of files, so once I move a material file my texture are lost.
--Clearing correctly a texture field : currently it only works sometimes and remove the name only. The normal map texture field for example only remove the filename, the texture is still effective on the mesh. I'm obliged to create a dummy and flat normal map texture to erase the previous one.
--Diffuse display : as mentionned here, the "diffuse" slot in the "Render > View" panel doesn't work and give only the default render (with the lighting). I would expect a flat shading with the diffuse only in unlit.
--Improve the tessellation : currently the triangulation of the tessellation give a weird/poor result. Example here where the tessellation is at max and still you have the felling that some geometry is missing :
Its performances. Marmoset run smoothly on high-end PC configuration, but on my poor laptop I can't use it at the same time as Photoshop for example.
That's would be cool to be able to change some settings, such as the number of frame per second maximum (when I'm testing my textures I don't need 60 fps for example).
the way the quixel guys handle it, is really nice
I really agree with this. Its such a pain to re-import a mesh because of this.
In addition I wish I could import multiple meshes to the scene. For example I have a character. Then later I want to add a gun or accessory. I want to be able to just import the gun and not clear the character.
+1
Fingerprint is no-no... after your computer goes down!
Agreed. I recently had to rebuild my computer after a pretty catastrophic failure and decided it wasn't even worth the effort to try and go through transferring the license from a dead machine, so I just shelled out for a new license instead. It was easier, less time-consuming, and just generally less of a headache even if I did have to spend money to do it.
I agree with those saying that materials are kind of a pain to work with. I absolutely hate having to reassign materials if I make a small change to a model or I'm importing a different version of the same model. A drag-and-drop option to assign materials, similar to how you can assign materials with the Max material editor by dragging an existing one onto a part of your model with a specific material ID on it, would be extremely handy.
---
[EDIT] Thinking about something else : is input arguments could be possible ? I like to automate as much as possible my work, and as I did for xNormal with my own script for Maya, I would like to be able to launch and load the toolbag with some command line.
It's not really vital I think, it would be pleasant however (but maybe asking too much work for what it is).
I want to encourage anyone lurking to post! Even if its just to quote/agree with something someone else said. I'm keeping track of everything here and the more people we see suggesting a singular idea the more notice we'll take on our end.
Right, this is one of biggest changes I would like to see as well. (either support for a specific tangent system, or selectable).
+1, also would like to see the synched tangents.
As far as features go, this is pretty common in other programs, and it isn't too hard to fake, but having it built in would be nice.
That's really it for me. I love Marmoset with all my heart, and this is the only feature I've ever wished was there that isn't.
Or, I couldn't find it if it is...... But I'm pretty sure it isn't.
I re-install Windows a lot, sometimes, I currently have Windows 8 RC and still need to upgrade to Pro. Not only that but it's a pain if you want to upgrade (I do yearly) and your hardware changes, even if it is tied to the CPU/Mobo (I'm assuming it is), it's still a pain.
If a program is good, I will give them my money, I love supporting smaller companies as well, I bought Marmoset because you guys said it would support Windows 8 in the next update, so I bought it early.
Another thing I tried just out of curiosity is I downloaded a different .exe for marmoset 1.05, it will actually launch Marmoset in Windows 8, where the one that comes with it does not.
I agree with everyone else on the Multi-Materials, that is essential and something I use a LOT. Why make it more complicated than UDK or Cryengine?
I have noticed that the POM does not work well on surfaces that are at an angle, or at perpendicular to other geo, (or maybe it was displacement)I don't remember but those both gave me issues.
I really enjoy the program overall but here are some things I think would be cool:
Grain in post effects and not that crap Photoshop grain either, the kind that is subtle that you can get in after effects that looks nice but not fake/over the top either.
Maybe a button that will export a selected model to marmoset from max/maya. As well as the textures files if you have them applied in either application.
Have permanent Sky Lighting Presets that you make in the list, I tried adding my own and it wouldn't show up, just let me load it with "open sky"
Maybe better lens flares or something.
Ability to move where the logo is so you can crop it later and have it still be in the image or cropping in veiwport. Sure you could do it later in Photoshop with a png of the logo but why go through the hassle.
Allowing the placement of props for a mini-scene. I feel marmoset is full capable of this, it just needs a material editor, as has been said before that marmoset will be a full game engine in the next super major release. Or I read that somewhere) that if a material editor that could is a little more comprehensive and allows us to assign materials to meshes with ease as well as manipulate meshes. Move, rotate, scale. Like all other engines, it would be really nice for making a mini scene to showcase a character or some crap.
I can imagine that's a pretty tall order but I would like it anyways.
Allow greater amounts of AO, why? Just cause.
A default material that is not pure white.
Settings for tiled textures, allowing you to specify the tiling amount.
Furthermore I agree with the feeling that the interface is not laid out in a remember able manor and I often forget where things are because they just are, well, everywhere, I mean sure I can find it in three seconds but still.
Support for up to 300 trillion polys, I can't stress how important this will be in 15 years when we just import our sculpts into game engines.(just kidding)
I honestly don't know what else I can say without saying "make it a full game engine."
I like how dDo auto-loads textures based on naming conventions. One-click loading instead of having to look for textures one by one. Something similar in Marmo would be handy.
When I update my mesh, Marmoset resets a bunch of settings, including mesh scale and materials. I'd like it to remember those, and apply them where it can.
I would *love* to be able to load animations from an FBX. What I understand as the current animation workflow requires Maya, which I unfortunately don't have.
And synced tangent bases would be luurvely.
--
When my hard drives crashed and I bought a new rig, a mail to Marmoset support got me a new key the following day.
No Multi-Material support and The lack of synced tangents. Anything more than a simple prop for environment work and its just not worth my while.
Originally Posted by Baj Singh
One thing that can be a little annoying, opening a new mesh in Marmoset resets the .mat settings so they have to be reapplied (this is the case when you have a mesh already in the scene or when you auto-reload a mesh).
It would be nice if the materials were automatically reapplied to the correct chunks (as long as the chunk names were the same of course).
Great little program btw
cool program, agreed with the above comments, this fix would make things so much easier.
Gripes:
- Yeah, the reloading of meshes blowing out your material setup is a pain.
- Also it seems to me that Marmo is a lot more sensitive than say UDK to local transform values etc - Meshes come out with wrong placement sometimes.
- Please, please, please add separate texture slots at least for Gloss maps. It's a pain copying to alpha channels for quick viz.
- Synced normals would be great, yes
- Add an option to disable texture filtering and more importantly, mip-mapping
- support for 2nd UV channels
- the god rays look pretty weak
And many of the suggestions in this thread are golden (better performance/fog/grain/more and nicer AO).. also do we really need the .mesh format? can't everything be saved in a .tbag file?
Either way, looking forward to your next releases.. been a proud user of toolbag for at least 2 years now!
Quoting for agreement, I've kinda stopped using toolbag because of the first point. Texture masking (like the ddo system) would be cool (but that would mean another texture and with large resolution can slow down the program quite a bit.
-Reloading new or new versions of meshes
-Handplane -> Marmoset would be fantastic also
A. The multi-blended material channel type, where you can blend two texture sets together
or
B. Matid support for multiple materials per mesh chunk
If its B, how would you like that implemented? Support exporting that data from your 3d app? Selecting faces directly in toolbag and creating matids? Both?
At least for me, I was referring to multiple material definition per chunk (B then), like how game engine support multiple shaders on 1 mesh (material slots in UDK for example). The FBX format support it very well.
Ok cool, that make sense, I'm not sure how many people even really know about/use the PhongDoubleLayerEnivornment thing, which I think of when people say multi material.
In particular: environment reflection based on the angle you are looking at the the surface, shadowed reflections, and perhaps ability to blur it so that you can control how sharp you get the reflections?
Edit:
In general I would say I'm interested in features that make my models look NICE. This is a visualization tool now, not a game engine so I'm more than happy to sacrifice performance for visual fidelity. I currently use Marmoset a lot because it has a balance between workflow speed and image quality, convincing me not to go through the trouble of doing Vray renders. Improve both workflow speed and image quality and I'll never look at another presentation tool.
Referring to B. Not too much of a big deal until you have modular assets with multiple materials that all need to be split and moved around or duplicated. Although when i spend a little time and think about this its likely more of a first impressions problem, but enough of one to have me not delving any deeper into potential processes when i likely should have.
I imagine you could setup a scene in max(or software of choice), with instanced assets/split meshes and just export the lot in one go? which could actually be a pretty nice little workflow for smaller enviro sets.
might just give that a whirl
What if in Marmoset, each texture slot has an option for its alpha to be a map? So I can either use an individual gloss and spec, or I could load my specular with its gloss in alpha and check a box 'Use alpha as [dropdown menu with all possible maps]' Should satisfy all users?
Can't wait for what's coming up next
Yea I agree with this too. I don't think a PS script should be the answer. It would be nice to have the option for either or.
This is small but I just thought of it. Not sure if it has been mentioned yet. I would like to be able to toggle maps on and off without clearing them. For example to see diffuse only without having to change the material or clear the normal map.
each number corresponds the the material id on the mesh, with it's own set of materials just like you can see in this screenshot of the Cryengine material editor:
So say you click the "1", that is your material id one texture. Then two is the material id 2 texture, each with their own values and settings so that way you only need one texture per mesh, and it's assignable and you can have a few separate multi materials if you wanted to make a mini scene. Cryengine really is the best example of this IMO.
It would be kinda of, what I'm suggesting, is that you have the multi material assigned to that mesh IN the mesh list, and when you click it, you get the multi-materials to select from on the left side.
For example, if you had multiple meshes in the scene you could have one assigned to each, or even re-use it on other meshes if you had a little mini scene.
It would be very similar to how Cryengine sets it up since Marmoset and Cryengine have very similar material editors when you compare it to say UDK.
The reason I think it would be better is that it could keep the other side less cluttered and not restrict it to that specific mesh.
So basically, you have a material selection list, each can either be a multi-material, or a single id material (or all can be multi and you can just use one slot if you prefer), and you can select a mesh from the scene or mesh list, and right click apply to selection.
I feel that it would allow people to really use it for small scenes and make life easier in general that way,as it's very clear and functional.
You could have all say, a house, like I have in that material setup in my Cryengine example. I have it all one mesh, and many multi-materials so I can export it and just change the material id's in max, and bang my materials are applied and I don't have to re-adjust my mesh later once the export is live in engine. (if that makes any sense).
I could then have one with all my tileables listed as "house" then let's say I have another mesh that would use the same tileables in that mini scene, I just set that mesh to the material id of the house's tileable I want to use and apply it.
I feel I am not being very clear and if that is the case I can elaborate with images. What I'm really trying to say, is a near clone to Cryengine's material application and listing, with a similar, handling of multi-materials, but in Marmoset.
Not saying it would be perfect but you could import an entire character and only need one material in your list and still cover all your material types from hair, eyes, and cloth, while retaining full control over each material.
I mean maybe I misread what was suggested but this is how I feel about it at least:P
+1
Also It would be great to get rid of the put map (x) in the alpha of map (y), It'd be much better from a workflow perspective to composite the 2 images when they're loaded and hide this step totally.
Ok thanks, I think I get what you're saying. I think it will just come down to trying it out and seeing what works best in use.
Allowing multiple mesh selection would help a bit, this way you could apply one material on multiple mesh in one click.
What do you like least about Marmoset Toolbag?
I've been using Keyshot a lot lately to render my high polys. I was generally surprised how easy I picked it up. Really simplistic. Today, I'm back to Marmoset for my game-model renders. Even though I've used Marmoset in the past, I'm still a little confused about how to save what I'm working on. I have the option to save scene, meshes, and materials? I wish I could just save the scene and be done with it.
EDIT:
I'm going to continue editing this post as I work today.
1.It would be great if I could color-pick the floor color instead of only having the option to use a texture.
2.The marmoset logo is just great. Never has opening software been so enjoyable lol.
I'm just happy with anything really. The fact you guys directly ask for input on the forums and put hard work into making us happy makes me glad I gave you guys my money.
*More texture channels for the basic floor would be nice so I can add a normal/specular map to it as well (saves me having to import a plane).
*Fog would be nice
*Modules that you can add to your materials to animate them (Simple ones like Panner from UDK)
*Maybe I'm being a bit wishful here but a morpher function which could blend between 2 meshes (One in the scene shown and a reference one loaded in which can be hidden), some really nice effects could be had when doing turntables with this >:D