[WIP] AR-15 (300blk short barrel)

Arod529

So I'm building an AR-15. :poly142:

I plan on building this IRL when I have the funds. I'll be updating this periodically through the modeling project.

I'm currently working on the hp model.

Crits & critiques welcome.

Arod529

Quick Update:
Got some more pieces shaped up and a bit of tweaking in several areas

Arod529

Got a few more parts done and a lot of clean up work. Man did that lower receiver get real messy. I still need to clean up the right side ridges, they aren't up to snuff.

Let me know if you see anything out of wack aside from the grip.

Lucas Annunziata

When showing off your high poly models, use a background that isn't black. There's some great stuff in the wiki about model presentation and how to set up a quick render scene that you can use for presenting your models better.

http://wiki.polycount.com/Model%20Presentation#Model_Presentation

Arod529

Thanks for the tip, unfortunately most of the high-poly specific links are dead, but i did a bit of own searching.

Just about done with the high poly i think. Just need to go ever all the parts and make final adjustments.

Testing out a render setup, I kinda like it. What do you think?



Complete:

joeriv

Looking a lot better in terms of presentation.
Maybe the Backgrouns is just a tad to light, but that might just be me.

In terms of modelling, I think you might want to go over the model and check the reference, there are quite a bit of small/medium inacurate parts, and it really shows in the overal image.

Also some small things in terms of modelling, the back of the receiver part is a bit blobby, the ejection port cover (or whatever it's called) is round to much on the sides, and top (could use some control edges to control the rounding), things like that

Arod529

So... much... cleanup...

I rechecked my reference an the dust cover looks right to me. I did go though and do alot of clean up on all the parts. Only thing left for the hp is the stupid bolt... which is being unreasonable...

Here are some pics:

Bek

This is awesome dude.

joeriv

Maybe it's just me but:

I feel like this is the main problem, not only on those types of shapes, but also on the way you did your control edges over the whole model.

Left part it's actually smoothing out over the whole length, almost turning it into an oval, right one with the proper control edges controls the rounding to the corners.



On some parts where it's meant to it looks good (the magpull afg grip), but for example on the receiver, everything just looks to "blobby".

Or the thing at the end of the barrel, you can kinda see it "bulging" in the center instead of being a nice straight cylinder.

Obviously you want nice edges, but then add some more control loops so that doesn't happen.
Biggest offender for example is the part of the receiver just above the trigger.

Arod529

@Bek Thanks.

@jeoriv Good explanation, I kinda see what you mean by that now. I'll have to experiment with a couple of pieces and render out some comparative shots and see what kind of results I get. Thanks for the input.

The Lone Penguin

Not sure which manufacturer you're basing this on but watch these areas I circled here, they look off. Jeoriv already made a good point but especially on the lower receiver where the buffer tube screws in, that rounded lip piece looks different I'd check it again. The magazine well also looks like it flares out at the base, try making the lip on the edge a bit fatter and lessening that flare look. Also, quite a bit nit picky here but the forward assist should be a little bigger.



One more nit picky part, the magazine is a little off in shape and the details are too large/intense. I'd take another look at the pmag

Brygelsmack

Looks very solid overall. This bothers me though, looks like obvious pinching but should be easy enough to fix.

Nice work!

SPYFF

Brilliant geometry and renders, good work!

Arod529

I did a quick experiment on the can based on what joeriv said. I think we can all see the difference. Can't believe I missed that. On with more clean up.

Thanks for all the critics and comments, very encouraging.

AlexCatMasterSupreme

While this looks good and some parts look fucking awesome, that stock kicks ass, but some parts just look "lumpy", can't explain it any other way.

Arod529

Guys, I'm having a serious wtf problem with max...

I started working on the bolt and am having serious smoothing issues.

It started as I was reparing a few accidentally deleted faces. I was toggling the turbosmooth to check for missed welds and what not, and noticed some inconsistent smoothing:





Here is what the verts look like in turbosmooth. I appears to be a smoothing group issue (note the smoothing group check box), however, the smoothing groups are fine; in fact, both sides mirror each other:






As you can see, the geometry is identical on both sides:







Ignoring it for now I used a boolean to cut a hole in the mesh, and after I returned it to an editable poly, this happened:




Still not sure how to fix it, I continued to work on the model. I used one last boolean, and now it seems to be effecting the entire thing. Here are some examples. As you can see, I can even remove all the supporting loops and the shape remains the same:





Also of note, the "smoothed edges" are much sharper than the topology should even result in if smoothing worked properly. I have tried to rebuild the faces and edges with no change in results.

Any ideas? I really don't want to have to rebuild the mesh.

Ehsan Gamer

In pic number 3,4 and 5 I see some vertices without edge connecting them .

You have accidentally removed the edge but did not hold the Ctrl key I guess.

joeriv

When you have the problem that control edges don't seem to do anything, and the edges are always sharp:

Export your mesh as obj (without TS and as quads), and then just reimport it.
That sometimes just happens when using the normal boolean.

SPYFF

I remember some problem with Isoline Display checkbox on the turbosmooth options. Try uncheck.

Arod529

The obj export worked, thanks. A couple more adjustments and I'll post so more progress pics.

Arod529

Here they are. Unless my eyes deceive me, I think I got all the lumpiness out. I'm going to start some low poly work.

Arod529

Here's some wip bake tests. The Red Dot still needs a bit of work on the unwrap. Feel like I could reduce the grip a bit more? Interesting working from high to low. So far, not seeing any detriment in workflow for this type of hard surface project. :thumbup:

Arod529

I'm still working on this, but I'm working on another project, as well atm, so progress has slowed. Anyway, I have some baking questions, maybe some one will be able to help out.



"PIC #" refers to sub images, from left to right.

For this image, I have a curious case of deformed baking. As you can see, in pic 1, the hex bolt isn't round, has a flat side. in pic 2 you can see my unwrap is clean. and pic 3 is the high poly. Any idea as to why by bolt got squashed?




For this image I have an inconsistent bake on an even feature. In pic 1 you can see the horizontal groove that runs all the way around the center of of the sight. However, in the front, for some reason it loses it's crispness, and in fact appears as if there is some mesh change. Again, pic 2 shows a clean unwrap, and pic 3 the high poly. Any ideas what is causing the artifact?




In this image, pics 1-4 shows some low poly lighting errors baking down, which is curious because I've never had low poly lighting errors bake into the normals. I fixed it (as visible in pic 5) by separating the smoothing groups where there were uv breaks. The question is, any quick way to, after unwrapping and collapsing the stack, to select faces based on uv elements?

[EDIT] nvm, I wrote a script.

Arod529

So here is the entire rifle with tentative bakes.

So I thought it would be a good idea to compare the results to professional work, especially in regards to polycount and resulting bake quality. I thought the Farcry 3 weapons set a good standard, give or take a bit: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114622

Lets compare a bit of stats. At this point a bit of optimization could be done, I think, by removing a lot of mesh that is covered by extra goodies like the foregrip, rail covers ect...:

Mine: 21,329 tris
FC3 P416: <= 10,00 tris

Now in comparing the models, I do have a lot of extra goodies, in comparison, as I designed the rifle the way I want it to look, some what ignoring an optimum design for a game engine. So, on taking count of what would be a comparable amount of goodies I get an estimate of ~13,922 tris. Maybe I'm making excuses... if so, please do say so.

I also feel that my mesh and bake quality could go up. Have no idea how I could even reach a 75% lod reduction and still maintain a decent look. That's only 5,332 tris for mine, and 2500 for FC3... that is insane...

Please tons of crits. Especially suggestions on better mesh and bakes. Feel free to ask for specific pics too.

Arod529

Why you no comment... it has its fair share of problems... :poly116:

Ok, so I've solved the baking issues in post #23... but I need suggestions guys.

Take a look at the definition this guy achieves out of his bake on the slide serrations: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1698194&postcount=10

Why can't I seem to get that? Suggestions please.

Why So Flat???

HP(ignore bottom can):




HP:



Also, 3 point shader work on 2013? I can't seem to find reports of compatibility anywhere and Max is retarded and can't even show it's own normals correctly. would be nice to be able to visualize it correctly while working


Marmoset Shader

Max Shader

Pedro Amorim

Are you using Nitrous?
I think it would be a good idea to switch the viewport to direct 3d, so you can use the shader properly.

Arod529

Ya, I use nitrous. I've tried D3D but it still doesn't show normal maps properly and it is ridiculously slow in comparison. Here is a screenie:

AlexCatMasterSupreme

Dat magpul furniture. WHAT COLOR WILL YOU MAKE IT.
Also use 3pt shader.

Arod529

AlexCatMasterSupreme wrote: »

Dat magpul furniture. WHAT COLOR WILL YOU MAKE IT.
Also use 3pt shader.

Not sure on the colors at the moment, though I probably will experiment with some different schemes. Unfortunatly, 3pt shader doesn't seem to work on Max 2013 yet... unless some has made a workaround... kinda disappointing, though I did notice it said it has to run in dx9 mode, which is super slow for some reason.

Pedro Amorim

Try Xolioul shader

Arod529

Well, XoliulShader works, but needs d3d, which is too slow to work in. Thanks for the suggestions though.

Here is the current texture progress, just a basic black scheme. Not really happy with it though, could use some tips.

Arod529

Progress Update.

Arod529

Think I'm about ready to call this done. Any last comments or crits would be appreciated.

11,402 Polys or 21,655 Tris
2048x Diffuse, Specular, Normal

Modeling and Texture baking: 3ds Max 2013
Texture paining: Photoshop, Gimp 2, nJob
Render: Marmoset Toolbag

Animated GIF (~4mb)

BobtheGreatII

It looks nice... but it's lacking any sort of personality. It looks too clean, and the metal only kind of looks like metal. I really think you could push it further to be honest. Really make it pop.

Think about how this was done:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94852

That's just my opinion though.

Add3r

Definitely came out better than most. That is for sure. I would say you have too many hard edges in areas where there would be soft bevels (the magazine), and the magazine also feels really narrow. There is also way too much bump and texture in the normal on the plastic pieces (mag, stock, grip, etc). I own a gun, nearly identical to this, and I can definitely vouch for the material. Its much smoother, with a subtle texture for that grip help.

Keep it up! Like said above, the texture needs some personality.

Shrike

You only completed the first step in texturing. You put the base color values.
ITs not finished like that.

Now you need to add drybrushing (highlights at the edges) - wear n tear
Dirt & Scratches
Slight Color variation in the diffuse (especially in metal)
Put maybe a light setup and bake a top down light, put it very slightly in the diffuse
Get some highlights on the screws, metal texture on the metal parts

Stuff like that
If you dont complete the steps required for texturing, it wont be fine. You cannot leave the retopo process away in modeling , and so is it with texturing aswell, only that the program dosnt say "NO" to you.

Ich 666

I agree with the guy above me, your high poly looked really good, it would be a shame to let it go to waste like that.

This is not done yet!

Arod529

Thanks a ton for the feedback guys.

I've given some character to the polymer and adjusted the texture to make it a bit softer. Having a really hard time with the metal though. Anytime I try to add color variation, dirt, ect it just makes it look splotchy. There is inherently some variation in it already, that sometimes doesn't show well on the image capture, that I tried to show below.

@Add3r Not sure what hard edges your referring to on the mag.

Heading the Right direction?

Benton

I think you need to add some ware and tare.

Arod529

How's it looking?

Arod529

Hey, I took a break from the texture work as I was getting annoyed with it. On my revisit I decided to texture it from scratch and try out Substance Designer. I'm very satisfied with the polymer, moderately satisfied with the metal. Comments and crits much appreciated.





Also, why does the model go all mirrored on me if there is no normal map? Only difference between this and the first pic in the lack of normal map. Notice the mirror effect on the lower receiver. I would like to be able to take control of this, but can't figure out what is causing it.

Jerc

You should make your edge wearing/scratches a lot darker, just slightly lighter than the metal, putting those very bright highlights only in the specular, not in the diffuse.
The dark lines on the clip are also too dark, globally you have too much contrast in your diffuse I would say.

Also try to use some brushed-metal type noise in your metal specular, right now it looks too uniform and shiny. Also try to use some of the Grunge maps instead of the traditional noises in your metal, it will look a lot more like natural wear and dirt and less splotchy.

ausernottaken

I think the old texture was fine, no reason to change it. The colors in your new texture clash too much.

Shrike

The new one is a mess. What is with those huge artifacts in the metal ? Also you have a redish and a yellowish white tone for the main color which dont go together at all.
Just check out some other guys weapons and how they textured it. All you needed on the old one is a lot more wear and tear.

Drybrushing is super important:



Thats how the wear works. Highlight the edges. Also add some scratches and dirt to round it up.

IsparticusI

Agree with all of the above people about the texture. The old was fine, just needed to push it a little further. Use as many references as you can (scratched and worn metal). Also references of your actual weapon and others too just to get an idea of where exactly the gun will wear.

For good examples of peoples work, take a look at polygoo's website or lonewolf3d's. Also, if you want some good tuts, look at milennia's texture tut on youtube, and/or keep a close eye on racer445's texturing tutorial.

Just keep digging into it and try not to get frustrated. Take your time to use references and think how the real life material reacts to light and looks in the real world. Keep it up!

IsparticusI

Also, one more thing, this may be a little late in the process seeing that you might now want to go back, but when it comes to weapons, always think about where the camera is and what is going to be seen the most and how up close. For example your tri-count for the iron sight and everything that is close to the camera, isn't close to what it should be. Up that tri-count, and take away some in the handle. Generally in fps games, the player never takes their right hand off the handle, therefore you barely need anything there. (just something to keep in mind for the future)

Arod529

Well shit... I guess I need to start assuming no comments as at least average level work. But that old texture is gone, long gone, and isn't coming back.

As far as the colors go, I can easily change those. Perhaps some of the strangeness comes from the lighting? I'll post an image with just the skybox lighting; let me know if it changes opinion on color. Contrast I believe I can fix by smoothing out the gradient of my AO.

@Jerc Thanks for the suggestions. I felt something was off with the wear, but wasn't sure what.

Shrike wrote: »

The new one is a mess. What is with those huge artifacts in the metal ?

I'm assuming your referring to the last image? If so, please read the text directly above it.


@IsparticusI I found polycount because I found Lonewolf's portfolio. Wish I was even half as good has him. Ya, a bit late to go back and change any model related stuff on this project, I've already spent too much time on it, not without lessons learned though. I'll look up those tuts, thanks.

Marmoset Sky Lighting Only

xKillerKev7x

This model is incredibly done well. You have a great talent

Arod529

Thanks xKillerKev7x

I played around with a few things. Tell me what you think.

theSixtyEight

not a big fan of your colors...green stock, sand mag/handguard, blueish body, and yellow details are just very distracting..also yellow parts has no sense to me..it looks like some badly painted plastic pieces on child toy

bbob

1st gen of textures were much better in terms of low-frequency detail. Colours and materials were good.

All you needed was adding wear and tear, along with a well loved spec map (colour).