A gameart desktop
I'd like to update my desktop. Its now about 5 years old and showing its age. I also have a feeling that I could update my desktop before a decent tablet pc for art is out. It would be good to play some games on it too.
I'd like to be able to run, marmoset toolbag, zbrush, blender (including cycles at much faster speeds), photoshop, ndo, ddo, UDK, 3d coat, direct x 11, 3d max 2012. I also want to keep the price under 2000. So I will stick with gaming gpus although there is a possibility of SLI setup.
Which OS would be best for this? Windows 7 or 8?
Huge bonus if there is a sleep mode like windows 7 for inactive periods.
How noisy is SLI? Will I need to water cool?
What's a good DX 11 GPU?
Will a SSD hard drive at say 128 gigs, and 1 tb harddrive make much faster loading of programs? I'd put the programs on the SSD and all files on the standard drive.
What type of CPU would be best for price range?
What speed of ram is recommended?
I have a giant lian li case, it would be nice for a smaller tower that fits closer to my standing desk setup. But not sure how that would be with air flow.
How powerful of a modular power supply would be needed for dual SLI? I like modular for easier arrangements of cables in the case.
I'd like to be able to run, marmoset toolbag, zbrush, blender (including cycles at much faster speeds), photoshop, ndo, ddo, UDK, 3d coat, direct x 11, 3d max 2012. I also want to keep the price under 2000. So I will stick with gaming gpus although there is a possibility of SLI setup.
Which OS would be best for this? Windows 7 or 8?
Huge bonus if there is a sleep mode like windows 7 for inactive periods.
How noisy is SLI? Will I need to water cool?
What's a good DX 11 GPU?
Will a SSD hard drive at say 128 gigs, and 1 tb harddrive make much faster loading of programs? I'd put the programs on the SSD and all files on the standard drive.
What type of CPU would be best for price range?
What speed of ram is recommended?
I have a giant lian li case, it would be nice for a smaller tower that fits closer to my standing desk setup. But not sure how that would be with air flow.
How powerful of a modular power supply would be needed for dual SLI? I like modular for easier arrangements of cables in the case.
Replies
Which OS would be best for this? Windows 7 or 8?
Huge bonus if there is a sleep mode like windows 7 for inactive periods.
I hate Windows 8 interface for desktops, it takes more steps to do nearly every basic function. Moving around files and jumping between programs feels clunky because of metro, and there is no way to disable it. That is my opinion anyway.
How noisy is SLI? Will I need to water cool?
What's a good DX 11 GPU?
I am not a big fan of SLI because the boost in performance isn't worth the price in almost every application you mentioned. A single 680 can handle all that stuff you mentioned no problem, and you don't have to worry about annoying SLI driver issues. Save the money and buy a single graphics card because in 2-3 years there will be cards that out preform any SLI configuration from today. Your other option is to buy a mid ranged graphics card for games and stuff, then a workstation GPU for your 3D stuff. That might be worth looking into compared to SLI.
Will a SSD hard drive at say 128 gigs, and 1 tb harddrive make much faster for loading of programs? I'd put the programs on the SSD and all files on the standard drive.
Yes SSD hard drives are fast as hell. I would highly recommend looking into one if you are building a machine.
What type of CPU would be best for price range?
if you have $2000 to spend go with the new 3rd gen i7 processors.
What speed of ram is recommended?
I think most motherboards now a days support DDR3 2800 dual or triple channel ram.
I have a giant lian li case, it would be nice for a smaller tower that fits closer to my standing desk setup. But not sure how that would be with air flow.
I love Lian Li cases and would recommend getting another one if you could. You probably want a MID ATX sized case, which is more of your averaged sized tower.
How powerful of a modular power supply would be needed for dual SLI? I like modular for easier arrangements of cables in the case.
This all depends on what all the wattage requirements for your components are.
Does nvidia have less issue than ATI with realtime graphics in the programs?
Lian li. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112366
That's nice looking but no pics of the interior. Sounds like there might be a problem with the gpu length though from the complaints.
-expensive
-driver issues
-micro lags in games
-powerconsumption
-heat
I also wouldnt recommend buying a high end card for 400 bucks or more. I think the most reasonable choice is something from the higher midbudget, for example the Radeon 7870 which costs around 200€. If you save the 200-400 bucks you would have spent on a high end graphic card and buy a new Mid Budget Card, in a year, you will end up with much more value for money.
For Ram Speeds its best to check which speed is suitable for the CPU you're using.
For OS i would recommend choosing Windows 7, but i think thats also more a matter of personal taste, since the biggest noticeable difference between 8 and 7 seems to be the UI design.
With that in Mind i would choose such Components for a Gaming/Developing PC with decent Performance and a reasonable Price:
-Athlon FX 8 Core
-64 Gigabyte of Ram
-Some AM3 Motherboard (i personally had best experiences with gigabyte, just be sure to check
for reviews)
-500-600 Watt Power Supply ( preferably a Corsair or Seasonic)
-256 GB SSD
-2 TB HDD
optional: Buy a Corsair Accelerator SSD for your classic Hard Drive ! It works like a Cache and improves Performance by about 50% on everyday situations.
-Blue Ray Burner
-Some Case, that is functional and well built (Looks are a Matter of personal Taste and dont add any value, if you see your computer as a tool. That doesnt mean it cant be functional, well built and good looking all together)
I'd estimate the Price for this PC to be below 1000€ which is quite good for this is rather a Workmachine than a Desktop with its 8 Cores and 64Gigabyte of Ram.
It's a very good setup for working with multiple Applications at once, and still never run out of cpu-performance or ram.
I'd probably say go with win8 for the performance benefits, might want to check if there's any current driver / compatibility issues with software/hardware you rely on though. If metro UI shits you, you can use programs to get the old style desktop back no problem.
I agree with Don about midrange GPU and corsair or seasonic for PSU's. If you use http://pcpartpicker.com/ you can quickly throw together different amd/intel builds to quickly compare price/performance. Anand benchmarks can quickly tell you what performance you'll be getting from various parts. Good luck!
So i made a little PC Setup here, which i find good value for money, but its just a suggestion and i only picked the most vital parts for performance:
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/r4kw
Also keep in mind that most benchmarks on this site are synthetic benchmarks, which really mean nothing when it comes to everyday usage and performance.
@Womball: Compability advantage ? Dont really know what you mean there, but i dont think you will get into any troubles here. But you should always be 100% sure that Mainboard, CPU and RAM are a good match for each other (i.e. Processors need RAM with specific Speeds and of course a mainboard with the right sockel for it)
Definitely don't throw all your money at once at a PC. Better to buy 16 GB now and 16 more in two year when the stuff is dirt cheap. It's highly unlikely you're going to overload your machine right now. Same goes for the videocard. You could opt to buy a super-high-end card now andn use that for 6 years, or you can buy a fairly-high-end one now and again in 3 years.
Buying 2 cards will be beneficial because the future one will be faster than the single current one, it's better in regards to warranty, and if your card burns up you can swap it out quickly. (if your first card burns, just buy a new one, if the second card burns, swap in the old one)
That's how I look at things, anyway.
But i have to say that 16 Gig might sound big but its really not that much.
I have been working with 4k Heightmaps for Environment Art in UDK, baking them from mudbox, bringing them into worldmachine, then texturing them in photoshop. So even though i had 16 gig RAM, it was already pretty much occupied by these three Applications alone. So if you like to work with lots of different programs open, like when you want to be able to quickly do changes like a rebake in mudbox, i'd personally recommend buying as much RAM as your Motherboard can Handle.
Just wanted to point out that you can actually make use of 32 Gig of RAM when working with big Texture Sizes and heavy loads of polygons, utilizing a lot of differet applications at on time.
Edit:
Also when you buy a SSD these days, i think its best to Choose a Samsung 830 or 840. Many Users have had severe Problems with a lot of different SSD. So Samsung SSDs have been proven to be relatively save and perform really well.
How would you install that accelarator thing. Never heard of such a device.
Does it really speed up say the 1 tb 7200 hds?
IS there a big performance difference between a 560 and a 570 gtx? Any brand of nvidia that is recommended? I have MSI which is a decent card currently however I hate the software for drivers that comes with it. Always slow up startup times.
2.Installation is really easy ! Plug it in like any SATA Device, start PC , download the Caching Software with the KEY that is printed on the device, install software , restart , done.
And yeah it speeds up your hard drive tremendously. I had the Chance to compare a SSD + HDD Setup VS Accelerator + HDD, and i'm in favor of the caching solution. You just don't have to worry about which programs to install on the SSD or which data you want to store there. The Caching Software does everything for you and delivers decent performance.
3. Google it ! Also in most cases it's better to stick with the standard Nvidia/Ati Drivers and dont install extra Software from Graphic Card Vendor.
Don't get too excited about those 8 core processors. I remember lots of talk about them when they were first released and I still hear about how they don't perform like you would expect 8 cores to. That's not to say it's bad. But you can do just as good with i7 processors as a choice for your system.
In terms of brand I think EVGA does pretty well for nvidia cards, but always look at site ratings to get an idea if that specific card has problems.
I think 16GB of RAM should be a good starting point, 64 is definitely overkill and you can always upgrade to 32GB later on since RAM always seems to drop in price pretty fast.
I've heard similar good things about the Samsung 830 and 840 SSDs, as for the 1TB HDD I would still think having it run at 7200rpm at the least would be a good idea. The 1TB shouldn't cost more than $100 though I think.
SLI really doesn't seem worth it. The cost doesn't make up for the slight power boost, the heat, the noise or the extra required wattage. You could probably just use one, then if you think you need an upgrade, buy a new one and then either use the old one in another computer or sell it.
i7 ivybridge 3770k.
16gb ram (left room on the mobo for a other 16gb).
geforce 660ti.
no really point of getting a 8 core at this point a good i7 will be just as good.
and SLI just isnt cost effective, and is a pretty big power hog anyways
I dont wanna defend the Bulldozer, because i think AMD hasnt done such a good job there, but if your Applications can handle it and you spend quite some time with Lightmass Calculations, Worldmachine or something similiar , it's a very good and cheap choice.
Also I'm usually not too concerned about Power Consumption, as i would highly recommend overclocking any intel cpu with a free multi (which will drive up your cpu's power consumption anyway). Got my last intel up from 1.8 to 3.0 ghz without Vcore Adjustment and it still runs with no crashes yet. But maybe i'm just a Performance Geek ^^
Another note, is there is little performance difference between the slightly cheaper sandy bridge then the ivy bridge of equivalent processors. This is due in part to the shitty heat spreaders on the new ivy bridge (some japanese articl took his apart and was able to increase performance by using a less cheap heat spreader)
I have a rather overclocked ivy bridge running nearly 4 Ghz, 16 gigs of ram, sabertooth mobo, decent GPU, and I couldn't be happier in programs like zbrush and xnormal bake speeds.
I haven't read the whole thread either.
I am an AMD fanboi. Really, I hated each and every Nvidia I had in the past. That said...
Bulldozer is a massive disappointment. Ivy Bridge is the king at the moment. Don't waste your money on an AMD setup, I'd say. Even if you go a couple of generations back, Intel is still superior.
If you don't render with something that has to have CUDA I'd go with an AMD graphic card though. Bang for the buck is much better - again, as long as you don't need CUDA. I'm not sure if the major render engines will adopt OpenCL at some point. Some are using it some are CUDA exclusive.
I almost exclusively use Zbrush and had no graphics adapter related problems.
List format ideas:
- Get at least 32 GB. Dimms are dirt cheap there is no reason to limit yourself to 8 or 16. 64 bit versions of the softwares commonly used are here or they are about to be here. You won't regret it. I have 24 GB (old system) and I sometimes wish I had more if for nothing else just to have a RAM drive on the side.
- Make sure your MoBo has the "capacity" number of RAM slots. For quad architectures that is 8 slots.
- Get another Lian-Li or not, use your old one. Lian-Li make beautiful chassis.
- Get a higher efficiency PSU rather than higher power one. Excess heat is a vicious cycle - you'll need more cooling thus more power etc. These days a 750 is more than adequate for most single graphics adapter setups.
- SLI or ATI CrossfireX are for gaming. If you are not at least an enthusiast level gamer and plan to replace your cards every year, you don't want either of them. Although CrossfireX scaling for multiple monitors was a lot better the last generation (been out of loop for a while). So it might be something to consider if you use say 3 monitors at once.
- Profit? I don't know, putting together a PC is always a matter of personal choice. We certainly don't usually need professional setup performances at home even when we do video production, renders etc. So, if you are happy with a bulldozer go for it. Jsut know that there are "better" choices out there.
Cheers...
For intel mobos, if you got one and the latest I guess i7? Could you upgrade later to a nicer one that comes out soon at a decent cost?
I will be using CUDA.
What's a good MOBO for the Intel 3770? That's not that super armored asus 270 monstroisty thing. Sabertooth or wathever its called
And there is a 100 dollar price range between the 660 ti and the 670 gpus. They both have 1344 cuda cores and the only difference is that the 660 has a 192 bit gddr 5 ram, and the 670 has a 256 bit gdd5.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/647?vs=598
I will post up my part picker soon.
That's the build I think I'm going to with. Let me know if anything seems off or problematic. I will probably end up with the white case since the black case is out of stock and is discontinued.
and I Fucking love this rig, so that should do you very well, I can get Maya, zb, ps, and udk all up and working nice and snappy at the same time.
You can purchase 64gigs between 350$ and 450$.
2x Intel Xeon E5-2687W Octacore 3,1GHz / 20MB / Socket 2011 (Boxed) (150w)
2x ASUS GeForce GTX 690 4GB (GTX690-4GD5) in SLI
Physx-accelerator: ASUS GeForce GTX 650 Ti 1GB DirectCU II TOP (GTX650TI-DC2T-1GD5)
Corsair DDR3 64GB PC 2133 CL9 (8x8GB) DOMINATOR
2x Seagate Internal HDD Barracuda 3TB (64MB / 7200RPM) (ST3000DM001) in RAID0
SSD-cache: Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB SSD SATA3 (CSSD-N120GBGTX-BK)
2x Corsair SSD Neutron GTX 480GB in RAID0
ASUS Z9PE-D8 WS - ATX / Intel C602 / Dual CPU Socket 2011
2x Corsair Hydro H100i watercooling
Corsair PowerSupply (PSU) AX1200i Digital 1200W
2x ASUS Blu-ray 14x burner BDXL - BW-14D1XT/BLK/B/AS - Internal
ASUS ROG Xonar Phoebus 7.1-soundcard
Corsair Link Cooling Kit
ASUS PCE-AC66 Dual-band Wireless-AC1750 PCI-E Adapter
Corsair Obsidian 900D Godzilla - Black chassis
32GB of RAM is good if you plan for the future.. today it's still a bit ridiculously much
Say far away from AMD if you want the BEST. 8 core, 6 core.. doesn't matter. It's not about what sounds good and the feature list.. it's about benchmark results and the Ivy Bridge CPU's from Intel outclass AMD's best anytime. Intel has been on top for years now.
Good choice with nVIDIA graphics card as well. I had two AMD's, plus two of my friends bought AMD's as well and we ALL had "VPU Recovery" issues. That is caused by the graphics card obviously.. over-heating problems.. crashes what not. I had like 4 GeForce cards.. never had 1 problem with them.
Rig looks good, what pokes my eye is the Samsung SSD
That other rig posted looks overkill. Xeons? And Very expensive. Mine was 1700 total. Looks like the processors are alone are 2000 grand each! If I spend 2000 grand on something it will be a cintiq or a vacation.
Motherboard (spend as much as you can on this)
You will need more than a 750W psu, 850w minimum, 1000Watt max.
Your cpu cooler should be at least a Noctua NH-D14 (this cooler simply rocks) but does not fit in many cases.
Your case must be big enough, antec & coolermaster make better cases for this type of build than Fractal.
Ram is probably the more simplistic component as you really can't go wrong with it as long as its been tested and verified for your mobo make. Why not 4 x 8GB ? no point using 2 slots when you can have 32gb of ram. I would go for a 64gb system if I could start over but this means you need to look at other mobo's.
Don't skimp on any of the above as you will regret it.
Easy !
good luck
On your own head be it !!!
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Looks like a nh d14 fits in there.
The i7 3770K is easily overclocked to 4.2ghz with volt settings at stock, so for about (I think) $25 / $35 more your going from a stock clock speed of 3.5ghz to 4.2ghz, that's a massive performance boost. You can't do this on an i7 3770 as they are not built for overclocking.
I think my point is that you can get a really powerful system for $2000 but it requires weeks of research and once it is built you wont be nagged by, I should have gotten this or that would have been a better choice (I have been there before).
At the end of the day if you are happy with your purchase enjoy it and get back to work:thumbup:
Cheers
Although I'm still in the market for speakers. Probably 2.1 THX style. Can fit those on a adjustable standing desk. And screens. I have 17" square lcd which still work, but when they go I will probably go up to 21-24" (widescreens now, not wild about) area LEDs. Just not wild about the difficulty of installing the monitors. I have a monitors set up so they are floating and adjustable to almost every angle. Lots of tied downs are used for it. This part of the package isn't needed right away though.