Don't forget that you need to bake out from an FBX in XN, which isn't ideal for older versions of certain applications through the pipeline, using Max 2009 and having the model go through Max 20XX, etc isn't too grand.
So yeah, HandPlane is really super cool, it cuts out the middle man out of everything honestly.
This is awesome!!
One suggestion, though... Add support for command line!
Currently the program is a bit of a paint to automatize in maxscript. I have to find the window handles send strings to them etc, it works but command line like xnormal would be superb.
If I were to implement this at work for the artist I would like to minimize the steps as much as possible and I'll probably create a script in 3dsmax that interacts with your program for a super easy to use one-click solution.
The low poly cube has all 12 edges set sharp, yet Handplane still treats it as if the entire model is smooth.
Blender's method of exporting smoothing groups is to physically split sharp edges on export. It does not use actual smoothing groups like 3ds Max. I'm not sure if this is the reason (though I'm pretty sure it is), but hopefully it will help if you attempt to get Blender support working. It sure would make a lot of Blender users happy!
James,
we don't officially support blender fbx files. It is something we can look at adding in the future but it will be a while until that makes it to the top of the priority queue. Partly it depends on how blenders fbx implementation works and if it natively will pass quad triangulation direction correctly.
Alright, best of luck! I still look forward to using Handplane for 100% smooth meshes, it works exceedingly well By the way, if it was to be a requirement to triangulate meshes before export, I have absolutely no problem with that. I do anyways just to be safe, and it is a small price to pay to use this incredible tool. Though of course, I know that's not the only issue.
James: What happens when you;
A. Bake your object space map with a completely smoothed mesh
B. Convert your tangent space with a different mesh with the hard edges
Its really a shame blender doesn't support proper custom normals like pretty much every other 3d app, but maybe this will work.
How much is this eventually going to cost?, I don't need an exact number just a ball-park range.
The tool will remain free for non commercial use. I can't get much more specific than that yet.
I am also currently working on free training material that will live on the handplane site covering topics ranging from how normal maps work to complete bake workflows from multiple packages.
James: What happens when you;
A. Bake your object space map with a completely smoothed mesh
B. Convert your tangent space with a different mesh with the hard edges
A. I get a regular object-space normal map like I should from xNormal (see Temp_normals attachment)
B. Using the hard edged mesh, I get the same result in Handplane as before, a completely smoothed normal map (Temp_normals_unreal attachment)
I just did a test in UDK. It turns out that UDK only imports the FBX with sharp edges if I have 'Explicit Normals' selected for static meshes. Otherwise the mesh comes in completely smooth.
Skeletal meshes come in with the correct sharp edges, regardless of the 'Preserve Smoothing Groups' option. However, I recently got issues like this, but for some reason those issues only occurred with skeletal meshes.
James,
the root of these issues in both cases is using blender. Neither handplane or unreal know how to load the smoothing information correctly. Normally, unreal loads smoothing splits without having to use "Explcit Normals" and as I have mentioned in the thread, importing normals with your model will break the handplane result.
The tool will remain free for non commercial use. I can't get much more specific than that yet.
I am also currently working on free training material that will live on the handplane site covering topics ranging from how normal maps work to complete bake workflows from multiple packages.
That would be cool. There are so many solutions now. 3pointlight shader quality mode, UDK new tangents import on non skeletal meshes - many factors that make this process really confusing for not so experienced of us. Waiting for this!
Btw tool is great. It's easy to use and gives great result. Wanted to thank you guys!
Also, I wanted to reiterate that maya users will get the best results if they use our included plugins for passing the lowpoly to the tool (or fully triangulate your meshes). There is no way to pass triangle direction for a quad out of maya with fbx. If the final tangent space is unreal, unity, 3dsmax, or source it is strongly recommended that you fully triangulate your mesh.
Baked in 3DS Max 2012, the uvs that are giving the issue have been offset (the entire mesh is mirrored, so I'd expect the errors to be all over rather than just the few areas seen above.
Hi Artstream,
Is that on the build from earlier this week? If so email me the files at: alecmoody@gmail.com.
Based on the colors in the normal map it looks like channel inversion- have you tried hitting those mesh elements with a reset xform to see if they are in fact facing the wrong way after mirroring?
1)what format is the model being sent to unity in? post the settings for the output options and your unity input settings. Make sure you aren't importing any information related to normals or tangents when you import your model into unity.
2) Is the cube triangulated (and was it triangulated at the time the tangent space map was made)? I am not sure if unity will correctly import triangle strip directions so the safest bet is to triangulate before making your tangent space map.
1)what format is the model being sent to unity in? post the settings for the output options and your unity input settings. Make sure you aren't importing any information related to normals or tangents when you import your model into unity.
2) Is the cube triangulated (and was it triangulated at the time the tangent space map was made)? I am not sure if unity will correctly import triangle strip directions so the safest bet is to triangulate before making your tangent space map.
Thank you for response. So, that I dont need to importing normals from fbx when I imporn model to unity, am I?
I tried different settings for import (and export) from maya and 3dsmax...(end evry time I rebuilt the tangent space map)
Oh, sorry for all. I hadn't read second post in theread=(
Now I know, that tool does not give 100% result. Anyway Thanks!
p.s. I think all of big engines with sdk mast have built-in tools like that
Oh, sorry for all. I hadn't read second post in theread=(
Now I know, that tool does not give 100% result. Anyway Thanks!
p.s. I think all of big engines with sdk mast have built-in tools like that
It won't fix those issues in your model, though, because they're nothing to do with the baking process - regardless of how you bake your normal map - it's an issue with shader optimisation with the built-in shaders in the Unity engine.
For what it's worth, here's handplane (object space normals baked in modo) versus my xNormal plugin in Unity, using per-pixel rather than per-vertex normalized light vector.
I have email the files ,It took me a while to produce the same error.
This tool is great i just tested it out . The normal map this tool has created seems as its baked inside Maya.
In future is this going to be free software?
I tested your files out. The error is being caused by the UVs being offset outside the 0-1 square. In the future we can make a more specific error message so this is less confusing. The tool intentionally ignores shells outside 0-1 space so that you can use conventional workflows for mirroring and UV sharing.
I tested your files out. The error is being caused by the UVs being offset outside the 0-1 square. In the future we can make a more specific error message so this is less confusing. The tool intentionally ignores shells outside 0-1 space so that you can use conventional workflows for mirroring and UV sharing.
Ok i made a stupid mistake . I had mirroed this assest on other side and the UV's for that had been moved by 1 unit . So when i was using handplane i exported the mirrored assest, which you explained is the reason for error.
Hey, just tossing in a quick question regarding .fbx and triangulation.
Basically, the tests I have done have resulted in the triangulation getting screwy during the export, resulting in handplane then using a model where some edges have been turned.I then have to correct some of the triangulation in 3ds Max to get rid of shading errors. Since then I've updated to fbx exporter version 2012.2 and I'm wondering if there are any options i should check/uncheck to ensure that the triangulation is kept intact (I have not done any new tests)? This is mostly because I want to avoid having to triangulate the entire lowpoly before exporting.
I checked the entire thread and couldn't find anything about this, hopefully I didn't miss any posts.
There is a box called "preserve edge orientation" if that isn't working send me your scene file + object space map and we will figure out why. alecmoody@gmail.com
Hi Everyone,
We are getting close to a final release build and I wanted to put out a call out for more feedback. I am particularly interested in hearing from people who downloaded the tool but haven't used it, and people who used the tool and don't see themselves integrating into their workflow. The beta feedback has been really positive but we have had thousands of downloads and only a few people have provided feedback. If anyone has anything constructive to suggest I would like to hear it at: alecmoody@gmail.com
Also, if you haven't used or aren't planning to use the tool please tell me why.
I just baked my first object today with handplane and it works amazing with Max and UDK.
A couple questions.
Do the inputs auto-update when you export a new version of the files from their packages? Or do you have to re navigate to them each time? I could see this causing headaches if they don't update to the latest export.
Beyond that, everything seems to work great on my end. Can't wait to purchase this!
Hi, I have a couple of questions about this not directly related to the tool, but just out of my own curiosity...
first, how come an Object Space normal map be low poly agnostic?
and second, why aren't we using Object Space normal maps instead of Tangent Space normal maps for everything?
So, basically what's the difference between TS an OS maps I guess!
Replies
So yeah, HandPlane is really super cool, it cuts out the middle man out of everything honestly.
One suggestion, though... Add support for command line!
Currently the program is a bit of a paint to automatize in maxscript. I have to find the window handles send strings to them etc, it works but command line like xnormal would be superb.
If I were to implement this at work for the artist I would like to minimize the steps as much as possible and I'll probably create a script in 3dsmax that interacts with your program for a super easy to use one-click solution.
The low poly cube has all 12 edges set sharp, yet Handplane still treats it as if the entire model is smooth.
Blender's method of exporting smoothing groups is to physically split sharp edges on export. It does not use actual smoothing groups like 3ds Max. I'm not sure if this is the reason (though I'm pretty sure it is), but hopefully it will help if you attempt to get Blender support working. It sure would make a lot of Blender users happy!
we don't officially support blender fbx files. It is something we can look at adding in the future but it will be a while until that makes it to the top of the priority queue. Partly it depends on how blenders fbx implementation works and if it natively will pass quad triangulation direction correctly.
A. Bake your object space map with a completely smoothed mesh
B. Convert your tangent space with a different mesh with the hard edges
Its really a shame blender doesn't support proper custom normals like pretty much every other 3d app, but maybe this will work.
The tool will remain free for non commercial use. I can't get much more specific than that yet.
I am also currently working on free training material that will live on the handplane site covering topics ranging from how normal maps work to complete bake workflows from multiple packages.
A. I get a regular object-space normal map like I should from xNormal (see Temp_normals attachment)
B. Using the hard edged mesh, I get the same result in Handplane as before, a completely smoothed normal map (Temp_normals_unreal attachment)
I just did a test in UDK. It turns out that UDK only imports the FBX with sharp edges if I have 'Explicit Normals' selected for static meshes. Otherwise the mesh comes in completely smooth.
Skeletal meshes come in with the correct sharp edges, regardless of the 'Preserve Smoothing Groups' option. However, I recently got issues like this, but for some reason those issues only occurred with skeletal meshes.
First of all, thanks for this great tool!
We made some tests here at the studio and everything work well.
We only miss some obj and tga support.
the root of these issues in both cases is using blender. Neither handplane or unreal know how to load the smoothing information correctly. Normally, unreal loads smoothing splits without having to use "Explcit Normals" and as I have mentioned in the thread, importing normals with your model will break the handplane result.
That would be cool. There are so many solutions now. 3pointlight shader quality mode, UDK new tangents import on non skeletal meshes - many factors that make this process really confusing for not so experienced of us. Waiting for this!
Btw tool is great. It's easy to use and gives great result. Wanted to thank you guys!
http://www.handplane3d.com/beta/handplane_11_14_12.rar[/size]
Build Changes:
Fixed License error problems
Fixed Maya tangent basis and maya h3d format bug
Fixed errors related to shells outside 0-1 UV space
added TGA support
added Xnormal option for object space normals
added temporary taskbar Icon
Side note, is there a place to grab the newest licensed version? Or is it just the beta version that is available for now?
Just the beta build available for now. We expect to have a final build ready to go before the end of the year.
Nice tool! Looking forward to it solving the UDK skeletal mesh issues!
I'm getting a few artifacts in my conversion from OS to TS.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2619547/OS_TS_Error.PNG
Baked in 3DS Max 2012, the uvs that are giving the issue have been offset (the entire mesh is mirrored, so I'd expect the errors to be all over rather than just the few areas seen above.
Is that on the build from earlier this week? If so email me the files at:
alecmoody@gmail.com.
Based on the colors in the normal map it looks like channel inversion- have you tried hitting those mesh elements with a reset xform to see if they are in fact facing the wrong way after mirroring?
Yea, tried an Reset XForm, no change. Emailing you the files now. I'll also host it on dropbox in case the attachment file bounces back.
a couple of things to check:
1)what format is the model being sent to unity in? post the settings for the output options and your unity input settings. Make sure you aren't importing any information related to normals or tangents when you import your model into unity.
2) Is the cube triangulated (and was it triangulated at the time the tangent space map was made)? I am not sure if unity will correctly import triangle strip directions so the safest bet is to triangulate before making your tangent space map.
Would love to see more options
Thank you for response. So, that I dont need to importing normals from fbx when I imporn model to unity, am I?
I tried different settings for import (and export) from maya and 3dsmax...(end evry time I rebuilt the tangent space map)
steel have problem=(
Now I know, that tool does not give 100% result. Anyway Thanks!
p.s. I think all of big engines with sdk mast have built-in tools like that
It won't fix those issues in your model, though, because they're nothing to do with the baking process - regardless of how you bake your normal map - it's an issue with shader optimisation with the built-in shaders in the Unity engine.
A preview window would be nice, as well as a sequential save checkbox for troubleshooting would be handy as well if possible.
ability to use supporting edge loops to remove waviness is so good.
also maybe make the default padding size around 3 or so
Pretty much identical results, nice work guys
Left: handplane / Right: xNormal
I think it would be a nice addition to correct some seams.
Yeah, that conversion is coming.
rahulcamma- can you email me your maya scene along with your object space map and the h3d file that is causing the error?
alecmoody@gmail.com
I have email the files ,It took me a while to produce the same error.
This tool is great i just tested it out . The normal map this tool has created seems as its baked inside Maya.
In future is this going to be free software?
Right?! Time to check it out!
I tested your files out. The error is being caused by the UVs being offset outside the 0-1 square. In the future we can make a more specific error message so this is less confusing. The tool intentionally ignores shells outside 0-1 space so that you can use conventional workflows for mirroring and UV sharing.
Ok i made a stupid mistake . I had mirroed this assest on other side and the UV's for that had been moved by 1 unit . So when i was using handplane i exported the mirrored assest, which you explained is the reason for error.
I am a maya user so it is very helpful for me
Basically, the tests I have done have resulted in the triangulation getting screwy during the export, resulting in handplane then using a model where some edges have been turned.I then have to correct some of the triangulation in 3ds Max to get rid of shading errors. Since then I've updated to fbx exporter version 2012.2 and I'm wondering if there are any options i should check/uncheck to ensure that the triangulation is kept intact (I have not done any new tests)? This is mostly because I want to avoid having to triangulate the entire lowpoly before exporting.
I checked the entire thread and couldn't find anything about this, hopefully I didn't miss any posts.
alecmoody@gmail.com
We are getting close to a final release build and I wanted to put out a call out for more feedback. I am particularly interested in hearing from people who downloaded the tool but haven't used it, and people who used the tool and don't see themselves integrating into their workflow. The beta feedback has been really positive but we have had thousands of downloads and only a few people have provided feedback. If anyone has anything constructive to suggest I would like to hear it at: alecmoody@gmail.com
Also, if you haven't used or aren't planning to use the tool please tell me why.
I just baked my first object today with handplane and it works amazing with Max and UDK.
A couple questions.
Do the inputs auto-update when you export a new version of the files from their packages? Or do you have to re navigate to them each time? I could see this causing headaches if they don't update to the latest export.
Beyond that, everything seems to work great on my end. Can't wait to purchase this!
first, how come an Object Space normal map be low poly agnostic?
and second, why aren't we using Object Space normal maps instead of Tangent Space normal maps for everything?
So, basically what's the difference between TS an OS maps I guess!