Home Technical Talk

Perplexed still on low/high poly manipulation

1
polycounter lvl 9
Offline / Send Message
Chase polycounter lvl 9
I just watched the new ZClassroom tutorial demonstrating more or less the Boolean feature using Dynamesh. He was able to get this shape extremely shortly using this operation where as modeling it in Max would've taken way too long for him let alone me.92261945.jpg

I've been told to avoid using Booleans as it simply destroys geo, and that I should be able to model the shape without relying on subtracting primitives. For me, this tutorial threw all that in a blender because modeling this prop in Max seems like a bloody nightmare where as ZBrush made it a 20 min operation.

Take for instance this gun prop I'm making
photo7581jpg.png
I can model this in Max easily, but why not just DynaBoolean the thing in ZBrush, decimate the high poly or throw it into Topogun and get the low poly that way?

Replies

  • ZacD
    Offline / Send Message
    ZacD polycounter
    Booleans in zbrush using dynamesh is fine, just avoid relying to heavily on booleans in max or maya.
  • Chase
    Offline / Send Message
    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Is that because ZBrush won't mess up the geo like Max and Maya?
  • Ace-Angel
    Offline / Send Message
    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 7
    Traditional apps like Max and Maya, have a very different pipeline when compared to apps like Zbrush, vs. apps like Solidworks, etc.

    Each one has a different workflow, the point is you need to learn each workflow, and make do with it at the end of the day.

    You're told to avoid bool operations in traditional apps because you want controllable topology right off the bat. It would be very silly to model something in Max, bool and retopo it when from the start you have the ability of creating an organized mesh.

    ZB on the other hand doesn't have this option, just like it doesn't have the option of selecting vertices and extruding manually or creating holes manually, so organized mesh isn't possible right off the bat, hence why you can model stuff with bools, because you have to.

    Look at it this way for an idea, the time it takes you model something cleanly in Max = time for ZB user to Model and retopo said model.
  • Chase
    Offline / Send Message
    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Makes sense. I'm already looking at the reference for my gun rail and how I'd do it in Max cause there are just a lot of elements in ZBrush that would make it difficult. Practice practice practice
  • WarrenM
    Offline / Send Message
    WarrenM Polycount Sponsor
    I've been playing with a work flow lately that consists of modeling shapes in Modo and using GoZ to send them over to ZBrush. Once there, I boolean them together and create complex shapes pretty easily.

    Ace has a point that you will have to retopo the ZBrush high poly model but if you build the high poly with an eye towards that process, it shouldn't be too bad.

    I'm finding the trade off worth it so far because I can get so much more detail out of the ZBrush booleans than I can out of traditional modeling techniques. That's a personal thing, obviously, but since I'm not that great at sub-d modeling to begin with it works for me!
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    You can make that shape in minutes in max. Using booleans. Just try them, instead of listening to what some guy's cousin's uncle's grandmother said about a rumor pertaining to how booleans should be avoided. Max has Power Booleans, which is very good.

    There are countless disadvantages to doing hard-surface modeling in a sculpting app. Learn to use modeling tools properly before considering that path.
  • cryrid
    Offline / Send Message
    cryrid greentooth
    zbrush actually has tools to model vert by vert and delete faces. The main thing is that it is used to dealing with a massive level of polygons. It doesn't need to clean itself up and optimize the topology, it can apply sheer brute force to hammer out a shape.
  • nyx702
    Offline / Send Message
    nyx702 Polycount Sponsor
    perna wrote: »
    Max has Power Booleans, which is very good.

    The native 3dsmax Booleans you are referencing are called "ProBooleans" not Power. I think that is a 3rd Part plugin. Sorry to jump in here and correct you but I just didn't want to confuse the OP.

    But regarless, ProBooleans are awesome. People laugh at me when I say that I use Booleans but they are the dumb dumbs that dont know ProBooleans exist.
  • ZacD
    Offline / Send Message
    ZacD polycounter
    At a certain point, people new to 3d tend to just boolean everything just because addition and subtraction via solid shapes makes sense. I'll just bolean some windows, boolean this door knob onto this door, combine these parts, etc... and they tend to not use tools that may provide better results quicker like bridging or beveling. These people also don't realize it might be a good idea to keep some meshes seperate.
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    nyx, ah thanks, you're right - it's ProBooleans, I felt there was something off there. And yeah, the toolset really rocks, and figuring out how to make shapes that way is a lot of fun.

    Op: The hard part is creating the "carve objects", to get them to intersect properly so you end up with the shape you want. With ProBooleans you can edit these objects non-destructively while the boolean is performed.

    It's a shame when someone starts using zbrush for hard surface because they don't feel sufficiently confident with subdivision modeling, as that's only going to make it slower to learn sub-d.
  • Chase
    Offline / Send Message
    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks for the comments guys. Like you said Perna I'm just having a difficult time modeling in general so I'm trying to find an easy out. Right now I'm stuck on this rail prop in Max. I thought it was going to be easy. Nope, not for me. This has taken me a few hours to model
    79004984.jpg
    I think it's look good so far. I just don't know what to do with the low poly on the right. This is the most complicated thing I've done up to this point. Any advice would be great :poly122:
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    I threw together some shapes to show how clean the results are, even with complex intersections.

    There are occasional bugs, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

    If you tried to make something like this without booleans it would just take forever.

    edit: I forgot to say; there's zero poly-modeling involved here. Just primitives and boolean. No shape-changing modifiers either

    per128_boolz01.jpg
  • Computron
    Offline / Send Message
    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Perna, have you tried doing any hard surface in the latest z-brush? The video OP linked seems like it does a good job for boolean-heavy machined pieces, it could be faster than worrying about topo in 3ds max, assuming the end result will be part of a typical res normal map. Also the mask-painting/booleaning part of the radio video (Part 2, toward the end) looks pretty useful.

    Also, do you often use the boolean method you posted above to start those kinds of models?
    Do you do a lot of manual stitching and reflowing afterward and/or is that that just the raw result from proboolean?
  • Chase
    Offline / Send Message
    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    That's just the raw result from proboolean. You'll have to do some edge clean up almost every time. In ZBrush it's done automatically........I believe.

    Perna, for the parts I've circled what did you do to get the smooth merge?

    11331218.jpg
  • Computron
    Offline / Send Message
    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Also, wouldn't you need a lot more geo to have this extrusion keep it's shape?

    rkFLp.png

    Wouldn't that extra geo make the boolean and the resulting clean-up a lot harder/more-work?
    You also couldn't do this nondestructively or non-linearly, like if you realize later that you need to add that geo in to make the extrusion, so you would have to redo a lot of the work in that case, no?
  • Scruples
    Offline / Send Message
    Scruples polycounter lvl 10
    We need something like a voxel cube that you can attach booleans to and continue manipulating the boolean objects after they are applied. Being able to drag a cylindrical hole across a mesh and watch it update with a proper chamfer would be a nice thing to see.

    edit: to answer computron on the destructivity question, proboolean is only partially destructive, you can still modify the operands and their modifier stacks.
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    Chaserm: Automatic edge cleanup? You're comparing two completely different approaches. I would argue that a permanently subdivided mesh consisting of millions of unnecessary polygons is anything but clean :)

    Not sure what you mean about smooth merge, it's just standard boolean, making sure the objects line up and keeping the number of cylinder segments, etc, under check.

    computron: About the protruding box shape, just add more segments to the base cylinder. Everything's parametric. This means you can tweak the settings and watch everything update in realtime until you have the perfect mesh. It's pure genius.

    Not sure what you mean about not being able to work non-destructively.

    Computron: It's all a balancing act. Will Zbrush be faster? Then use Zbrush. Simple. Will Zbrush be faster because you don't have good subd modeling practices? Then practice your sub-d skills. For the majority of cases your overall procuction time will suffer, and quality will suffer a lot, from using ZBrush. It's just common sense. You can't select an edge and chamfer it unless you have a clean cage model. You can't change a chamfer width on a zbrush model. Heck, you can barely change anything at all. Once you've done something, you're stuck with it.


    Scruples: The boolean operations operate realtime in max. You can move a cylinder around and the hole it punches in a box is updated on the fly. Then you can go back at any time and change it again.
  • Computron
    Offline / Send Message
    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Scruples wrote: »
    We need something like a voxel cube that you can attach booleans to and continue manipulating the boolean objects after they are applied. Being able to drag a cylindrical hole across a mesh and watch it update with a proper chamfer would be a nice thing to see.

    Groboto+Modo does something like that, but it maintains great topology and SDS endgeflow. The only problem is the topo is uniformly dense and that can make somethings a little difficult to hand model afterward.
    Scruples wrote: »
    edit: to answer computron on the destructivity question, proboolean is only partially destructive, you can still modify the operands and their modifier stacks.
    perna wrote: »
    Computron: About the protruding box shape, just add more segments to the base cylinder. Everything's parametric. This means you can tweak the settings and watch everything update in realtime until you have the perfect mesh. It's pure genius.

    Not sure what you mean about not being able to work non-destructively.

    How do you modify the parameters of the boolean members later?

    Like how do select and increase only the cylinders edge segements?
    I can't find the option in my proboolean:
    UQ58V.png

    EDIT: I have to extract the sub-objects, don't I?

    Facepalm! :poly127:

    perna wrote: »
    Computron: It's all a balancing act. Will Zbrush be faster? Then use Zbrush. Simple. Will Zbrush be faster because you don't have good subd modeling practices? Then practice your sub-d skills. For the majority of cases your overall procuction time will suffer, and quality will suffer a lot, from using ZBrush. It's just common sense. You can't select an edge and chamfer it unless you have a clean cage model. You can't change a chamfer width on a zbrush model. Heck, you can barely change anything at all. Once you've done something, you're stuck with it.

    I agree about that, it seemed to me like you where discounting zbrush wholesale for hard surface like a lot of people who tried using it before all the new tools in the later releases of version 4. I am curious if you have used it lately as a lot of websites have been posting tutorials and models made mostly with Zbrush in recent memory.
  • Scruples
    Offline / Send Message
    Scruples polycounter lvl 10
    That is neat, first time I heard of this.
    [ame=" Real-Time Real-Boolean Modeling.mov - YouTube[/ame]
  • Chase
    Offline / Send Message
    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    I just meant have to make cuts and connects to make quads and triangles haha. As far as smooth merge goes, I just mean how you created the two shapes I circled in the pic. They flow evenly together
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    The image below shows the operands on the right. Any change I make to them will update the boolean result in relatime. You can set them to transparent and occupy the same space as the result for an even more direct editing.

    I've doubled the amount of segments on the main cylinder and shrunk the small box protrusion to aid subdivision. It's very easy at this stage to go around to the various mesh pieces and make sure they all have the right amount of segments to support intersections, transitions and the like, in subdivision. Even control edges can be made with booleans, by cutting in a slightly scaled instance of a primitive, etc.

    per128_boolz02.jpg

    Chaser: It's just a matter of lining up the objects, using vertex snaps and the like. In the below image I've made sure to synchronize the number of segments and radius between the chamferCylinder and the cylinder. Obviously if the cylinder had a different number of segments the transition would look terrible. Since you can at any time go back and change a value there's little chance to screw up

    per128_boolz03.jpg
  • Chase
    Offline / Send Message
    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Ok thanks for the explanation. I'm gonna try this out later and get back to ya with my results :D
  • Computron
    Offline / Send Message
    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    So you put all the primitives together, then you instance them and make a proboolean on the instances?

    How come I have never heard of this!! :poly121:
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    Computron wrote: »
    So you put all the primitives together, then you instance them and make a proboolean on the instances?

    How come I have never heard of this!!

    It's even easier than that. You can at any time extract the operands by checking "Inst" then "Extract selected".

    Now, keep in mind that operand instancing and reference rules are respected. For example in this model I have four small holes that punch through the model. The cylinders that made those holes are instances, meaning I can change the radius of all those holes in one operation.

    I have a WIP tutorial on all this stuff. I don't think most people realize the power of this workflow... ProBooleans in conjunction with the modifier stack, instancing/referencing.. and one other major element too, need to wrap up that tutorial.

    You can basically get a limited CAD style parametric system, but with polygons.
  • Computron
    Offline / Send Message
    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    How long have you been using this method? Do you have any more complex examples or shapes where you have used this (I assume this is a lot less usefull on organic flowing shapes)? Do you got any tips to minimize cleanup?
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    computron: well as your questions indicate, it's a large topic, so I'll see about wrapping up the tutorial. There's sample models and all sorts of little cool tricks.

    Try it out. Just be aware of random flakiness, like with a lot of max stuff. Most of the stuff it'll work fine, just now and then a certain boolean op won't work unless you slightly nudge a mesh or line up certain edges or whatever

    I don't know anyone else who uses this workflow extensively, so it's about time to get the word out there. I'm on 3ds 2009, so the tools have been around for ages. and ages and ages.
  • Computron
    Offline / Send Message
    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Hell yeagh! I hopped into max and have been playing around with it since you mentioned it.

    Definitely post your tut when you get it up, hopefully with some really complex, somewhat more organic shapes.

    As an aside, how would you go about cleaning up the merging on this shape:

    hRmrN.png

    My guess is that a more realistic scenario would involve less segments on the big cylinder or more on the smaller one, but any tips in this case?

    Here is my attempt, although its got tris and its not really smooth:

    iEF67.png

    j1wM3.png
  • Scruples
    Offline / Send Message
    Scruples polycounter lvl 10
    Reasons I lurk this forum, perna, renderhjs, (and matt to a lesser extent :P).
    I'll be watching for that tut.
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    thanks scruples

    Computron, the simple answer is sync the number of segments, which will make merging a lot easier. However if you MUST connect them as-is, build control loops as normal and try to place the transition triangles where they'll be least noticeable
    per128_ansjosmaffa01.jpg
  • Computron
    Offline / Send Message
    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    So, I was on the right track, it just 'needs more geo'. Man, I keep hoping there are a lot simpler ways, but SDS is mostly a lot of manual work and clean-up. Its why z-brush is so appealing for some of these things.

    Thanks man!

    Also, That last thing is pretty cool lookin', can you post the primitives and the wireframe? How much time did it take to clean?
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    well, not more geo strictly, but everything needs to be the same density.

    The last thing, no manual cleanup, it's simple shapes with a bunch of modifiers like twist etc. It pains me to see people use only basic modeling tools in max when it has all those mad features and systems that can be put to use for all sorts of great effects
  • Computron
    Offline / Send Message
    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Yea, but "Needs more geo, but not strictly, just in the right places and with the right density" doesn't quite roll off the tongue as well. :poly124:

    But I understand, I was going for essentially the same thing with my attempt.
    It's hard to gauge how much geo is enough, I guess thats the type of thing you hone in on with experience.
  • cptSwing
    Offline / Send Message
    cptSwing polycounter lvl 9
    this thread is a winner, ladies and gentlemen - seems I need to work through the awkwardness of max's booleans after all. very interesting stuff perna!
  • WarrenM
    Offline / Send Message
    WarrenM Polycount Sponsor
    Great info in this thread, damn. I'm learning the ZBrush/Modo/boolean workflow right now but I'm open to whatever. More options are good!

    And thanks for the Groboto mention. I'll take a look at that today, I've never heard of it before..
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    Computron wrote: »
    I agree about that, it seemed to me like you where discounting zbrush wholesale for hard surface like a lot of people who tried using it before all the new tools in the later releases of version 4. I am curious if you have used it lately as a lot of websites have been posting tutorials and models made mostly with Zbrush in recent memory.

    Didn't catch this earlier, think you made a big ninja edit in that post.

    Yeah I know what Zbrush can do. The limitations should be very obvious to anyone who works in a real production environment.
  • Deadly Nightshade
    Offline / Send Message
    Deadly Nightshade polycounter lvl 8
    Anyone tried this?:
    [ame=" Boolean Master 1.0 - MEL Script Demo - YouTube[/ame]

    Real-time booleans in Maya
  • cryrid
    Offline / Send Message
    cryrid greentooth
    A small thing to consider when using zbrush for this: keep all of your original shapes, pre-dynameshed (like how the tutorial has them). Then if you do need to go back and add more segments or adjust a bevel size, you're not screwed.
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    I'll include a write up on prepping this object for subd too, since it's fairly complex.
    Below all numbers of segments are synchronized so it doesn't end up with the artifacts shown to computron.

    It won't be out this week, but considering I have most of the material already it'll go throuh
    per128_boolz04.jpg
  • Chase
    Offline / Send Message
    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Yeah, just looking at that image I'm kinda lost haha. I see the shapes you used, just need to see the step by step to fully comprehend it
  • xXm0RpH3usXx
    Offline / Send Message
    xXm0RpH3usXx polycounter lvl 10
    i dont want to post something too obvious, but just recently i found an interesting section of the pro booelans settings i would like to make everyone aware of.
    Under "advanced options" you can tick on "make quatliterals" which makes it possible to add some support edges easily.
  • Chase
    Offline / Send Message
    Chase polycounter lvl 9
    Yeah I just saw that last night. Makes it easier then doing it manually lol
  • EarthQuake
    Personally I take that attitude that as long as it provides a clean bake, and you're comfortable enough with the technique that you can make any changes requested of you in a reasonable amount of time, then go for it.

    I think for personal art this is a good policy, but for studio production it falls apart.

    Really it should be "that any artist can make any changes requested in a reasonable amount of time" because quite often someone else will work on an asset you made, either because you're working on something else, you've left the studio, someone else has left the studio and you're tweaking their art, etc etc etc.

    So if you're the only guy in the studio that is comfortable doing hard surface stuff in zbrush it really wouldn't fly. Unless you literally never have any revisions or never have more than one artist work on the same asset.

    Traditional sub-d methods can be viewed/edited in virtually every standard 3d app, and should be easy for any artist to pick up on even if you just send them an obj of your cage. Zbrush content is an entirely different story, and doing certain things like a quick tweak of some edges will be time consuming and difficult, whereas with traditional sub-d its only a matter of sliding some edge loops around.

    Another common situation:

    Lets say you have an asset, and that asset has 20 identical screws. Lets say you go to do your bake and find out the the edges are too hard on every one of those screws and it doesn't read in the bake.

    In your 3d app, you tweak the one source floater you have instanced around your mesh and rebake, takes only a couple of seconds.

    In zbrush you.....
  • nyx702
    Offline / Send Message
    nyx702 Polycount Sponsor
    I wish I could get an RSS feed for all your posts perna.
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    I didn't want to comment much on zbrush, since I know how such things go - first replies from people who are married to their solution of choice beyond any rational logic, then replies from people mindlessly droning on about how all software is equal in every respect and feel any discussion of pros/cons is an act of aggression.

    However, now EQ has approved the subject for discussion by posting on it, so I'll plunge right in:



    For most professions, especially a cushy office-job where you get to be create, perform no hard labor, and receive a decent pay, you'll need years in uni to qualify for a job. You need to study a great deal.

    A great many 3D artists think they'r exempt from this. They are lazy, unprofessional bums who think being in this industry is not a "real job". Most of these people either hang on to an existing job by the fingertips, or they daydream that they'll one day get a job. They will have a hard time, won't make decent money, and will have to fall back on other skills, and if they don't have any then tough luck.

    If you can't be bothered to learn sub-d modeling, what are you even doing in this industry? Could you possibly be any lazier, any less ambitious? When are you going to grow up and take some responsibility? Your job is going to be taken by a young talented and hard-working artist, or it will be outsourced to India/China.

    When you enter a profession, you need to take the necessary time to master the tools of the trade. But you're sat there playing computer games and making aggressive posts on youtube instead. In some years you will enter deep depression. You won't have money, women have no interest in you, your parents are embarrassed. Because you're a lazy bum. This is not a joke, this is how real life works.

    The zbrush thing is mostly a crutch for people who can't be bothered to sit up all day and all night learning proper polygon technique.

    Zbrush hard-surface is slower, uglier, complicates the pipeline, and is on the whole not a ideal solution.

    I feel silly about pointing out the disadvantages of the zbrush hard-surface workflow, because those points are so obvious, but I'll mention a few:
    • Your mesh is a polygon soup. This means that all the tools and approaches built around topology go right out the window. You'll be going back in time, before nendo/mirai, more than a decade back. In a polygon app you just select an edge and chamfer, or move it. In zbrush... holy mother of Hodor, I'll just trail off with dots here like Joe did...
    • You have to rely on either knowing exactly what you want in every way before you even start, or using obscure layer-based workflows to allow for changes. When your AD asks you to "move that bit to the left, please" with polygons, it's a 2-second job; in zbrush you'll suffer an emotional breakdown from the stress.
    • With poly modeling you get the lowpoly for free. Just collapse and remove some edges. In zbrush you'll have to do this from scratch. Using retopo tools for hard-surface is typically a bad idea, so essentially you have to make a polygon model anyway. Since you're making a polygon model in the first place, what did you gain by using zbrush? There's barely any difference between a lowpoly and a hipoly blockout. So, you just completely invalidated any advantage you thought there might be to using a sculpting app.
    • You might logic out that there's a lot of real-world physical hard-surface jobs that are done manually, like in zbrush. I've heard that argument; if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for us. First off, your throughput time is just a fraction of theirs, and almost all those jobs are actually done on computers these days.
    • Accuracy. Polygon modeling allows you to move a corner a specific amount of units with ease. In zbrush.. well there's not even any concept of "corner", it's just a polygon soup, remember? There's no structure, just a ton of quads.
    • Tools. Over the years, countless tools have been made for polygon modeling by all sorts of different parties. Tools are ported across apps. There's such an enormous market for it. Zbrush can't catch up with that.
    • At 3Point we pay a lot of attention to edge definition. A model can be taken from looking noobish to looking pro/realistic just by redefining edges. This is a quick job with polygon modeling. In Zbrush you don't have any control. What are you going to do, manually use the smooth-brush on a separate layer? I'm sure there will eventually be tools to operate on edges (detected by angle and such), but it will still just be playing catch-up with polygon modeling.
    • Look again at the cool hard-surface zbrush models out there. Notice something? They're made to accommodate zbrush. The shapes are all shapes that are easy to do in Zbrush. Now, in a professional environment you don't have that luxury. You have to model what's in the concept. You can't skip a part just because it's near impossible to make it in Zbrush. It's not enough to make a simple base and then only fill in detail on the surface-level like with so many of the good-looking zbrush models out there.
    • Pipeline: Your mesh is now locked to zbrush. A polygon cage model can be exported to and subdivided in any 3d software. The data is very easy to manage and process. Anyone can step in and edit it, no matter which app they use.
    • OK, that's enough of this silliness.

    I watched a zbrush hard-surface video recently that a bunch of polycounters were impressed by. It was taking ages to do what would be a 5-minute polygon job, and doing stuff like using the smooth-brush to get rid of bumps and inaccuracies (have fun spending hours doing that instead of just moving a few verts in a polygon app). The fact that people are impressed by this just means they know little about polygon modeling. If that's you, I strongly recommend you do something about the situation, you lazy bum. Act like a professional if you expect to get paid.
  • WarrenM
    Offline / Send Message
    WarrenM Polycount Sponsor
    perna
    I watched a zbrush hard-surface video recently that a bunch of polycounters were impressed by. It was taking ages to do what would be a 5-minute polygon job
    This is true but mainly because most guys who do that are married to doing everything in ZBrush. To be fair, building shapes in a modeling app and sending them over to ZBrush makes that process a LOT faster. Trying to shadowbox or clip the correct boolean sources is a waste of time, IMO.

    On another topic, I have a question about your process...

    You advocated booleans earlier in the thread, which I agree with. There's really no reason not to use them. You also said that by generating a high poly mesh you essentially get the low poly for free by removing edges, which I also agree with.

    However, do you find that still holds true if you combine both of those thoughts? The boolean'd meshes look nice but they don't seem to have any kind of nice polygon layout that would allow for quick creation of the low poly mesh. Or do they? Granted, I'm not all that experienced so that's why I'm curious...
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    The boolean'd meshes look nice but they don't seem to have any kind of nice polygon layout that would allow for quick creation of the low poly mesh. Or do they? Granted, I'm not all that experienced so that's why I'm curious...

    Good question, this is pretty much the main part of the tutorial. No quick answer - except to state that you will get very clean boolean meshes by Doing Things Right (tm) - so I'll just put time into finishing that
  • WarrenM
    Offline / Send Message
    WarrenM Polycount Sponsor
    Ahh OK. Looking forward to it!
  • MrOneTwo
    Offline / Send Message
    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 9
    Damn I never thought hard surface modelling in Zbrush can be a thing in professional job. I always thought about it as of some interesting thingy... not usable in game art ;p

    I think people are just impressed that you can make stuff like that in Zbrush because Zbrush wasn't made for such things (which is really funny logic. Impresses because it does things it doesn't need to do). Sculpting app that can do hardsurface seems impressive but only as a concept. Also people think they can just make hard surface just like organic stuff. "Topology sucks ? Just divide it and it will look ok". When I started learning 3d I created heads in Zbrush. They needed 2 milion of polies to look more or less ok. Now by using topology right and knowing how to use geometry I can do the same thing with lots less polies.

    I really like technical aspect of subd modelling. I have still much to learn but it's a great subject and I really don't understand people who try to avoid it.
  • JonathanLambert
    Offline / Send Message
    JonathanLambert polycounter lvl 6
    Wow, I'm really looking forward to this tutorial! I had completely written off using booleans years ago. This seems like it could really speed up the work flow when you have complex intersections.
  • Decency
    Offline / Send Message
    Decency polycounter lvl 10
    Just want to say I really enjoyed reading this thread, especially the posts by the 3 Point guys. Sometimes you just need to learn the fundamentals, it's not easy or quick but it pays off.
1
Sign In or Register to comment.