Yeahh, I see what you're saying Kwramm - I was just trying to determine the best way one could, in the mere 4 years he is in college: 1. learn to kick ass in foundations, 2. discover his 'soulmate' discipline, 3. and then get GOOD at that in time for graduation, the real world, and repaying loans. Yeah, none of the above can really be sacrificed. :P Days need to be 48 hours long, don't they? xD
yeah there's no optimal way. Personally, I think the college should have strong emphasis on foundations, but also teach some tools. The students responsibility would be to spend time on tools themselves, which is much easier nowadays with resources like Gnomon.
I guess the hard-core version of this would be what some other polycounters often suggest: traditional art at community college + lots of gnomon DVDs, but I don't think it has to be that extreme Plus it helps if your college brings in people from the industry to talk about workflows, practices, pipelines and stuff that neither Gnomon or traditional art courses touch. Even though you'll be hired because of your art, your life will be much easier if you have some clue about how a production, a pipeline, and related departments work.
The right thing to do is to be realistic and calculate ur time so u end up being GOOD ENUF in one thing to do professionally, and as u continue to go (life doesn't end after college, thankfully) u pick up what u need, and what u want, with less pressure.
yeah there's no optimal way. Personally, I think the college should have strong emphasis on foundations, but also teach some tools. The students responsibility would be to spend time on tools themselves, which is much easier nowadays with resources like Gnomon.
I guess the hard-core version of this would be what some other polycounters often suggest: traditional art at community college + lots of gnomon DVDs, but I don't think it has to be that extreme Plus it helps if your college brings in people from the industry to talk about workflows, practices, pipelines and stuff that neither Gnomon or traditional art courses touch. Even though you'll be hired because of your art, your life will be much easier if you have some clue about how a production, a pipeline, and related departments work.
Foundations is something that takes time, and practice. A luxory most schools don't have. But yes, I agree in the fact that foundations should always be taught first, but teaching/merging it with game art practices would be better optimal in my opinion.
claimed that it will take at least three years of education before you reasonably expect to get a job in the industry. The focused, self-learning path probably requires at least two years (if you know what your focus is and immerse yourself in study and get feedback at places such as PC). The three-year figure was based on several caveats (good school, hard work by student, . . .).
If we use the Pareto Principle as a guide (20-80 rule): 20% of colleges are probably good enough to meet the standards mentioned in the video. 20% of the attending students will probably work hard enough to learn what they need in order to get a job.
It would be interesting to compare the percentage of students that attended "poor" schools and landed a job to the percentage of students that attended "good" schools that landed jobs. I would be willing to bet that motivated, hard-working students that attended poor schools get placed as much as their counterparts at "good schools" if you discount any "inside connections" that may give the good school a placement advantage. If that panned out, then the argument about the quality of the schools would be negated.
I'd further argue that a hard-working student with drive should attend the least expensive school with pertinent courses (and if it has some connections to industry the better). There is no quick solution to educational problems in this country (and that includes elementary, secondary, and college).
Find an affordable school that covers the basics, work your ass off, get online mentorship, practice, practice, practice, and drink quality beer.
Or your terrible choice of diet to get through the grueling hours of learning... like mine.
I eat pretty well, depends on what school you go to I guess (my school requires on campus students to purchase a meal plan, which is part of your tuition. You can choose between 2-3 square meals a day or several combinations of on campus dining and off campus dining).
i finished a university course (3 years) in germany which didn't cost a dime. first thing to do when looking for a school: look at countries where you can study for free. i still dont understand how people are willing to pay the price of a new car for education that is in most cases sub-par.
My university was nearly free as well, and they offer international courses for something like $7000 a year (2 semesters) I think.
I'm pretty sure it's MUCH better than most US schools. I remember some of my coworkers (I taught there) visited AI San Francisco or Full Sail or something and came back with the impression that our students were better.
Here's the link: http://www.digitalartsandentertainment.be
It's funny; even though they have international, english courses, they don't get many foreigners. Partly because they don't really promote it that well/much, but also because students might be afraid to leave home or can't imagine Belgium's a country worth going to or they think that a small school like that can't possibly be better than the big US ones that spend tons on marketing...
I still dont understand how people are willing to pay the price of a new car for education....
Not just any old car man, probably an Audi R8 or a Lamborghini!!
When my wife was looking at a degree in the US from several schools the price for a 3 year full time degree ranged from 50k and up (from well known places) some were over 100k - this blows my mind, I was thinking like.. okay maybe 20k ?
Had to look for local public art schools to get around the 20k price bracket, which tbh arent likely to be accredited and Immigration probably wouldnt recognise them - so ultimately not helping our situation anyway!
Some people that I worked with at Trion are in their 40's and *still* paying back their education - I cant believe you guys get yourself into that much debt before you even started working.
I'm not sure theres much to be done about it tbh, sharing first hand experience in places like PC is a good start though.
don't worry. Immigration usually doesn't check - how would Canadian immigration check a Hungarian degree's authenticity? Imagine all the trouble and time this costs. They usually give you the benefit of doubt, but if they find out you cheated then it's bad for you.
Similarly it doesn't matter for immigration if it's a regionally or nationally accredited uni (e.g. Art Institutes). Even within the US it doesn't matter. This only matters between universities in the US if you want to transfer or go from bachelor to masters within the US. As long as its accredited by the dept. of education you're fine for immigration.
But you're totally right, wtf is up with those costs? This has gone up like crazy... why would anyone study there?
don't worry. Immigration usually doesn't check - how would Canadian immigration check a Hungarian degree's authenticity?
I have no idea how they do it man, but they certainly checked where my Diploma and my wifes Diploma came from. Based on the conversation I had with our immigration lawyer ( when securing a Visa to get from Australia to US ) she said there is definitly a list of 'reputable' schools that they use, and should your school not be on this list, they will take the time to look, and make up their minds based on certain criteria - don't know what that is.
Our school wasnt on the list, so I had to go back to a place I hadnt attended for 8 years, and ask the CEO to write me a letter explaining the facets of the course and how it would compare to todays courses etc - just a circus man.
We got there in the end though it was certainly the long way around.
My university was nearly free as well, and they offer international courses for something like $7000 a year (2 semesters) I think.
I'm pretty sure it's MUCH better than most US schools.
Thats rougly how much we pay for a year down here in Canada or atleast community college wise. University averages around 8-10k depending where you go but that doesnt include textbooks and other random fees.
Something in Canada that is apparently mandatory is having a program checked by professionals and having employed professionals on a board. Though there are some weird workarounds I've seen. There was also 2 students on the board that could bring up issues and complaints which the dean actually listened and tried to implement.
Overall, I would say I got in what I put in though wished the professors were more knowledgeable in certain areas and not preach bad practices (crazybump for spec, no cage normal mapping etc). The coolest class IMO was my programming class as the prof would come in and teach us stuff not on the curriculum but what we actually needed to know :thumbup: Apparently that class is getting cancelled though
The coolest class IMO was my programming class as the prof would come in and teach us stuff not on the curriculum but what we actually needed to know :thumbup: Apparently that class is getting cancelled though
Haha! Man this is *exactly* what happened at My old school too.
He was the only tutor with shipped AAA titles to his name, he came in and basically said.. guys fuck the cirriculum, this stuff is crap and its NOT what you need to know.... my brain would hurt in a good way after every day of his tutilage.
About 3 months into the course I paid good money for... he was sacked, and we went back to learning from a textbook, he was replaced by a former student of the course... yup our tutor was a student from an earlier graduation - no game exp or game credits. I paid for a course whose tutor was a student himself.
About 3 months into the course I paid good money for... he was sacked, and we went back to learning from a textbook, he was replaced by a former student of the course... yup our tutor was a student from an earlier graduation - no game exp or game credits. I paid for a course whose tutor was a student himself.
I never understood this. I mean sure it's I guess somewhat hard to get people to come teach but I think one of our teachers now has like 1 film title to their name but is ready to start teaching us film theory ? Boggles my mind. I'm really glad we didn't have the original prof who was going to teach us this stuff. I looked at the course curriculum and it was how to import music into flash I mean really a whole class for that?
Replies
I guess the hard-core version of this would be what some other polycounters often suggest: traditional art at community college + lots of gnomon DVDs, but I don't think it has to be that extreme
Foundations is something that takes time, and practice. A luxory most schools don't have. But yes, I agree in the fact that foundations should always be taught first, but teaching/merging it with game art practices would be better optimal in my opinion.
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/on-game-schools
claimed that it will take at least three years of education before you reasonably expect to get a job in the industry. The focused, self-learning path probably requires at least two years (if you know what your focus is and immerse yourself in study and get feedback at places such as PC). The three-year figure was based on several caveats (good school, hard work by student, . . .).
If we use the Pareto Principle as a guide (20-80 rule): 20% of colleges are probably good enough to meet the standards mentioned in the video. 20% of the attending students will probably work hard enough to learn what they need in order to get a job.
It would be interesting to compare the percentage of students that attended "poor" schools and landed a job to the percentage of students that attended "good" schools that landed jobs. I would be willing to bet that motivated, hard-working students that attended poor schools get placed as much as their counterparts at "good schools" if you discount any "inside connections" that may give the good school a placement advantage. If that panned out, then the argument about the quality of the schools would be negated.
I'd further argue that a hard-working student with drive should attend the least expensive school with pertinent courses (and if it has some connections to industry the better). There is no quick solution to educational problems in this country (and that includes elementary, secondary, and college).
Find an affordable school that covers the basics, work your ass off, get online mentorship, practice, practice, practice, and drink quality beer.
I eat pretty well, depends on what school you go to I guess (my school requires on campus students to purchase a meal plan, which is part of your tuition. You can choose between 2-3 square meals a day or several combinations of on campus dining and off campus dining).
My university was nearly free as well, and they offer international courses for something like $7000 a year (2 semesters) I think.
I'm pretty sure it's MUCH better than most US schools. I remember some of my coworkers (I taught there) visited AI San Francisco or Full Sail or something and came back with the impression that our students were better.
Here's the link: http://www.digitalartsandentertainment.be
It's funny; even though they have international, english courses, they don't get many foreigners. Partly because they don't really promote it that well/much, but also because students might be afraid to leave home or can't imagine Belgium's a country worth going to or they think that a small school like that can't possibly be better than the big US ones that spend tons on marketing...
Not just any old car man, probably an Audi R8 or a Lamborghini!!
When my wife was looking at a degree in the US from several schools the price for a 3 year full time degree ranged from 50k and up (from well known places) some were over 100k - this blows my mind, I was thinking like.. okay maybe 20k ?
Had to look for local public art schools to get around the 20k price bracket, which tbh arent likely to be accredited and Immigration probably wouldnt recognise them - so ultimately not helping our situation anyway!
Some people that I worked with at Trion are in their 40's and *still* paying back their education - I cant believe you guys get yourself into that much debt before you even started working.
I'm not sure theres much to be done about it tbh, sharing first hand experience in places like PC is a good start though.
don't worry. Immigration usually doesn't check - how would Canadian immigration check a Hungarian degree's authenticity? Imagine all the trouble and time this costs. They usually give you the benefit of doubt, but if they find out you cheated then it's bad for you.
Similarly it doesn't matter for immigration if it's a regionally or nationally accredited uni (e.g. Art Institutes). Even within the US it doesn't matter. This only matters between universities in the US if you want to transfer or go from bachelor to masters within the US. As long as its accredited by the dept. of education you're fine for immigration.
But you're totally right, wtf is up with those costs? This has gone up like crazy... why would anyone study there?
I have no idea how they do it man, but they certainly checked where my Diploma and my wifes Diploma came from. Based on the conversation I had with our immigration lawyer ( when securing a Visa to get from Australia to US ) she said there is definitly a list of 'reputable' schools that they use, and should your school not be on this list, they will take the time to look, and make up their minds based on certain criteria - don't know what that is.
Our school wasnt on the list, so I had to go back to a place I hadnt attended for 8 years, and ask the CEO to write me a letter explaining the facets of the course and how it would compare to todays courses etc - just a circus man.
We got there in the end though it was certainly the long way around.
Thats rougly how much we pay for a year down here in Canada or atleast community college wise. University averages around 8-10k depending where you go but that doesnt include textbooks and other random fees.
Something in Canada that is apparently mandatory is having a program checked by professionals and having employed professionals on a board. Though there are some weird workarounds I've seen. There was also 2 students on the board that could bring up issues and complaints which the dean actually listened and tried to implement.
Overall, I would say I got in what I put in though wished the professors were more knowledgeable in certain areas and not preach bad practices (crazybump for spec, no cage normal mapping etc). The coolest class IMO was my programming class as the prof would come in and teach us stuff not on the curriculum but what we actually needed to know :thumbup: Apparently that class is getting cancelled though
Haha! Man this is *exactly* what happened at My old school too.
He was the only tutor with shipped AAA titles to his name, he came in and basically said.. guys fuck the cirriculum, this stuff is crap and its NOT what you need to know.... my brain would hurt in a good way after every day of his tutilage.
About 3 months into the course I paid good money for... he was sacked, and we went back to learning from a textbook, he was replaced by a former student of the course... yup our tutor was a student from an earlier graduation - no game exp or game credits. I paid for a course whose tutor was a student himself.
Awesome.
I never understood this. I mean sure it's I guess somewhat hard to get people to come teach but I think one of our teachers now has like 1 film title to their name but is ready to start teaching us film theory ? Boggles my mind. I'm really glad we didn't have the original prof who was going to teach us this stuff. I looked at the course curriculum and it was how to import music into flash