3ds max techniques with splines

nufftalon

I need to brush up a bit on my max skills.. I need to learn advanced spline modeling for modeling complex shapes like a decorative gate etc. I was also wondering if I was to make a complex mech that consisted of multiple parts, what is the best was to line things up?

Eric Chadwick

Spline modeling is not that great in Max; it has some funky rules and is real easy to break.

You'll be wanting subdivision surface modeling instead, it's a very robust system.

3dmotive has some good sub-d tuts, and we have some great free resources on our wiki.
http://wiki.polycount.com/SubdivisionSurfaceModeling

Mark Dygert

Sweeping shapes down splines is good for things like pipe, trim, picture frames, molding ect...

Lathe is good for making vases, round planters, pedestals ect...

Splines as a path to "PathDeform(WSM)" another complex shape down is handy.

Splines to make complex surfaces, is pretty trashy in max.

GeeDave

When you say mech, do you mean mesh? I'm having a hard time jumping from "decorative gates" to "Mech"!

For a Mech I can understand avoiding spline modelling, for a decorative gate though, I personally see no problem with using splines as it's exactly how I'd start it all off, I'd be keen to know of better ways if there are any though.

Even the shoelaces guide in that section of the wiki starts with splines:

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71189

As for your actual question, I'd line things up wit a combination of Snaps, Attaching, Fusing and Welding. The one thing to watch out for when attaching splines together though is the thickness (if you're using it, and you probably should be). If one "bar of metal" is supposed to be thicker than another, then you should not attach them.

If you need your splines to be doing crazy things like twisting and coning or even changing shape and whatever else, I highly recommend looking into Loft (accessible via the compound objects menu with a spline selected). Lofts are great because it's a totally non-destructive workflow, you can change anything at any point.

If you need better examples than text I can throw together a quick video tomorrow.

Eric Chadwick

Oops, I was thinking specifically of the Surface modifier. Splines are great for other tasks though, as mentioned.

nufftalon

I learned that splines work well with extrude modifier. From my understanding in order to use the surface modifier you must close the spline first. I see alot of cars done with modeling splines and it is less geometry to deal with but is there anything wrong with doing just normal poly modeling to make a vehicle?


Eric Chadwick: Thanks got the link I have alot to look over I see..3d motive is rather awesome!

Mark Dygert: Wow this is more then I needed. I could definitely use that sweep modifier I never used it before but it will definitely come in handy. I have made lathed objects before yes I am familiar with that. Thanks for the links.

Geedave: Yes I actually did me a mech. I wanted to eventually make my own version of war machine but my way. I was wondering how to keep all those objs at bay. I skip around I know.. Do I have to make a detailed gate as one obj or I can get away with make multiple splines and using twists mods etc? Yes the shoelace technique I have seen done before in Cedric Seaut's book http://shop.3dtotal.com/training/ebooks-general/cedric-seauts-character-modeling-ebook.html I understand everything except fusing not sure what that is please elaborate. The loft I have never used I will research that thanks.

I really appreciate everyones help on this

Chase

I'm also learning to model using splines so I wonder if you guys might be able to point me in the right direction for this sprocket....



I have the outer ring with the 30 little indents modeled perfectly. Just used circles and the boolean tool, but then after spending hours doing the same thing for the two circled parts of the image I got nowhere. What's the solution because I'm stumped. I thought it would've involved boolean, but maybe not.

nufftalon wrote: »

I understand everything except fusing not sure what that is please elaborate. The loft I have never used I will research that thanks.

Fuse joins vertex points much like welding I believe. This video and these ones basically sum up everything you're wanting to know instead of me typing it all out haha.

sprunghunt

Chaserm2 wrote: »

I have the outer ring with the 30 little indents modeled perfectly. Just used circles and the boolean tool, but then after spending hours doing the same thing for the two circled parts of the image I got nowhere. What's the solution because I'm stumped. I thought it would've involved boolean, but maybe not.

make the whole sprocket as a 2D spline and then extrude it.

Mark Dygert

Chaserm2 Drop that sprocket image on a plane, then using a spline line trace out the shape. Since it's a pretty complex shape you probably want to trace out several shapes and then combine them.

nufftalon yea splines are pretty cool and have a lot of uses. One thing to keep in mind is that you can turn any edge in edit poly into a spline using the "create shape" button.

So for example you wanted to trim out a doorway or a window but you only have a simple box shape, select the edges, create shape, sweep and you're done instant trim. Also check on "generate UV coordinates" in the spline menu and it will give you some pretty decent UV's.

Also check out this profile script that helps you bang out some quick profile shapes, as well as add new presets.

One thing to keep in mind is that when you "create shape" on an edge, whatever transformation you did to the original object (object mode, not subjobect poly vert ect) will be transferred to spline. So if you apply a square shape to the spline and it comes out as a rectangle, you need to reset xform, or just zero out the transform and scale matrix (Hierarchy tab, Pivot, Reset Scale/Transform).

One other thing splines can be good at...
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1573389#post1573389

Create shape, sweep a profile, and ProBoolean that into a block to get decorative wall trim. Feel free to go back and adjust the splines and operands to change the pattern. Very flexible, and quick while also easily allowing you to create high poly details and low poly meshes from the same set of splines.

nufftalon

Chaserm2: Thanks I love cgtuts! I have been meaning to watch those videos I watched the other ones on there by Racer445 hes really good. I have use pro boolean before but it comes with some clean up still thats the only thing about it. I also noticed using splines as guides to create geometry is good as well. That piece your making looks cool I wouldn't know where to start I would assume I would draw out the whole profile and then extrude modifier and then cut tool and extrude polies.

Mark Dygert: That script is cool I have 3ds max 2012 though. Not sure if it will work for my version. I would of never of though to use pro boolean with spline combo I will have to try to make a simple asset and see what happens something I can model in one night to get my feet wet. Thanks again for the help.

Chase

No problem nufftalon, I'm constantly rewatching those tutorials. I'm gonna try drawing out splines and attach them all as one, then extrude to see what I come up with. Such a simple solution haha. There's another tutorial on CGtuts that you might find interesting. In case you're interested in knowing the initial steps of the sprocket here's a quick run down...


1. Center a circle to the grid. Then draw out one individual circle and edit its verts.
2. Next use the Array tool to copy 35 of the mini circles around the big circle.



As a side note, I'm just learning the Array tool and it seems to be a little finicky. For instance, the gizmo needs to be set on the World axis and then center the gizmo using the selection next to the World setting OR just manual center the gizmo using the snaps located kiddie corner of the Rendering Tool.


3. Attach everything as on mesh. This is where that Boolean comes into play.
4. Select the the giant circle spline, hit the Boolean and subtraction mode. Then start click each little circle and this is what you should end up with.



5. Do the same for any shape in the middle of the sprocket or that spline outlining everyone else has recommended I use. This is what I got after doing some Boolean selections.

nufftalon

Thanks. Nice after you boolean the spline did you add a shell modifier? I am gonna try to make a complex shape using that technique when I get home. This is really helpful.

Chase

You can plop a shell modifier on but I used extrude. Let me know what you end up coming up with.

I attempted to spline along the shape for the inner star shape, but wasn't completely successful. Once I had the spline shape made all I would get after extruding would be a cookie cutter shape that I couldn't cap or anything. Any thoughts?

nufftalon

When I use the array tool it doesn't go and follow a circle like yours does. Mine just rotates in place on top of one another not sure what I'm doing wrong.

sprunghunt

nufftalon wrote: »

When I use the array tool it doesn't go and follow a circle like yours does. Mine just rotates in place on top of one another not sure what I'm doing wrong.

you need to use the world pivot and not the local one.

Chase

The world pivot and center it to the 0,0,0 point. Look at the second image in my last post. It shows what the settings should look like.

nufftalon

I will try it again tonight I was in world mode though if it doesn't work this time I will screen shot it. I am also having a problem with a uv issue in max unrelated to splines I know but a pain nonetheless, when I am in edit uv mode I can sometimes select edges but most of the time when I am in edge mode its selecting the whole element. I even tried to collapse my uvw unwrap and reapply still the same problem. Feels like it's always something with max.

Chase

You don't have select by element on do you?

nufftalon

No I didn't this glitch comes after I select element mode and then switch back to edge. It stays stuck in element mode.



I found this tutorial on youtube very helpful as far as using the array tool. I was using the wrong rotate on the left not the right. I also didn't realize you have to choose pick from the world drop down before using the array tool. He also presses delete all parameters before he starts.

Check out my settings you don't have to set it to world you pick what you want to array then pick the main



I then added a surface modifier to all splines and collapsed and used compound objects>pro boolean


I then added a simple extrude modifier after I converted the proboolean to edit poly. I am also gonna fix the edge flow later and apply a turbosmooth see what I can come up with.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4HMaGhR5Bk"]3DS Max Tutorial Polar array.flv - YouTube[/ame]

Chase

Yeah I thought you needed to be on World setting for it to work haha. Good to know that's not the case being that it'd be a pain to constantly switch. What's the surface modifier you applied? You mean the extrude being the surface modifier? It didn't even dawn on me to use the Boolean outside of the spline menu. There's a Boolean feature built into the spline, but either way works.

I created a screwdriver using the loft tool. Not sure if it'll be any use to ya as far as learning lofting.



What I never knew as far as lofting goes is that when you pick Get Shape in the Parameters option is a Path percentage that goes up to 100. After you Get Shape or Get Path put in a percentage value and then Get Shape or Get Path and that with go up to whatever percentage you put in. I'm gonna try lofting a glass next.

nufftalon

I applied a surface modifier. It only works on closed splines. Extrude modifier works on open shapes. Loft I have used once or twice.

nufftalon

if you have a complex spline and you use extrude modifier of course you are a left with a front and back poly thats a big mess and have to manually connect verts is there away or a modifier to avoid this?

Noors

Quadify modifier will do but it applies on the whole mesh (works on editable mesh)
Else, there's this plugin which probably do a cleaner job, but not free.
http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/quad-cap-pro
But on a flat surface just a couple inset and connecting some vertices do the job. You don't have to be full quad.

Mark Dygert

There is a "Quadrify All" feature inside of max that works on edit poly objects and modifiers.

Its in the graphite modeling tools:
Modeling tab > Expand Geometry (ALL) > Quadrify All

nufftalon

thank you so much I was doing this manually on letters for a client using cut tool was taking forever