Better way to make modular rubble?
polygon
Right now here is what I am doing.
I create the texture maps in zbrush, they tile properly. I applied the textures to a polygonal plane and moved some vertices up and down,, is this the way to go? Should I use more polys on these? Or should I be using these textures as a terrain texture (im working with the ce3 sdk).
Idealy I would like to be able to create modular rubble/debris that I can use on multiple levels. Something like this?
I create the texture maps in zbrush, they tile properly. I applied the textures to a polygonal plane and moved some vertices up and down,, is this the way to go? Should I use more polys on these? Or should I be using these textures as a terrain texture (im working with the ce3 sdk).
Idealy I would like to be able to create modular rubble/debris that I can use on multiple levels. Something like this?
Replies
2) You have some objects that stick up pretty high and just can't be faked with a normal map all that well.
Those two things combined really are counter productive.
3) You should trim that plane down so it crops to the alpha a lot tighter.
It really depends on how your engine handles opacity but normally each transparent pixel is a lag bomb waiting to go off. The problem can potentially get worse if you start stacking transparent pixels. Even with it set to "alpha test" (on or off, transparent or opaque) it still has to stop and figure out if the pixel is transparent or not and what you can or can't see. With "alpha sort" the problem gets worse it has to figure out just how much you can see and if there are stacked transparent pixels it goes deeper and deeper until it finds a solid pixel, then it takes one step forward for each transparent pixel and figures out how much you can see through each one. Normally you avoid stacking alpha sort planes when possible because just a few could bring the FPS to a halt.
So by trimming the planes you cull a bunch of transparent pixels and the few extra triangles you add really don't impact anything, so don't be afraid to add a little more geometry. Also we are on the verge of seeing some new hardware so people need to stop thinking like we are stuck in the PS1 days, a little more geometry is ok, especially if it helps you cut down on the number of transparent pixels floating around.
Also, since you are using CE3, look into using a blend material to help break things up. Since you have a nice heightmap already, you can have it blend with another, more generic rubble texture. if you look at Crysis 2, all of their rubble, (and there is a lot of it) is done with blend layers. http://freesdk.crydev.net/display/SDKDOC2/Blend+Layer
In the end I still think it's better just creating a tilable texture and then just blend in the rubble using a heightmask or the like. You'd get a good result and you could also model in some detail into the rubble.
Would be killer on overdraw though.
Thanks for the info about alphas Mark, I didnt know it affected performance that much.
I decided to make new rock models since those in the op look too round and soft.
I plan on creating tilling textures with these and using the height map to generate my low poly. I looked at certain rubble pieces in crisis 2 and some of them have over 3000 tris,, gosh I feel so lame with that polygonal plane,,, I think I need to read up on lod though since I have no clue how to set them up.
I also started reading up on blend layers after the above suggestion. I found tutorials online for setting up blendlayers with 3dsmax but I coundnt find any for maya. I think I got it figured out for the most part, but in CE3 shouldnt I have the "vertex color" ticked in the shader params? When I do my model turns all black,, is it ok to keep that off?
Can anyone who uses maya suggest me a polygon optimizer. The "reduce" function is ok but it sucks after you have less than 1000 tris. I have read great things about poly cruncher, too bad its for 3dsmax. I also read 3dsmax 2011 and up has a really good polygon optimizer,,, would anyone be willing to run this through it for me?
https://rapidshare.com/files/1511695414/rubbleDestroyedC.obj
I would love to see how much lower I could decrease the poly count.
Any feedback is appreciated.
~DC
Edit
Just for clarities sake, I am aware that you've said you're using ZBrush, I'm just not sure if this is a feature of the program, or something that could be applied to other packages.
*Set the document size (2048x2048 )
*Load your ztools
*Place them on ur document making sure not to touch the border
*Hold the "tilde" key plus click drag to offset the document. (exactly like the offset filter in photoshop)
For the geometry I just generate an alpha from the tiled texture and use it for the displacement on a plane. Then I decimate it to something like 0.5% and clean up the borders in maya.
Edit:
You could also do it in other packages like maya or 3dsmax if you have the low polys for each object. Just set the grid really low so its easier to work with. And use "snap to grid" to place your objects on the border.
Edit 2:
Here it is ingame so far. Now im going to create a new tilling texture to use for the blend layer.
You guys have the 3ds max blend shader that CE3 introduced ?
it says " Will be include in next release "
BTW Mark you have helped me Alot and one more from you . real thx man .
The edge sucks,, plus I think I gotta change the vertex color cause the blend texture is too much. I think im getting close though.
The pile is pretty chaotic, which rubble should be, but it makes it hard to distinguish any of the pieces. The "doing more with less" approach might work out a little better.
The rebar has kinks and pretty sharp bends which can happen but normally this stuff is curved, twisted and mangled. It's a skeleton put into the concrete to make it stronger and more flexible if it cracks and breaks apart. Two pieces might normally fall part but the rebar might hold it together.
So the rebar is all through the concrete not a sporadic 1-2 pieces here or there. It's a bit more like paper mache over a wire cage than solid slabs of concrete. The rebar actually says a lot about the entire scene. The lack of rebar means substandard building practices or the lack of materials, so keep that in mind. If this was a highrise in an expensive city with high building standards you would see a lot more rebar and larger chunks. If it's Hati after the earthquake... you would see a lot less rebar and more smaller chunks. So what you have is accurate but I'm not sure it fits in every scene.
Making rubble make sense is a key part of telling the overall story that is playing out visually in the scene.
So rebar being all through out the concrete normally, breaks off while the rebar twists and bends, the rebar is designed not to break, what you have left is a mangled skeleton of the rebar with chunks of concrete. It makes the building more durable and less prone to total failure but it also makes it a nightmare to do rescue work in. The rebar weaves through all of it, often has to be cut before you can move it, but carefully because you don't know what it's hanging onto and what it will effect when you "sever the cord".
"Sorry Mrs Brown we flattened the pocket of safety your husband had found when we cut the rebar trying to get to him."
So your rubble pile looks like it was broken up during clean up rather than part of a scene that just happened, if that makes any sense.
http://eat3d.com/free/zbrush_tile