How would I fit in the game industry?
interpolator
Hello, Polycount. I'm a long time lurker who has finally decided to sign up!
Anyways, I have a question. I plan on pursuing work in the game industry (hoping something in Art) and I'm wondering what do I need to do to impress employers and survive the work environment? Take note, I'm not applying right away. I'm going to school first but I'd like to know these things ahead of time.
Just some things about me:
-I draw alot. I also have a vivid imagination (I like writing stories and creating comics in my free time)
-I plan on using modeling programs like 3DSmax and Zbrush. At the moment I'm using programs like Wings3d and Sculptris for training.
-I have a great attention to lighting and shadowing. So much so I consider it an obsession if I don't see shadows in my scene.
-I'm forging my own artstyle. I aim for something that's semi-realistic yet semi-cartoon. I also incorporate other culture's artstyles. For example, I'm looking at Japanese woodblock art as inspiration for all asian characters/themes I design.
-Aware of how competitive getting a job in character art is, I've also devoted some of my time to learning environment art.
-I aim for having the best graphics possible. I'm hoping once I get in the industry that I get to work with the newest consoles so high resolution textures, displacement maps, etc will be my thing. I'm also ok for low poly provided I get to work with texture sizes 512x512 and above.
-I watch alot of cartoons/anime. Both new and old. Observing what makes them unique, as well as observing how they animate.
Oh and most importantly, I play alot of video games, so I'm not clueless about what goes into making a good game!
Anyways, I have a question. I plan on pursuing work in the game industry (hoping something in Art) and I'm wondering what do I need to do to impress employers and survive the work environment? Take note, I'm not applying right away. I'm going to school first but I'd like to know these things ahead of time.
Just some things about me:
-I draw alot. I also have a vivid imagination (I like writing stories and creating comics in my free time)
-I plan on using modeling programs like 3DSmax and Zbrush. At the moment I'm using programs like Wings3d and Sculptris for training.
-I have a great attention to lighting and shadowing. So much so I consider it an obsession if I don't see shadows in my scene.
-I'm forging my own artstyle. I aim for something that's semi-realistic yet semi-cartoon. I also incorporate other culture's artstyles. For example, I'm looking at Japanese woodblock art as inspiration for all asian characters/themes I design.
-Aware of how competitive getting a job in character art is, I've also devoted some of my time to learning environment art.
-I aim for having the best graphics possible. I'm hoping once I get in the industry that I get to work with the newest consoles so high resolution textures, displacement maps, etc will be my thing. I'm also ok for low poly provided I get to work with texture sizes 512x512 and above.
-I watch alot of cartoons/anime. Both new and old. Observing what makes them unique, as well as observing how they animate.
Oh and most importantly, I play alot of video games, so I'm not clueless about what goes into making a good game!
Replies
I'd suggest reading the endless heap of threads on art school on this forum if you're considering attending, especially if you're looking to get a "game art/design" degree...
I'm hoping to buy a powerful enough computer so I can play around more with stuff like UDK (my laptop is weak) and then decide if I need school for that.
As some personal advice, loving games and playing a lot of video games isn't a good excuse to get into games. Almost everyone grew up playing games, and a lot of people play video games. However working on games is a lot different. Not to say loving games and playing them is bad at all, I just went to school with a lot of people who were there because "THEY LOVED VIDEO GAMES!!", and found out they hated the amount of work it takes to get into games. I personally don't think school is a waste of money. It's a good way to stay on track, stay motivated, and learn traditional art skills. That, supplemented with Polycount is the way to go imo. I know I would not have been able to teach myself, but school got me started, and finding Polycount really helped me.
"I don't think college kids get that making games has little to do with playing them. People enjoy sausage but don't really want to work in the sausage factory."
Edit:
Buy a few Eat3D DVDs and a monthly subscription to 3DMotive before you decide to do anything...
Don't just launch UDK and squeal "OH MY FUCKING GOD YOU NEED OT BE A WIZARD TO UNDERSTAND THIS BULLSHIT" while sprinting straight for your nearest Art Institute recruiter with your financial aid form in hand.
My reasons for getting/being in the industry are above that.
1. You might not want to attend school to get a job in the game industry as an artist. There are MANY threads on this subject here on Polycount just search for some. Your portfolio is what matters the most. Unless you need a to work in another country a degree won't mean much of anything as far as artist jobs go.
2. Switching to Max or Maya, Zbrush or Mudbox from Wings and Sculptris is a good idea. Also get familiar with getting your art into game engines like UDK, Cryengine, and/or Unity.
3. You might want to aim be a lighting artist as a long term goal. Lighting artists are typically very experienced though so don't expect to get such a job in your first few years of employment. If you want to go that route try prop artist -> environment artist -> lighting artist. See this to find out more about what a lighting artist does: http://www.cybergooch.com/tutorials/pages/lighting_rfom1.htm
4. Having your own art style is great it lets you show your true passion, however keep in mind being a professional artist you'll have to make what you employer wants in the style they want it in. To get hired you'll need to demonstrate that you can match the art style of whatever studio you apply to in your portfolio. Too far off and you won't even get an interview.
5. Aiming for the highest quality AAA games is fine but you'd be surprised at how many objects end up with tiny textures in order to fit technical budgets.
6. Cartoons and anime are great, I'm a big fan too. Don't forget to broaden your horizons though. Specialize your portfolio to the companies that you are applying to, match their art styles as best you can. One of the most common art styles currently in AAA games is realism.
I'll also look more into matching studio's artstyle as well.
You sound like any other "idea guy" or "artist" kid who has all the good intentions, but instead of talking and asking and dreaming, just needs to get to work on growing some real, awesome skills. You don't need school for that; pure dedication and hard work, being self-critical and listening to advice on Polycount can get you there. There's plenty of examples here of people who did that. But I know ten times more people that didn't have it in them to work as hard as required, and they all had a school guiding them in the right direction.
It'll give you the chance to network with peers, play and bounce ideas off them and your teachers, going to school is one place to mature as an artist around other like minded individuals...It'll allow you the chance to focus on your craft and also give you the chance to travel internationally with the degree you may get.
Yes you can do all that sat in a corner of a room somewhere.. Lord knows I sat next to people who have done that and become ninja game artists. But that isolation comes with it's pitfalls.
In other words you may want to be a games artist now but develop a skillset so you'll become more than just a Games Artist imo.
See it this way the creative industry is broad and vast and as a complete artist you'll have the ability to take full advantage of that...The Olympics is around the corner here..Imagine the amount of artists that are involved with that imagine all you can see and learn.
Don't limit yourself to games your an artist dude....Let Games be a facet of the bigger picture of the artist that you are.
Sorry for the rant both have their advantages and disadvantages, you don't "NEED" to go to university to get a job in games...I know of one guy who got a job this week after dropping out of uni...Sit down and discuss it with family and friends as they'll have your genuine interests to heart, having that support from a good network is paramount.
Do not go to any school for game design, you`ll stay out of a huge debt. There is more than enough tutes on the web to learn whatever you want.
whats up with audio? you ever try to synthesize a gunshot? do you know how hard that is to do?
That's what I'm currently taking (since all the game dev courses need it as a prerequisite). In addition to wanting to refine my art skills.
is it worth what i paid? absolutely friggin not. for-profit education at that scale is a scam. I can safely say, however, that i was so inundated with my own life's crap that I never would have climbed out without school to help me. (i started school a little late - enrolled when i was 25).
If you can do it without paying the suits who've slapped a degree on something that never had it before - do it. If you can't, it's not all bad-you'll meet some great people.
I used to joke that I paid a ridiculous amount of money just to meet a certain teacher.
Just kidding...
I would recommend you to go in traditional art school after all you can learn everything at home.
It can also be very useful to learn more about yourself, taking different courses from your regular interests.
Often people mention that one should not go for the "game art" school, but go for the "real" thing, traditional art, design, engineering... and I would second this, build up a broad foundation. You can specialize through your free-time or passion anyway, and I would think the traditional courses have higher chance of quality being around "longer".
This quote isnt funny anymore.
I've seen many people...sorry. MOST people saying "I went to the univ for arts and 3d arts but I didnt learn anything in school. Everything that I know about 3d, I learned on my own."
EDIT: Forgot to state what I am thinking everytime I hear this quote."The fuq!? You spent soo much money, went to univ for it and didnt learn shit from the univ? Yet you are working for the UBIsoft!! How interesting!!":poly118:
A part of this statement is true that there are colleges / Univs who would just take your money, dont teach you anything so you are on your own. All you paid for is a piece of paper with the golden stamp. But there are colleges / Univs where they actually teach arts and CG arts to you and in a proper, rightful way.
So please; It is my humble request that next time should you feel the dire need to throw your 2 cents to someone, back it up with some alternative or be precise and tell the person WHY shouldnt he go to school.
To OP: to your first question; You should do a fair amount of research before getting involved with anything. This will also help you pick and choose the tools you need to achieve that level of CG you want to achieve. Then it completely depends on you what you want to be. You can be a prop artist, environment artist, weapon and wardrobe artist or character artist. That decision is completely yours to make.
If you want to just make art you can start making art right away.
If you want to know which position you should focus on in game dev, you should analyze that on your own, because you will have to live with it. The way you learn it is either through the school if you can afford it, or self learn if you can manage. It is good that you are going to school for this.
To answer your second question; The first thing that goes in to making a good game is an idea of the game.
No matter what you choose, the Internet will always be your primary teacher.
http://wiki.polycount.com/CategoryGameIndustry#Education
I added a bit more there. But there are many opinions on this, so it's not really definitive. My opinion is that beginners should hear the basic argument then read more and make up their own minds.
I attended a gamerelated collegeprogram (same one Xoliul taught at btw) and i must say it did help me a bit, especially giving me an insight into subjects i normally wouldn't have considered learning like the more technical stuff.
But when i think of the overall things i`ve learned over the years most of them were after classes from personal work.
Especially when it comes down to anatomy and character sculpting.
Now in one way college gives you time to focus, on the other hand it gives you time to waste. It`s up to you to use it wisely.
Also if college will cost you an enormous amount of money than dont do it, stay at home for a year and work your ass of day in day out.
I was lucky that college here in Belgium costs next to nothing.
Style research is good but while you don`t master the basics i wouldn`t try to worry about developing your own. it will only limit you into learning new things.
Style comes with time and practice by itself
Thats a strange thing to say, why wouldn`t you try and do a sub 512 texture?
Trying the uber lowpoly things make you appreciate the higher ones and gives you a new view on how you can optimize meshes/uvs
It won't stop people from posting it anyway, because their situation is unique. Plus, they've already read a bunch of old threads and still can't decide.
That doesn't go without saying though, if I was forced do sub-512 textures I would and I would explore it if I ever think of doing retro projects.
Also, I have a question for those saying no school for game learning. Since I wouldn't be a student, how would I obtain 3DS max? I could work for it but I would have a hard time explaining to my parents I had to spend $3500 for my future (even though it would be cheaper than doing a game course).
for the first year i was in school auto-desk didn't have free student licenses...
or you could always pick up blender. i hear it's not half bad these days.
You dont have a workflow...
I think the main thing you need to do atm is admit to yourself that you know nothing about creating 3d art and start taking in all info you can get without it being blocked by some stupid prejudice about certain steps.
The beauty of game-art are its confinements and how you try to be smart in getting things to look good within them. Like i said before ,doing the oldschool things will make you better/ more efficient at the new workflows and will get you to understand why certain things are done a certain way.
Also the current market has a lot of mobile/web job opportunities in it and those do require you to still use some of those old specs.
on the software try to go for student licenses or
your comment about 512 textures is pretty funny too, it make me think your texturing abilities are lacking but you are too overconfident to realize it. Check out the Dunning Kruger Effect
Anywho I am also one of those people who say that think twice before going to school for game art majors, even if you get a lot out of it in terms of skills and networks chances are it's not worth the price of admission. If you go to a lower cost college and get a degree in fine arts, it might be a better choice, plus then you could get student editions of the software you need while paying less across the board.
On a side note self learning and networking is only getting easier since now polycount members are hosting hangouts regularly and there a a Polycount University skype chat where you can ask for advice and get critiques rather quickly.
Although things get bad when compared to a 2048x2048 texture and up.
It's all about implementation. And the context in which the texture will be seen.
Jordan Walker showed an example of how he used a 2X2 texture in his winning entry for the Brawl Competition. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82199
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94379&highlight=mass+effect+mini
Check the 128x128 screenshot for example, it really shows that good art doesn't have anything to do with texture size.
Create solid art and don't be a dbag. That's about it.
Well in the case I interpreted that sentence wrong, then sorry, my bad
=\. Not sure whats going on but isnt it a bit early to accuse someone of just being a forum flooder or thread hogger?
I'm not accusing him of anything. He's arguing bizarre things about texture size and acting like he's knowledgeable, yet he's given no indication that he has even the foggiest idea what he's talking about. He's disagreeing with expert artists when they give him suggestions.
I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just giving him some very clear, bold, advice, which i'll repeat:
Jordan: quit acting like an expert and either shut up about specific, technical art questions, or post art. If you want to get good, or even get not-terrible, you need to be humble and open your ears a bit.
Seriously why is everyone so angry lately? Lol
You guys do realise 512 is the standard and usually highest texture size you will work on most of the time... LOL
Especially with console titles. There might be the odd 1024, but not many. All these 2048 assets you see about here are purely for portfolios to show off skillz.
So let's stop the fuss'n an a feud'n lol.
Oh and thanks for the links above guys. I'll definitely read them later.