How to start to learn Anatomy to apply for 3D
Hey guys, i finally finished my exams, took my laptop, and fly it out in Croatia to rest a bit, and also to practice modeling.
While i was modeling in max, i am learning hard surface techniques from Warwick or whatever was the guy from Vimeo.
I was wondering, how is the best way to learn anatomy, human and creature and apply that in 3D? As far as found some learning anatomy is, Riven Phoenix, and Visularium courses, but damn, Ryan needs to lower the price, i can't really pay that much.
Other thing i don;t understand is, how from 2D to apply in 3D? I have seen some guys from youtube, they start from just a zsphere in Zbrush, and make awesome creature or human in Zbrush, that's look exactly from the 2D, even better, with detail son him etc.
Should i start to learn how to draw human let's say in Photoshop, because i prefer that way, than drawing on paper.
While i was modeling in max, i am learning hard surface techniques from Warwick or whatever was the guy from Vimeo.
I was wondering, how is the best way to learn anatomy, human and creature and apply that in 3D? As far as found some learning anatomy is, Riven Phoenix, and Visularium courses, but damn, Ryan needs to lower the price, i can't really pay that much.
Other thing i don;t understand is, how from 2D to apply in 3D? I have seen some guys from youtube, they start from just a zsphere in Zbrush, and make awesome creature or human in Zbrush, that's look exactly from the 2D, even better, with detail son him etc.
Should i start to learn how to draw human let's say in Photoshop, because i prefer that way, than drawing on paper.
Replies
Based on my personal experience drawing and shading form helps me understand 3D form. I can spend a week drawing something in 2D from various angles and as I study it and try to imagine how it looks it helps form my 3D understanding of it.
In what little anatomy work I've done I started out trying to copy what I saw, but I didn't really start progressing until I stopped copying and started working on new things and trying to figure out what was wrong, what didn't work and why. Ref stopped being something that I stared at and copied but something that I checked to find out information... if that makes sense.
In one of the art classes I took an instructor said something to the effect of "there is a difference between looking at a flat image and being able to faithfully recreate it and being able to imagine how that object would look if turned and put in a new setting with different light. You aren't trying to regurgitate what you see, but rather learn enough about it that you can place it anywhere at any angle."
From there he just stressed exercises practice and perseverance. I got interested in computers, games and a bunch of other stuff so I yea take from that what you will. =P
Drawing in 2D is less about applying it to 3D and more about understanding shape, structure, value, and form. These are the basis of all visual art.
Do that for a couple of years, then profit.
Another thing I wanna add is that it's important to do it wrong. There's no way in hell your first works are gonna be any good. Just accept that. You do it wrong, then sit there pondering what went wrong, and that's how you learn. Then you do another one and another one.
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ConceptArt.org < Make a sketchbook thread here, great for feedback on anatomy studies.
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http://www.posemaniacs.com/ < great for random odd poses to practice
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Life drawing < nudes are great but just drawing randoms on the street is good too.
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Draw poses from imagination just as much as from life, replicating isn't the same as understanding.
2D & 3D are the same, there's no line in the sand, just a UI learning curve.
really bored and i can't stay in focus. In videos my attention is high and i can't follow all the time.
As a beginner, and self tough. how much should i spend in day learning this stuff? I don't want to sacrifice my social life and friends.
Would like to give me some tips how did you started learning this, and how long did take you to be in place now (working your dream job, dream studio etc)
Eh, as much time as you can spend? Not harder than that, you spend the time you can working on improving.
On the books, I hear you, but understand that there are things that have been thought of and talked about for centuries now. We have that information in books. There's no need to re-invent the wheel.
When it comes to anatomy, keep in mind that it's either in the human body, or it's not. When you're watching a video of some other guy working, you're getting that artist's interpretation of reality. Not reality itself. So ultimately it should be up to you to figure it out. The books, videos, etc, are all there to help you sort things out. But ultimately it's up to you.
love this advice for sooo much stuff man. good stuff
http://www.zackpetroc.com/category/videos/
Also, i would like to ask, because i want to be character modeler, how to learn the proper character topology so he can be easy animated? I have tried poly wiki, but i prefer to see some video tutorial about it.
Anyway Thank you,
To get a better feel for the form though, studying real living moving people is the best way. If you live near the coast, the beach is a great and totally not creepy way to do that. Just be mindful to not let people know you're staring at their uncovered bodies (sunglasses are a must, pretending to read a book can also be helpful; heck you could even bring your anatomy book). You can identify different forms and dips and creases, figuring out what exactly contributes to what you see for that specific person with that specific body type in motion(studying the range of people lets you really understand how the human form works, where muscles connect, where fat forms, and movement is super helpful for really understanding things better in a realistic and applied way; movement also reveals certain things that you wouldn't otherwise take as much note of).
I started learning the anatomy by drawing them. Like I draw a hand and draw its anatomy, or a chest and its anatomy, pelvis and its anatomy with thigh anatomy, neck and its anatomy and so on.
Through out my self tuition I found out that everyone have their own way of making the chest part, like some people would really define the muscles that are under the chest muscles and extremely exaggerate them along with the muscles that are under the arm. Others dont. I dont really. Reason being, even with the person with so much buffed muscles wont be able to provide that sort of structure unless he is from another realm. Plus one has to decide how much anatomy he wants to show according to the concept he is going for.
So with that said; You have to find your own medium to achieve a good anatomy style that you like and sell, but for starters. Start drawing the anatomy I am sure Chapter's art section have a classic anatomy for artists book(s) that you can buy for cheap.
I am saving up for stuff like this as well:
Anatomy Tools
Learning anatomy isn't a quick process, you gotta put in the effort to get the results dude. Same with modelling.
Buckle down and give it ago, good luck with it what ever method you choose tho
Another thing i want to do is to plan my day, for like, to study drawing for let's say 5h per day, and to use 3D max for modeling for 2-3 hours per day, hard surface things for now?
I found that 3Dpalace has awesome hard surface tutorial, like no1 else have. I want to buy them and to model after i spend half of the day in learning drawing and anatomy.
Oh and BTw, Have you guys heard of Riven Phoenix? The structure of Man, seems awesome for someone like me.
Phoenix courses are for someone who have some what idea of an anatomy, you are welcome to try him out tho. Also look in to David Finch and Stephen Platt tutorials. These are only few ways of doing things. There are many other ways which allows you achieve what you wish to achieve. Even if you buy his courses and other tutors' courses you will eventually find out that you probably have to create your own medium to make proper arts as per your ease.
But first, if you are looking in to character arts, you need some sort of anatomy reference. I have been practicing anatomy by drawing it, and by sculpting it but I still lack fair amount of detail when I am done. So there is no estimated time of learning it. Just practice one male, and one female anatomy sketch / digital sculpt a day, or do it twice. You will eventually see the difference.
Good luck
The second best way to learn anatomy is to try different things and see what works for you.
The best way to learn anatomy, is to actually do it instead of making tons of posts about doing it. Less talk, more action, etc etc
http://www.zygotebody.com/
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120175
http://artwiki.wikidot.com/
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131116 < Tons of free art E-Books
http://escapefromillustrationisland.com/2010/01/07/free-andrew-loomis-art-intstruction-downloads/ < LOOMIS
http://www.lovecastle.org/draw/
http://www.pixelovely.com/gesture/figuredrawing.php
http://www.posemaniacs.com/
Also, Thanks to DEElekgolo
i found this zygote body 3d viewer about male and human anatomy, i can click on them and see what's the name of the bone and muscle, but how that, to be able to sculpt in Zbrush, :
I fell like an useless idiot.
I would totally understand if you just give up, as you have explained multiple times you aren't getting anywhere with it. There is no special answer that you are missing out on, people all start as relatively sucky and only get better by continually working at it, which is hard work and may not be for you.
At the end of the day you have to be the one who is going to get this shit done, defending yourself and your inability to work will not help you.
Hi there!
Well, first of all...what do you plan for yourself? Whats your goal? You need to focus on what you wanna do before starting something man.
You can't learn a profession without making no effort on it.
Are you familiar with human proportions? Did you ever draw in your life? Do you know how a body is made? What is the shape of your bones and muscles? Well, you need to learn that first.
I was in a conference with Scott Spencer, and he said that you can learn anatomy from:
1- Books (there is a lot of great books of anatomy for artists)
2- If you can, its highly recommended for you to take some classes of real human anatomy (yeah from inside, cutting dead people), but, if you have no time for that, well, consider the first option, and also, there is a third one.
3- Observation, well this is really important. Consider this as a must. Because regardless of studying many years on books, people are different. Anatomy will follow a standard, but people will always be different, so observation increases your perception, cognition, feeling of how those volumes works on different people, how their expressions are different.
Videos are great to learn sculpting techniques, but NEVER study anatomy from other people's study, as our friends already told you here, you'll learn their vision about the world, and you must find yours. That's what make a piece of art unique, and so, unique artists.
Meh, I know how it feels, but nothing is impossible (there are programmers mannn :poly142:) but seriously, I suggest you take those 3 steps I told you. You must learn how your body is made, how it works, and then, observation (photo references, real people on street - just don't stare too much or people you think you are an stalker lol).
Also, try to draw on the paper something, make some shading on it to study volumes.
Well, its really hard to know the exact path to be an artist, but there are some steps that you must do that will help to to find yours.
If you still complains about loosing your social life and friends, well, plan yourself, there is time for everything, you just must do some effort on your learning time, so you can still spend time with family and friends. This means = WORK HARD.
No pain no gain.
Good luck!:)
For sculpting I bought Scott Spencer's Digital Sculpting Human Anatomy this book is really helpful although I haven't finished it has helped me a lot and I am now starting to understand parts of muscles and how they go together.
As you can tell I am no expert I'm actually but worked for me and it may not work for you but from reading the replies there is some really good information on how to start. But the most important thing to do is just start and if it doesn't work try another way. If you really want to do this you just have to put in work anatomy is hard and takes a lot time understand I have just started and I know there is still a lot of things I don't know. Just try and go through this thread and pick some ways to start don't give up.
My goal is to be character modeler for games. That's my goal and i am sticking to it.
I have no idea of the human body, no idea about the proportion, shape, i don't even know the names of the bones or muscles, where are they, how are they move.
No i haven't draw in my life, When i was young, my mom drew whatever i need to have for the art class. Because i didn't know how draw back in then, nor do i know now.
I have Tons of books for anatomy, and i just listing the pages, looking the messy texts and not so clear pictures, and i have no idea what's going on.
I am looking a way how to start to learn anatomy, this is where i am stuck. To start drawing or to start first in Zbrush?
Its funner and faster than doing it one at a time.
I started drawing again After learning a bit in Zbrush first. Now im doing both.
Look up proportion on youtube AND or get Jesse Sandifer's Anatomy videos from http://www.cgnuggets.com/collections/frontpage?page=2 They helped me more than anything els Ive seen.
I was recommended this when I first started [ame="http://www.amazon.com/ZBrush-Digital-Sculpting-Human-Anatomy/dp/0470450266"]Amazon.com: ZBrush Digital Sculpting Human Anatomy (9780470450260): Scott Spencer: Books[/ame] Its overwhelming for a beginner and not easy to follow along with. Its still pretty dam informative but not for anyone just starting
Theres this for Drawing http://ipaintgirls.com/masterhuman.htm Its like Riven Phoenix's structure of man course EXCEPT its less annoying/Drug out and slightly easier to follow. While Rivens course it also very informative his Small bad habits made me quit halfway through his previews Hi im Riven Phoenix and welcome to the Structure of man learn to draw the figure from your mind training course
And then theres this [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Figure-Drawing-Invention-Michael-Hampton/dp/0615272819"]Amazon.com: Figure Drawing: Design and Invention (9780615272818): Michael Hampton: Books[/ame] MAAAANNN This book is awesome this Id recommend to a beginner or expert alike its easy to follow too
Take some time to watch some Zbrush speed sculpts on Youtube too those Help me a lot and usually have good music attached
And here have my Anatomy reference folders https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s04vjb12d8d3ve/Anatomy.7z
I don't really understand what do you mean doing both? I also watched some Zbrush tutorials, also was doing Zbrush tutorials, but man it's totally freak me out, i can't sculpt single head, not to thing about it doing whole body.
SO what should i so first, to sculpt in Zbrush for couple of hours, then to draw for 2-3 hours? or vise versa?
See i am a bit kind of lost, no idea what to do at firstL@
I don't really understand what do you mean doing both? I also watched some Zbrush tutorials, also was doing Zbrush tutorials, but man it's totally freak me out, i can't sculpt single head, not to thing about it doing whole body.
SO what should i so first, to sculpt in Zbrush for couple of hours, then to draw for 2-3 hours? or vise versa?
See i am a bit kind of lost, no idea what to do at firstL@
I don't care what you say, you CAN sculpt a head. It'll just come out shitty. Who cares? Just do another one and another one. Keep that up for a couple of years, and they won't be shitty any more.
I think i am going to try and see Riven Phoenix videos. Or if doesn't work, the last thing is will to attend Scott Eaton 2 courses in September.
Is there a problem with me or, the best thing i see in this is, i really like to learn anatomy in this way
To observe for example human skull, and try that to sculpt in Zbrush?
I highly recommend starting with this:
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14035
This is the most straightforward way to start drawing imo, and really gets you into thinking about shapes and geometry even in 2d. You WONT get it right straight away, but persevere and you will see results, just do one or two a day.
And finally, this will gve you one insight into drawing, you then have to pursue what interests you. For me, i am interesed in drawing in order to make good sculpts, so i am particularly interested in how artist lay out their drawings, and look for shapes that link into other shapes. I also like gesture drawing as it is a good way of getting life into a pose. I am not so interested in rendering and shading at this point in time, although i am sure it has important uses for the sculptor that i have not discovered yet.
Anyway, my point is, imo, if you cant layout an accurate, convincing well proportioned character on paper, thhen your characters will always be rubbish. Learn the fundamentals there, then pursue what interests you. I think youll find being able to draw a half decent character on paper is really very important to being a good sculptor.
More to the point, until you can visualise and describe well proportioned figures, how can you hope to correctly sculpt them?
I fell now back in the days when i should listen my friend to start to draw, but me noo, was too embarrassed to show my drawings to other people because, i see someone who know how to draw, have talent, someone started to draw at very very young age. Me starting now how to draw, i feel stupid.
But i see it's important, and i want to do it, because i want to be character artist for games. But again, i am too afraid of failure, i am damn 24 years old, someone at my age, already work in some major big studios.
And me who starting now, when should i am suppose to get first entry job? at 30? 40? 60.
I cant stand people who would rather whine than spent the effort at getting good at something. Dont be one of those people, its completely your choice.
Ill also add I didnt get into 3d until i was at least 26 i think, and a job till way after that.....age is no problem
Any more wimpering after this mega pep talk and im reporting you to the mods for being laaaame. Do some drawing!
:thumbup:
What are you passionate about? What did you do your whole life instead of making art?
Is not sudden interest in art. I was interest in art since my high school days. But i wasn't sure how to start, i was trying to draw something, and the kids see it, they started to make at jokes at me. That's really put me down, so i decide it to quick doing that, because i thought i was hopeless.
I finished high school, and attend Graphic design course for one year, there we draw life objects, but yea i took that negative energy from high school and i wasn't able to draw anything.
The teacher did everything to give me some advice, and give me some very simple things to draw.
Then i go interest in 3D, but i wasn't sure what to do. The first thing came in my mind was special effects. I couldn't fit there because my programming and logical brain sucks/
So i decide it to focus on character/creature thing.
But is to bad we don't have any art school like life drawing something like that, traditional etc. We have in our neighborhood, but the price there is shocking.
link
Here's a video of every drawing he did in those 9 years
http://vimeo.com/29510470
If you really bust your butt perhaps you can cut that time shorter, so you better get started now!
http://alienthink.com/
Here is a thorough tutorial set on anatomy
Riven Pheonix is for intermediates. You need to go back to line structure mate.
[ame="
And @Sir. Justin;
No creating art is about a show off, its not about dedication or anything not even people who would love to create. This is about how many hits will I get for meh post.
I have this
its good for beginners and only 20$
Polycount is a great place to learn, but if you are not finding an way, maybe you should look for some art courses too.
Remember, it's never too late to start doing something. If you really want to do something, go for it!
Good God sir are you even reading the posts? I gave you some advices in my first or second post. =\