Learn Maya if you already know 3ds max
polycounter lvl 13
[UPDATE] ((Today is the Last day of the Sale!!) I am running a christmas sale on this course only till new years for $9 dollars!(Udemy doesn't let you set it any lower) So if you were on the fence before about taking the course or if you wouldnt mind sharing this on your social network I would be super pumped! I hope you all have a wonderful holiday!
Christmas Sale URL:
https://www.udemy.com/3dsmax-to-maya/?couponCode=Christmas2013
Hey guys, I just wanted to share with you a video tutorial class I created for learning Maya if you already know 3ds max. If you need to learn Maya for a new job or just a student that is trying to get ahead of the curve this video series should get you up to speed quick.
Polycount has been a great resource to me through out the years so Ive created a discount code "polycount" for anyone that wants to pick it up on the cheap. If you guys have any feedback or want to see more tutorials like this let me know. Thanks!
https://www.udemy.com/3dsmax-to-maya/?couponCode=polycount
Christmas Sale URL:
https://www.udemy.com/3dsmax-to-maya/?couponCode=Christmas2013
Hey guys, I just wanted to share with you a video tutorial class I created for learning Maya if you already know 3ds max. If you need to learn Maya for a new job or just a student that is trying to get ahead of the curve this video series should get you up to speed quick.
Polycount has been a great resource to me through out the years so Ive created a discount code "polycount" for anyone that wants to pick it up on the cheap. If you guys have any feedback or want to see more tutorials like this let me know. Thanks!
https://www.udemy.com/3dsmax-to-maya/?couponCode=polycount
Replies
haha high five mate - ive done the same the past days..
It's ok, I can work just fine with it but I honestly hate the fucking thing, the menus are a mess, the UVW editor is incomplete and I miss modifiers like the desert misses the rain. I still don't know what that weird ass menu that appears when you press space, why do my normals get fucked when I do a bridge? Among other things that really annoy me. I guess with 10+ years using 3dsmax you get used to certain things that you only realize you love them and you'd miss them when you loose them.
I still use 3dsmax at home to stay sane, as I feel complete modeling freedom with it. Although in the end, it ended up being a good experience because I got sorta good at both and I can and do use both at ease although my heart it still with max.
That said, Maya is a painful reality I have to live with so I will deffo be checking this out and I thank you for putting this together, very very useful!
Edit: Also, I'm going to grab this topic and go into a bit of a rant, it's a topic that surprisingly it's not very discussed.
Why oh why does a studio forces a modeling package on you? I mean, I know why, but WHY?
It's like an artist that spends years painting with a specific kind brush then he gets a job and is asked to paint with a complete different kind of brush. Yes he's still doing art, yes he's still using a brush and can do the same things with it, but why are they forcing it down his throat?
Let artists use whatever the fuck they want to use, let them feel comfortable with the tools they like so they can deliver better art. Get a tech artist coding an exporter for the different modeling packages, or just use .FBX, works for Epic's engine, Frostbite and others why wouldn't it work for you?
You're going to hate anything that's not your beloved software because at the back of your mind you're always thinking "My app could do this, why is it such a pain to do it in this new program" XO
I've tried Max and cursed at it a few times myself, but I do love the modeling tools, they rock
Yeah I hear you, I taught myself basic modeling and UV'ing with Maya for DICE, but it's not great. Both programs feel dated in interface, but Maya is just the worst in terms of UI. I feel it's missing a few key features (or makes them less accessible) that speed things up a lot for me in Max. Like no proper Edge Constraining but rather putting it in a separate tool.
But being able to use Python is very nice, coupled with Qt UI. Too bad MEL commands, which PyMEL still mirrors in functionality, are kind of shitty and limited. I feel i can do more with Maxscript.
That said, the I imagine the reason studios stick with one app is for consistency and things like pipeline. At Dice some people use Max, but it's not ideal, even with FBX:
- Y-up vs Z-up in either app. You can "fix" it in the export settings, but it just adds a weird "pre-rotation" to the mesh that isn't the same as a aproper fix. It gives big problems when combining meshes that originated from different apps (like destruction models or LODs), the axes get misaligned.
- Normals and tangents tend to be different. Autodesk obviously hasn't bothered to fix this properly and there's still specific issues with some apps.
- I created an export script for Maya that speeds up exporting immensely and makes it consistent for all artists using the file. It would be a lot of work to maintain both applications...
All in all, from a technical point of view you easily get locked into something an application does, and it becomes hard to account for another app. Or at least, it's hard to convince people to fix these issues, as the majority will be fine with the way things are.e/ let's all just use modo, fight the system etc. It genuinely looks like it has more of a future at this point than Max or Maya do.
I agree, for modeling it doesn't make much of a difference, when you get a little deeper into the pipeline like animation or scene building it starts to get a bit more important. The axis orientation is a pain for modelers because they have to rotate their model, its a nightmare for animators and TD's because they have animated rotating joints and not only do the axes need to work together but the rotation order (XYZ, ZYX, YXZ ect...) needs to work. The curves need to be interpreted correctly and on and on.
It's also due to cost. Autodesk hands out discounts for bulk licensing but if you want a seat of the other software you have to cough up full price. Then, that artist normally needs a seat of the studio favorite software to get access to the in house tools.
You would think for a company that owns both and has focuses a lot of energy on syncing the apps together and providing some bridges to cross over, they would make mixing and matching software easy and simple, with some kind of bundle.
But wait look they have this, the Entertainment Creation Bundle. Check the "included software" page:
3dsmax
Maya
Mudbox
SoftImage
MotionBuilder
Sketchbook
Sweet deal huh, perfect for studios looking to dual use 3dsmax and Maya.
Now click on the buy page, hey that's almost a decent price, but wait what!? You have to choose Max or Maya... Son of a BITCH. What the hell autodesk!? Could you make it any harder for studios to buy and use your products?
How hard would it be for autodesk to allow studios to bulk buy licenses and define with packages, they cost the same. How hard is it to allow customers to switch a copy of one for a copy of another?
We want 20 seats of Autodesk software, 17 in max and 3 in Maya. Right now that's 17 at the bulk price (too bad you didn't get a full 20 seats of max you probably get an even better discount) and 3 seats of Maya and full price.
3yrs later the demographics of the studio change and you want 19 seats of maya (not sure why but go with it) and 1 seats of max, you have to do some more wrangling and playing with the numbers to see if the discounts work out.
Unfortunately that factors into candidate selection.
You also have to deal with peoples personal bias and ego. People often assume software is "stupid" when it doesn't work like their beloved package. Sometimes that endless bitching leads to tools being written and improvements being made but most of the time the FNG just drives everyone nuts by complaining and trash talking. Which puts everyone else in the awkward position of having to explain that its their understanding that is lacking, not the package.
If you couple that with an attitude of "I'm the hottest shit on the planet because I just got hired, you'all are doing it wrong", which usually doesn't show up in the interviews but manages to work its way to the surface by the time they start. Normally that comes from insecurity and a need to prove themselves, which I understand, but still its stress no one really needs and sometimes its best to just side step that issue.
From there it was 3D Studio (dos version) then Softimage on some rackedy old SGI machines, then the revolution started for real and we got 3DS Max, and around 1998 we got Maya.
At that point I prefered the workings of Maya over Max, since somehow it felt a little more like Softimage at its core, which is what I was used to using.
Over the years I´ve often looked at Max and really wanted to start digging into it, since it just seems, tool wise, like a more compelling package for games work.
But I still always end up back in Maya for one reason or another. I think the UI coupled with the navigation in Max just rubbs me the wrong way or something.
What I´d like is the modeling tools from Modo and Max thrown in a blender, with the "overall" UI feel from Maya.
But I strongly agree that we need to really settle on a fixed set of values for space axises... axeez... oh you know, which direction is UP!
And also on unit scale.. Make these damn packages use real work units at the right scale, at the start, by default so people actually start modeling stuff not to look super silly next to other things due to scale :P
fek it.. fek it all.. Lets all rebell and go use Lightwave!
I´ll toast to that... video toast.. hurr hurr hur... get it.... huhh.. video... toaster..
oh I crack my self up sometimes!
Now, to find my medication...
hehe - yes, there quite nice tools ind things in max youll miss in maya. You can improve alot with some plugins. Also keep in mind, maya interface was originally made by programmers - maybe that explains alot :P
Learning the opposite - what i like in max is that there tons of videos tutorials out there - when i started with maya 4 years ago - there wasnt much for maya.
knowing both programms is a good thing - i would prefer maya after a long time with modeling, but max has some very usefull tools too.
John
It really doesn't matter if you're starting out. Just try 3dsmax for a bit, then maya, then modo and go with whichever you think it's the best for you, that's my best advice really. They all do more or less the same, it's all up to personal tastes.
Mmmmm food...
Nice going Brad! I'll be checkin this out myself.
Now on the subject of export and pipeline, I think it simply has to be a conscious decision made early on by the tech team, very carefully. Almost every time that a studio has a super strict Max or Maya-specific pipeline, you can be almost certain that the head of the tech team happens to be a Max lover, or a Maya lover. The kind of guy that has always been using this program, knows it inside out, can script the hell out of it, and jokes about how weak the other app is
And on the other end of the spectrum, there are some very solid app-agnostic engines out there, like Unity, UDK and Crysis. So at the end of the day the whole argument is kind of invalid anyways
Aaaanyways - I should add that even tho I wish that artists didn't have to switch apps for a new job, it is indeed a reality to cope with ; so huge props go to Bradley for putting that guide together, as it will be very useful to many artists in that situation.
Or they might find out the way they do it is really tedious and incredibly manual in their app of choice but automated in the other app. Yes both apps do roughly the same things but they don't always do them the same way or as well. Then again sometimes its the reverse, a studio does it the long tedious way and the new guy has a quick new awesome way of working that revolutionizes the way everyone works. Purest studios miss out on those kinds of advancements. But then again, the way Autodesk licensees software almost forces studios to be purest...
If like you said the tech team invests time to maintain two separate sets of tools or finds a way to write the tools in a language that can be wrapped or ported to either app then its less of an issue but even if both apps support a common langue like Python they often do little more than expose Mel or MaxScript to it, you still have different methods of working sitting side by side.
If they have to write and maintain two sets of tools it's just a pain in the ass and their time is better spent somewhere else. You also have to factor in the time it takes to write one set of tools and then the other, or their development is delayed until both methods work. Sure you can expand the tech art team to handle max and Maya but a studio is more likely to just give into the tech artists preference and hire less workers that use what they use and avoid the whole "nut-ah... ur app is stup!d" arguments that pop up.
I stumbled across this today, congrats on the video release. In the Basic UI Layout video, you described the Modeling Toolkit Panel as a "fake modifier panel" and that you'll explain in another video why you don't use it. As an Autodesk Maya developer, this intrigued me enough to purchase your class. In fact, it was the only thing I cared about as I already know 3ds max and Maya very well. It was very disappointing to have gone through all of the videos in your class only to discover that you never once mentioned why you don't use the Modeling Toolkit Panel as you said you would in the Basic UI Layout video.
Anyway, I'm still very much interested in all feedback from you, or anyone else, about the Modeling Toolkit.
Best Regards,
Arash Keissami
Thanks so much for being so generous on your knowledge. I'm not program software geek but I'd like to learn some more
That being said, I feel super fortunate to work at a studio that works with both programs. I'd say it's pretty close to half Max, half Maya users...and even then, probably leans to the Max side.
Thanks again for putting in the time, Brad!
While you are right, there's still a huge difference imo.
In max I can model non destructively to a large degree, and automatic non destructive chamfering is such a boost to my modeling and rework/changes.
Spline modeling is also a big help for lots of types of objects..the modifier stack is almost a must have for me.
I have a working knowledge of maya, but i feel quite handicapped in it compared to max, even though it's "technically" the same.
Edit: Worked out as under 13 quid in GBP! awesome deal
♪ Thank you for being a friend ♪
I wish there was a small section covering the creation of a bone, basic hierarchy and skining.
https://www.3dmotive.com/f107001
https://www.3dmotive.com/f102301
so all I can say is thanks for the videos man, great work.
Also on a side note my Maya to Max video should be up by next friday! I will be starting a new thread with a email signup for any one that is interested in that. Cheers!
by myself and pretty much just interested in the common modeling
techniques part..how would you rate the usefulness of that part of the tutorial?
Christmas Sale URL:
https://www.udemy.com/3dsmax-to-maya/?couponCode=Christmas2013