Backstory: Both Seforin and I went to school with her, the school sucked. She graduated and went on an anti Art Institute rampage when she couldn't find a job, starting support groups and such. Now she's a stripper.
*looks at Seforin and Polyhertz folios* So she never really bothered to try anything on her own did she, just expected to be taught talent and creativity by the school?
I feel sorry for people who think that if you only get an artistic degree, you will get great jobs delivered on a plate.
If you want to succeed as an artist, doing your homework because your techer tells you to won't be enought. You have to do it because you love it!
The same goes for design, music, acting, dancing, sports etc.
School is what you make of it. Can spend all the money in the world on a degree, but if you didn't put the effort into getting anything from it, you're SOL. But, with that being said, it is a very tough market right now for new artists, and the AI schools aren't all that they toot their horn to be.
The one I attended, one of our basic modeling teachers had never opened Max before teaching it, he was an experienced clay-mation animator. (His favorite method of teaching was giving us free tutorials he found online, and letting us work on our own.) I managed to have him for both of my fundamental modeling classes, and by the time we moved on to intermediate classes our teachers were so angry because they had to teach half of us all over from the beginning. And even though we complained regularly to the academic directors and other staff, no one simply cared.
So yeah, I agree...but only to an extent. If she's speaking out like this and really she just sucks, then I agree completely with what else is being said (and I am also leaning in that direction because I cannot seem to find a portfolio for her either). But if she really is down on her luck, then I pity her. She definitely didn't make a very good choice, now anyone who might hire her might do so for the wrong reasons. :P
I've raged on AiFL in the past but I think their biggest issue is they don't fail students. And I'm blown away by the fact that the tuitions have doubled since I graduated
On the other hand. For profit schools do over charge and do make you the student have to do more individual research versus being taught and having access to the tools you need. If you need to do everything on your own as the excuse here. Then why the hell did you go to school in the first place?
I recently paid a visit to the AI here for a game jam sponsored by them. My god it was horrible. The programs they were supposed to have installed they did not. We also could not get them to install any additional programs as the IT was from a outside national company. Fucking worthless.
On the other hand. For profit schools do over charge and do make you the student have to do more individual research versus being taught and having access to the tools you need. If you need to do everything on your own as the excuse here. Then why the hell did you go to school in the first place?
I recently paid a visit to the AI here for a game jam sponsored by them. My god it was horrible. The programs they were supposed to have installed they did not. We also could not get them to install any additional programs as the IT was from a outside national company. Fucking worthless.
I agree, i was going to go to ai for animation, said i had to have a portfolio, i got a tour and got to see some of the classes. just from learning here at polycount it seemed i was way ahead of most people there and the person giving me the tour said i was the only student that had ever come in with a portfolio with 3d work or any animation in it, i thought it was a big joke.
-girls everywhere trying to get into this industry facepalm-
hey dont get me wrong I have no quirrels on the opposite sex getting into the field
On the other hand I have a problem when one thinks being a "girl" will get you a job because you are one.
You work equally as hard as the rest of us you put in your time blood sweat and tears, and you can have 1 leg and 3 toes at that point and I still respect you if you have done your time/work.
It's not like
"oh im puerto rican , there not many of those in the game industry, they gotta give me job because of my foreign charm! "
Though she may not have been the best student, I think there is some truth to her claim that AI is overpriced for the job field it prepares you for.
You really can't fault AI though, they're a business. Offer courses for fields that people are passionate about and you can charge a good bit more than other schools. The problem is that it's monopolized, I just hope in the future there are more schools out there teaching these skills so the only choice isn't 80 grand. The economy isn't helping anyone find a job either.
Yeah, that's why I was facepalming... like, way to think that about our gender that way. It's kinda insulting to other girls. Like, no hun, don't bother breaking a nail on the keyboard, just show up with a low-cut top.
I've been working on my portfolio for years, and have applied to places and still no job (yet), and I accept that and am glad I wasn't just brought in and got paid every week, cause if I wasn't up to the job, then I don't wanna be there.
hey dont get me wrong I have no quirrels on the opposite sex getting into the field
On the other hand I have a problem when one thinks being a "girl" will get you a job because you are one.
You work equally as hard as the rest of us you put in your time blood sweat and tears, and you can have 1 leg and 3 toes at that point and I still respect you if you have done your time/work.
It's not like
"oh im puerto rican , there not many of those in the game industry, they gotta give me job because of my foreign charm! "
Hey Guys lets not forget that there are many for-profit schools that are under federal investigation. I think this needs to happen more often. I went to Collins College and I know that they got into some trouble with the feds. I also don't like the fact that Goldman Sachs is partially owning these schools.
It's ironic that not only she exactly the kind of person I would probably not want to work with, but she's also the kind of person we must NEVER tell the location of the fort.
I'm not being general here, I'm going by the whole thread and people's accounts with her in the past. She's probably really cool, and I have nothing against any sort of person so much as I do have something against people going to game school for any reason less than they are passionately interested in games and technology and making a real Terminator one day from all the data the scientist guys get from multiplayer sessions.
:x
I'm really sick of marketers trying to be developers. It is one thing to know how to market - that is absolutely essential especially for small or indie outfits. It is completely another thing to pump out trash just because you know how to use Unity and that fat-Pete spends his time stacking up digital currency in crap games that only he seems to know about. And that there are 1,000,000 fat-Petes to tap.
If she learned anything, if she loved to make games in any aspect of them, she would not be a stripper, or she would be both stripping and making games and being online and being part of the culture that produces them. If she develops indie or does a lot of time online, okay then, that's something else.
Personally, anyone who wants a job vs making their own company is a fool anyway, because none of these companies have really been around long enough to produce the demand they produce... the future is indie and as common as records are for musicians... the people who still follow that "game dev path" of yesterday are in for hard times... stripping and such... it's like being an actor. Anyone can act and EARN on youtube. ANYONE. IF you do what you do GOOD, what you do will be SUCCESSFUL. So, I have no pity for some punk who goes to school for acting and ends up waiting tables... where's your youtube channel? Website? Where's YOUR work? Because this is not shoveling coal. Anyone can make a game in 2010. Anyone who takes the time to learn what they need to learn to do it, and team up with others who learned what they needed to learn.
I have no pity for punks who go to school and cant find a job in the age where all it takes is action, action, action. I have no pity for people who think working for EA is the only way to go, and start stripping when they fail instead of use the tools at their exposure. Where is her own project? She doesn't have one. She spends her time at bars and parties and thinks it's all coosh. Nope, I have no pity for any "scholar" who can't find success in any aspect of any kind of entertainment creation today when lowly blackhat spammers and marketers for CPA advertisers shit games, memes, mash up videos, and even rap beats one after the other. laughing their way to the bank at all the "real artists" and "trained professionals" who still think they need to clock in somewhere to clock dollars....
Bend over, grab that dollar, and shake that booty, if that is indeed the job you decide to spend each of your professional moments performing. The whole world is open for business. If you're not getting yours, then you're doing it wrong. People are still gonna go to school for things we learn overnight from youtube though. Go figure. lolol.
I'm really sick of marketers trying to be developers. And I'm sick of people taking the internet not so seriously that they can't see the gold mine is right in front of their face. Her failure is her own fault in the case of VIDEO GAMES. Because you can make a puzzle game, then a side scroller, free up the Z axis and turn it to an FPS, put in TPS controller and have a 3rd person game after those... where there is a will, there is a way.
The only challenge for any person on the internet is simply to find a good team to work with that appreciates each other. Stripping is her own incompetence, regardless how crappy the school is. Schools are crappy. lol.
And it is hard to make a team. But if you're a gamer, you're with other gamers and modders all the time... what's the problem? She is. I'm a gamer, and I know how to produce steady traffic, and i know a lot of modders, and a lot of marketers, and honest marvelopers. The industry is open, if the individual is open...
A good point is raised about the person in the video. Beyond her stripping income. What is she doing? Is she working on a mod or indie? Taking classes at CC or else? Going to Game Jams and IGDA meetings. The video didn't inform us and the people who knew her only knew her from school.
afaik she never had a portfolio. By the time it was getting close to graduation she had already given up all hope, realizing the school had taught her nothing and that she'd squandered all her free time over the last few years. So instead she made a graphics design portfolio for graduation, and the school let her get away with it because they "felt sorry for her", as she complained about basically everything all the time.
Really It was fine she wanted to make the school better by pointing out the issues, but she made everyone elses lives hell whenever they were forced into team projects with her. Their was a 1/2 year group project for instance where everyone knew what we wanted to work on, but she by herself didn't like. Instead of going along with majority rule, she complained to the dean saying we were being unfair and sexist (or something like that) and got the group split in half and each had to choose new projects. Then when we started those up she complained about getting too much work, and quit the class by week 3, but everyone else was stuck then for the next half year with the mess she made.
The only work I can ever remember her doing at all in fact was some aquarium level in ut2004, which wasn't bad, but everytime the editor would crash she'd either start complaining very loudly or cry. I think she ran out of the room crying in a few classes.
Oh, also, Andrew Jones painted on her boobs at GDC Austin in 2006
k... all kidding aside... why the shit is remi keeping tabs on this girl? i mean she's got big boobs... buuuuuuuuuuuttttt.... she's apparently a real.... wait... i think i answered my own question
Regardless of the fact that she really seems to have gone out of her way to exploit her gender, the point she made about her degree being worthless is entirely right. This is really an accepted fact around here but is often not made clear to students because it's not in the schools financial interest to do so.
Imagine how popular these schools would be if they openly stated your degree will be nothing but a bullet point on a page no one will read unless they can get through your portfolio and even then, probably won't care about.
Oh, also, Andrew Jones painted on her boobs at GDC Austin in 2006
Did he tip her?
Seriously, though, it's great that there's finally some government investigation into the pricing models of these kinds of schools, but the fact that she just happens to be a stripper adds an extra layer of sleaze to the story that the network simply couldn't resist.
Imagine the same story, except instead of stripping, you've got some young guy flipping burgers or washing cars. That's not news. Instead, 'motivated', 'passionate' blonde art student, 'forced' into the seedy underworld of giving lap dances to sweaty, leering business executives by the evil Goldman Sachs-owned Art Institute of Broken Dreams.
Now that's news.
Let's hope that something constructive actually comes from these Federal investigations into their pricing.
Too many guys have the same problem as her with degrees. You can not be an artist in demand in 1 year, you need at least 10000 hours to be good in something.
Regardless of the fact that she really seems to have gone out of her way to exploit her gender, the point she made about her degree being worthless is entirely right. This is really an accepted fact around here but is often not made clear to students because it's not in the schools financial interest to do so.
Imagine how popular these schools would be if they openly stated your degree will be nothing but a bullet point on a page no one will read unless they can get through your portfolio and even then, probably won't care about.
"It's just a damn piece of paper!"
There are a lot of arguments to support something called "academic inflation", meaning that a degree is now worth the equivalent of a diploma from a few years ago because there are so many people in the work place with them, probably working jobs totally unrelated to the degree subject as well.
even less capable artist want to learn more if they have a chance. and would improve it even after the school.
regardless she is good or not bad student or good student.
but 70.000$ for art degree? damn that pure ripoff
except if the majority of the class turn to be superstar once they graduated. which is i haven't seen single AI graduates reach CG news front page.
I don't know why, but we seems been indoctrinated by the importance of degree since we are kid.
and i know some institution are taking advantage of that.
Pretty much every artist I've talked to in the games biz has told me their degree in 3d art was a ripoff, same is the case with many current students I've talked to who feel their school, despite having a few stand out amazing teachers, is ripping them off. I spent around ~$45k for a school with mostly shit teachers and equipment.
It is astounding that schools seem so clueless when it comes to setting up a curriculum for the games industry artist. If students are entering a college with a vague idea of what they want to do in terms of game industry art, give them general intro classes for all disciplines, but once they've decided to be a animator, character, technical, effects, enviro, etc artist, they should be funneled into classes that support getting their skills up to the minimum industry standard. This way rather than having a bunch of graduates who will never make it into the game biz, they weeded out the ones who weren't going to make it anyways BEFORE getting their degree. Oh wait, those colleges are too busy seeing dollar signs.
Granted, pretty much all of us have gotten into the game industry thru self education alongside awesome online resources such as Polycount, but wouldn't it be great if a company could look at a degree as 'holy shit, this guy made it thru that college? that is saying something!' along with a badass portfolio at graduation. Instead it seems common sentiment amongst those who went thru these game art degrees are telling people to NOT make the same mistake, but rather go to a traditional art college and learn the digital tools on their own time. Colleges such as AI do create a false hope that that when a degree is achieved, a career job is decently easy to obtain. So why doesn't some college take it upon themselves to actually follow thru with this promise?
This way rather than having a bunch of graduates who will never make it into the game biz, they weeded out the ones who weren't going to make it anyways BEFORE getting their degree. Oh wait, those colleges are too busy seeing dollar signs.
well, thats very idealistic and all, but the school would probably run out of business the next day if they started weeding out the students who'd never make it in the industry.
they could justify it like this: if we didn't take in the bad students, we couldn't afford to be here to teach the good students.
the real reason is that the people at the top doesn't give a flying shit. they're in it to make money, and hiring a ton of teachers who barely knows how to turn on a computer, makes business sense. more teachers, means more students equals more money.
Argh, it drives me crazy when people go "you sheep trying to work for a game studio why don't you go indie!" Maybe people don't want to risk their own money or investor money in a project that may or may not break even after a year of work. When you boil it all down it's starting your own business.
I have no debt and enough savings to go a year or two without work but I honestly don't want to deal with the headaches of starting a business just yet.
Oh yeah, when I was looking for work recently about half the job postings asked for a 4 year degree - so yeah, I don't know anyone in charge of hiring so I have no idea how much they weigh a degree but from recent stories it sure does help getting jobs in other countries.
Imagine the same story, except instead of stripping, you've got some young guy flipping burgers or washing cars. That's not news. Instead, 'motivated', 'passionate' blonde art student, 'forced' into the seedy underworld of giving lap dances to sweaty, leering business executives by the evil Goldman Sachs-owned Art Institute of Broken Dreams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hinN9gTV7ek[/ame]
Replies
Backstory: Both Seforin and I went to school with her, the school sucked. She graduated and went on an anti Art Institute rampage when she couldn't find a job, starting support groups and such. Now she's a stripper.
oh god I am a terrible person
I didn't actually listen to the video, I just glanced at a few things through it and realized it was an actual news report and kind of giggled.
http://instantrimshot.com/
..
Anyway, call me sexiest, but I doubt her art was any good.
She was destined to be a stripper anyway. Who in there right mind goes from video games to stripping.
Dumb.
Anyway,
brb, googling some new stripper moves.
A college grad from Fort "spring break" Lauderdale, wound up as a stripper... I'm shocked... truly shocked.
Also echoing Vig.
If you want to succeed as an artist, doing your homework because your techer tells you to won't be enought. You have to do it because you love it!
The same goes for design, music, acting, dancing, sports etc.
You have to work for it!!
The one I attended, one of our basic modeling teachers had never opened Max before teaching it, he was an experienced clay-mation animator. (His favorite method of teaching was giving us free tutorials he found online, and letting us work on our own.) I managed to have him for both of my fundamental modeling classes, and by the time we moved on to intermediate classes our teachers were so angry because they had to teach half of us all over from the beginning. And even though we complained regularly to the academic directors and other staff, no one simply cared.
So yeah, I agree...but only to an extent. If she's speaking out like this and really she just sucks, then I agree completely with what else is being said (and I am also leaning in that direction because I cannot seem to find a portfolio for her either). But if she really is down on her luck, then I pity her. She definitely didn't make a very good choice, now anyone who might hire her might do so for the wrong reasons. :P
I just will leave a quote I remember word for word she had said in front of one of my old classes
*As she was speaking to another girl in my program
"We dont need to worry , well get jobs because were girls"
To answer the questions
No not good
No , no portfolio
In a simple 1 word she was a
i'm just sayin'.
I've raged on AiFL in the past but I think their biggest issue is they don't fail students. And I'm blown away by the fact that the tuitions have doubled since I graduated
I recently paid a visit to the AI here for a game jam sponsored by them. My god it was horrible. The programs they were supposed to have installed they did not. We also could not get them to install any additional programs as the IT was from a outside national company. Fucking worthless.
-girls everywhere trying to get into this industry facepalm-
I agree, i was going to go to ai for animation, said i had to have a portfolio, i got a tour and got to see some of the classes. just from learning here at polycount it seemed i was way ahead of most people there and the person giving me the tour said i was the only student that had ever come in with a portfolio with 3d work or any animation in it, i thought it was a big joke.
hey dont get me wrong I have no quirrels on the opposite sex getting into the field
On the other hand I have a problem when one thinks being a "girl" will get you a job because you are one.
You work equally as hard as the rest of us you put in your time blood sweat and tears, and you can have 1 leg and 3 toes at that point and I still respect you if you have done your time/work.
It's not like
"oh im puerto rican , there not many of those in the game industry, they gotta give me job because of my foreign charm! "
/facepalm
You really can't fault AI though, they're a business. Offer courses for fields that people are passionate about and you can charge a good bit more than other schools. The problem is that it's monopolized, I just hope in the future there are more schools out there teaching these skills so the only choice isn't 80 grand. The economy isn't helping anyone find a job either.
down here in the south, man, we hunt quirrels.
I've been working on my portfolio for years, and have applied to places and still no job (yet), and I accept that and am glad I wasn't just brought in and got paid every week, cause if I wasn't up to the job, then I don't wanna be there.
I'm glad I managed to get a spot at a good (enough) public college over here, I can't even imagine having to pay for the shitty degree I'm getting.
are you certain it was an igda meeting
ahh so thats what IGDA meetings are really for!
I'm not being general here, I'm going by the whole thread and people's accounts with her in the past. She's probably really cool, and I have nothing against any sort of person so much as I do have something against people going to game school for any reason less than they are passionately interested in games and technology and making a real Terminator one day from all the data the scientist guys get from multiplayer sessions.
:x
I'm really sick of marketers trying to be developers. It is one thing to know how to market - that is absolutely essential especially for small or indie outfits. It is completely another thing to pump out trash just because you know how to use Unity and that fat-Pete spends his time stacking up digital currency in crap games that only he seems to know about. And that there are 1,000,000 fat-Petes to tap.
If she learned anything, if she loved to make games in any aspect of them, she would not be a stripper, or she would be both stripping and making games and being online and being part of the culture that produces them. If she develops indie or does a lot of time online, okay then, that's something else.
Personally, anyone who wants a job vs making their own company is a fool anyway, because none of these companies have really been around long enough to produce the demand they produce... the future is indie and as common as records are for musicians... the people who still follow that "game dev path" of yesterday are in for hard times... stripping and such... it's like being an actor. Anyone can act and EARN on youtube. ANYONE. IF you do what you do GOOD, what you do will be SUCCESSFUL. So, I have no pity for some punk who goes to school for acting and ends up waiting tables... where's your youtube channel? Website? Where's YOUR work? Because this is not shoveling coal. Anyone can make a game in 2010. Anyone who takes the time to learn what they need to learn to do it, and team up with others who learned what they needed to learn.
I have no pity for punks who go to school and cant find a job in the age where all it takes is action, action, action. I have no pity for people who think working for EA is the only way to go, and start stripping when they fail instead of use the tools at their exposure. Where is her own project? She doesn't have one. She spends her time at bars and parties and thinks it's all coosh. Nope, I have no pity for any "scholar" who can't find success in any aspect of any kind of entertainment creation today when lowly blackhat spammers and marketers for CPA advertisers shit games, memes, mash up videos, and even rap beats one after the other. laughing their way to the bank at all the "real artists" and "trained professionals" who still think they need to clock in somewhere to clock dollars....
Bend over, grab that dollar, and shake that booty, if that is indeed the job you decide to spend each of your professional moments performing. The whole world is open for business. If you're not getting yours, then you're doing it wrong. People are still gonna go to school for things we learn overnight from youtube though. Go figure. lolol.
I'm really sick of marketers trying to be developers. And I'm sick of people taking the internet not so seriously that they can't see the gold mine is right in front of their face. Her failure is her own fault in the case of VIDEO GAMES. Because you can make a puzzle game, then a side scroller, free up the Z axis and turn it to an FPS, put in TPS controller and have a 3rd person game after those... where there is a will, there is a way.
The only challenge for any person on the internet is simply to find a good team to work with that appreciates each other. Stripping is her own incompetence, regardless how crappy the school is. Schools are crappy. lol.
And it is hard to make a team. But if you're a gamer, you're with other gamers and modders all the time... what's the problem? She is. I'm a gamer, and I know how to produce steady traffic, and i know a lot of modders, and a lot of marketers, and honest marvelopers. The industry is open, if the individual is open...
Really It was fine she wanted to make the school better by pointing out the issues, but she made everyone elses lives hell whenever they were forced into team projects with her. Their was a 1/2 year group project for instance where everyone knew what we wanted to work on, but she by herself didn't like. Instead of going along with majority rule, she complained to the dean saying we were being unfair and sexist (or something like that) and got the group split in half and each had to choose new projects. Then when we started those up she complained about getting too much work, and quit the class by week 3, but everyone else was stuck then for the next half year with the mess she made.
The only work I can ever remember her doing at all in fact was some aquarium level in ut2004, which wasn't bad, but everytime the editor would crash she'd either start complaining very loudly or cry. I think she ran out of the room crying in a few classes.
Oh, also, Andrew Jones painted on her boobs at GDC Austin in 2006
Imagine how popular these schools would be if they openly stated your degree will be nothing but a bullet point on a page no one will read unless they can get through your portfolio and even then, probably won't care about.
Did he tip her?
Seriously, though, it's great that there's finally some government investigation into the pricing models of these kinds of schools, but the fact that she just happens to be a stripper adds an extra layer of sleaze to the story that the network simply couldn't resist.
Imagine the same story, except instead of stripping, you've got some young guy flipping burgers or washing cars. That's not news. Instead, 'motivated', 'passionate' blonde art student, 'forced' into the seedy underworld of giving lap dances to sweaty, leering business executives by the evil Goldman Sachs-owned Art Institute of Broken Dreams.
Now that's news.
Let's hope that something constructive actually comes from these Federal investigations into their pricing.
At least she can work as stripper.
Holy FUCK. I never went to college, self taught. Got just under half that debt, though, lulz
There are a lot of arguments to support something called "academic inflation", meaning that a degree is now worth the equivalent of a diploma from a few years ago because there are so many people in the work place with them, probably working jobs totally unrelated to the degree subject as well.
regardless she is good or not bad student or good student.
but 70.000$ for art degree? damn that pure ripoff
except if the majority of the class turn to be superstar once they graduated. which is i haven't seen single AI graduates reach CG news front page.
I don't know why, but we seems been indoctrinated by the importance of degree since we are kid.
and i know some institution are taking advantage of that.
someone should write thesis about this.
It is astounding that schools seem so clueless when it comes to setting up a curriculum for the games industry artist. If students are entering a college with a vague idea of what they want to do in terms of game industry art, give them general intro classes for all disciplines, but once they've decided to be a animator, character, technical, effects, enviro, etc artist, they should be funneled into classes that support getting their skills up to the minimum industry standard. This way rather than having a bunch of graduates who will never make it into the game biz, they weeded out the ones who weren't going to make it anyways BEFORE getting their degree. Oh wait, those colleges are too busy seeing dollar signs.
Granted, pretty much all of us have gotten into the game industry thru self education alongside awesome online resources such as Polycount, but wouldn't it be great if a company could look at a degree as 'holy shit, this guy made it thru that college? that is saying something!' along with a badass portfolio at graduation. Instead it seems common sentiment amongst those who went thru these game art degrees are telling people to NOT make the same mistake, but rather go to a traditional art college and learn the digital tools on their own time. Colleges such as AI do create a false hope that that when a degree is achieved, a career job is decently easy to obtain. So why doesn't some college take it upon themselves to actually follow thru with this promise?
please dont use the band Tool's old wrench logo to describe her. she isnt an awesome band
fixed
And his portfolio was thrown around for the lols.
well, thats very idealistic and all, but the school would probably run out of business the next day if they started weeding out the students who'd never make it in the industry.
they could justify it like this: if we didn't take in the bad students, we couldn't afford to be here to teach the good students.
the real reason is that the people at the top doesn't give a flying shit. they're in it to make money, and hiring a ton of teachers who barely knows how to turn on a computer, makes business sense. more teachers, means more students equals more money.
I have no debt and enough savings to go a year or two without work but I honestly don't want to deal with the headaches of starting a business just yet.
Oh yeah, when I was looking for work recently about half the job postings asked for a 4 year degree - so yeah, I don't know anyone in charge of hiring so I have no idea how much they weigh a degree but from recent stories it sure does help getting jobs in other countries.
haha man, that sums it up nicely!