TF2 - Polypack - Elbagast

1
If anybody is still visiting this thread after all this time, you might be interested to know that I've since done an updated version of the pack, you can see it here:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1635660

Otherwise everything below this point is left as it was at the end of the contest.

Seeing this contest on the TF2 blog got me thinking about things to make, then inspiration hit, so I'm in. I've been wanting to have a go at making some kind of rocket launcher, but was unclear what direction to take with one, until this contest that is...


Everything has now been submitted. This post now has a set of notes and images detailing the final models below the fake update page image.

TF2_Airbourne_Armaments_Promo_by_Elbagast.png



The Airborne Armaments - a soldier weapon pack
We all know the Soldier isn't what he says he is, since he was rejected from every branch of the US military. Despite this, his uniform has several elements that show that he considers himself good enough to be among the airborne units. His boots are reminiscent of the paratrooper's jump-boots. His jacket has a high collar, which was a specific modification to their uniform. The screaming eagle motif is actually the insignia of the 101st Airborne Division.

Given how paratroopers were deployed into battle, there was a lot of interest in reducing bulk and weight of equipment. The M1A1 carbine with a folding stock was one of their weapons, and modification of kit along these lines was not uncommon.

While the Soldier has elements of paratrooper uniform already, there's practically nothing of it in his weapons. That's what I aim the Airborne Armaments pack to be - a set of weapons that reduce weight and bulk, since if the soldier considers himself paratrooper material, he's going to have gotten himself the weapons for it at some point.


The Jumper's Trumpet – a rocket launcher replacement

Click for high res version of the below image


TF2_Bazooka_Finished_by_Elbagast.png

I'll be honest, the excuse to do a rocket launcher that's based around the various Bazooka models is the main reason for this pack.

The name is a play on what paratroopers do (jump) though it could also imply rocket jumping, and is also a reference to the origin of the name "Bazooka", which was the name of a novelty instrument that the GI's decided it looked like.

The Reserve Shooter – a shotgun replacement
When your primary fails, deploy your reserve.

Click for high res version of the below image

TF2_Soldier_Shotgun_Finished_by_Elbagast.png

The name Reserve Shooter is a play on the term 'reserve parachute', since parachute is often shortened to 'chute, and reserve parachutes are often refered to as 'reserve's, along with the shotgun being a secondary/backup weapon. I could call it "the reserve chuter", but I doubt people would pronounce that properly without knowledge of the background.

Ditched name: The Whippet Gun

This name appears to originate from the so called 'whipit' gun, a sawn down automatic shotgun used by Bonnie Parker in the 1930's. The term since evolved to encompass a fully functional pump action/automatic shotgun that has been sawn down either to bring it within gun regulations or to reduce the size and weight, making it easier to conceal. Since law enforcement appropriated the idea for undercover work and the like, I'm going to assume that branches of the military would find a use for it – especially since the paratroopers' gear was modified to reduce bulk.


The Market Gardener – a shovel replacement
Entrenching Tool (E-tool)

Click for high res version of the below image

TF2_E_tool_Finished_by_Elbagast.png

The Soldier's shovel is an entrenching tool (type M1943), a short handled version of your regular garden implement adapted for trench digging and the like while being easy to carry. 'Entrenching tool' shortens to 'e-tool', a term which I've found evidence of use in WW2 and I've decided to develop one based on a variant that first showed up in 1951, the combination shovel-pick folding e-tool (M1951). This choice is mostly based on the distinct shape it has when folded in pick mode.

The name 'market gardener' is a reference to the weapon's appearance as some kind of deranged gardening implement, and to Operation Market Garden, one of the major operations the airborne units were deployed in in WW2.


Other equipment? - not going to happen
Since the Soldier's model seems to already incorporate one of the most recognisable things about the paratrooper's uniform – the jump boots – I don't really feel I have much to do other than the weapons. Since the model's version are simplified though, I might look into a pair of boots anyway if I find the time, since some of the accessories added to the game have added a level of detail quite a bit higher than the original character models.


Aesthetic Notes
To tie the weapons together visually I''ll be doing a colour scheme that ties them together. I'm hoping I'll be able to find a tone of olive drab (the name of the military green colour) that will complement TF2's existing palette. I'll put a swatch up here once I've figured out my all my colours.

Replies

  • Elbagast
    Concept Sketches

    Polycount_TF2_Contest_Concepts_by_Elbagast.png

    Rocket Launcher
    The two concepts here are based on real models, but are both a lot shorter than the real launchers. I could have also considered the M20 version but that doesn't differ in appearance to the M9 very much. Overall I prefer the M9 version, since the shoulder stock looks a lot more lightweight than that of the M1 - assuming a shoulder stock wouldn't have too many clipping errors to get away with.

    By the looks of things the overall tubular shape is going to be simple to make and differ greatly from the other launchers, and the detailing is going to be where the work is going to lie.

    Interestingly the name Bazooka comes from the name of a comedy instrument used by a popular radio comedian.

    Shotgun
    I made a quick hack job and tested in HLMV, and it works convincingly with all the animations, in both first and third person. Compared to the standard shotgun the length reduction is proportionally similar to the difference between real shotgun models.

    Again, it looks like the devil is going to be in the details.

    Shovel

    After a bit of research I found out that the Soldier's standard shovel is already the most compact design of entrenching tool of the time period. Damn. At the moment I think it's a toss up between an M1910 and the concept marked 'Hybrid Design', which includes elements of the M1943, M1910 and my original idea of a metal-handled tool.

    It seems these things are known as 'E-tools', which may be useful for coming up with a name.

    Next up:
    At this point I'm undecided whether I should work on all three alongside each other or concentrate on completing one at a time. I'll probably look into starting work on the launcher or shotgun first since they'll both need quite a bit of work.
  • Elbagast
    Compact Shotgun Development Part 1

    TF2_Soldier_Shotgun_WIP_01_by_Elbagast.png

    I decided to work on the shotgun first since I'd need to determine a grip design that looked appropriate but didn't introduce a load of clipping problems with the Soldier's hand. I tried a grip style like the one labeled 'pistol grip' in the above concepts, but it didn't feel right and intersected his pinky. You would see that intersect everytime you reload.

    I had a look around for period weapons with ergonomic grips and noticed that the front handle of a Tommy gun had a shape that looked like it would fit. A quick test and it had no issues, so I decided to develop it further, and it worked perfectly! :) I'll see if I can get some shots showing how it fits in the hand when I get to a point when I start doing colour test textures. That grip also accounts for half the triangles at the moment...

    At the moment the pump and the trigger area need the most work. I'd welcome any opnions about the shape of the pump, since I have a lot more freedom in that area compared to the handle and I'm a little unsure about what shape to go for. Ideally something that helps the gun look short, if that makes any sense.

    Next up:
    I'll probably give the shotgun a rest to come back to it with fresh eyes and start work on the rocket launcher in the meantime.
  • Djokson
    I really like the shotgun model and the concept art but it seems almost the same to the original weapons to me, this is just my opinion, of course.
  • Zipfinator
    Offline / Send Message
    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 8
    Looking good! The only thing I'd suggest is finding a way to make your submissions more unique like in that shotgun concept with the shells attached. Right now it looks like a slightly modified stock shotgun. Maybe the texturing would make it more unique but the size/proportions of everything make it very similar to the other one.

    Also if you want to go a bit more modern or for something more unique, here's a suggestion for the shovel.

    heavy-duty-trifold-shovel.gif

    It's more compact, has the fold at the tips and has the serrated edges for more damage if used as a melee weapon (That's actually the real purpose of it for the Military version).

    Keep it up! I'll be watching this thread, has some promise so far.
  • Elbagast
    Yeah that was precisly the reason I thought about at least one attachment for it, I'll be looking into the possibilities.

    I did come across the modern E-tool design in my research, though I dismissed it primarily because the handle wouldn't work with existing animations and the shovel head is unchanged from the last WW2 models. They also fold in 2 places rather than one (awkward), and it seems they were first introduced in 1963 (passable). I didn't realise they were serrated though, I may pinch that feature of them, thanks! :D
  • Elbagast
    Bazooka Rocket Launcher Development Part 1

    TF2_Bazooka_WIP_01_by_Elbagast.png

    Testing the shotgun was done with a hack-job model before I started work on the real thing, but I couldn't do that with the bazooka so this model will probably get turned into the real thing.

    A lot of the detailing is unfinished or omitted, since I'm more interested in clearing up potential animation faults before it becomes a lot more troublesome to do so. As you can see I've found a few. By the looks of things a shoulder stock would have to be quite different to those on real bazookas in order to not clip noticabley.

    Next up:
    Probably more work on the bazooka so it's a bit further along, at least until the clipping is all sorted like with the shotgun. As for right now, sleep time.
  • youngoli
    Two things. The rocket launcher concept looks really cool, but I think it should be a bit more stylized in regards to proportion. If you look at the soldier's current RL's they're very distinctive based on proportion. Second, if you can't find a better shovel to use, why not just choose a different tool that soldiers used in WW2?
  • yoplatz
    Or, you could go with something like this. There's already a shovel, and there's already a pick, but there's not a shovel-pick.
    intrenching_tool_m1951.jpg
  • MacD11
    ^ OMFG YES!
  • Ikimono
    Doesn't look very interesting of a pack that you're creating. Nothing looks different enough from the original models to be something that draws attention.

    Using real life weapons like "the bazooka" is a rather bland thing to do.
  • Elbagast
    youngoli wrote: »
    Two things. The rocket launcher concept looks really cool, but I think it should be a bit more stylized in regards to proportion. If you look at the soldier's current RL's they're very distinctive based on proportion.

    I get what you mean, but in order to retain the look of a bazooka I'm going to have to leave the main tube alone, since the simple tubular design is part of its own distinctive shape. This means that to keep it in line with the other designs I only have the positioning/proportions of the detailing to play with, which is restrictive, but I don't think it'll be too much of problem.
    youngoli wrote: »
    Second, if you can't find a better shovel to use, why not just choose a different tool that soldiers used in WW2?

    Browsing kits I haven't really seen much else to go for other than a combat knife, but I'll keep my eyes open.
    yoplatz wrote: »
    Or, you could go with something like this. There's already a shovel, and there's already a pick, but there's not a shovel-pick.
    <image>

    I came across that too, I believe it's the M1951 E-tool. It's definately distinct, but since they're apparently noticabley heavier than the M1943 (Soldier's shovel) type it may not fit the theme of going for lightweight variants, but I'll bear it in mind. I'll probably do a set of tool heads and handles when I get round to the first steps of the meele weapon to see what different combinations look like.
  • Rhinokey
    Offline / Send Message
    Rhinokey polycounter lvl 11
    lightweigh, maybe a riders crop like gen patton used to swing around patton1.jpg

    tho maybe theres already one for soldier. i'm not sure
  • Benvil
    As for the Shovel I think you should go with the US model or Hybrid model :)

    The "Bazooka" looks great, though :D
  • Elbagast
    Bazooka Rocket Launcher Development Part 2

    TF2_Bazooka_WIP_02_by_Elbagast.png

    Following up from the first model I looked into ways of solving the animation issues whilst also testing some more details. After finding some better reference material I'm probably going to redo the handles, but otherwise this is somewhat close to what it'll look like.

    Next up:
    Probably some spades, to get that moving as well.


    I'm pretty sure this post wasn't here when I last posted...
    Ikimono wrote: »
    Doesn't look very interesting of a pack that you're creating. Nothing looks different enough from the original models to be something that draws attention.

    Using real life weapons like "the bazooka" is a rather bland thing to do.
    Well if I saw this as bland and uninteresting then I wouldn't be doing it! :poly124:

    I really don't get the comment that real life weapons are bland, since almost every weapon Valve themselves have made have very firm roots in reality, it just isn't always obvious. The same holds true to the community weapons they've implemented so far as well.

    And who said I was actually going to call it "the bazooka"? Can't a man work with a placeholder name to refer to his stuff??
    Rhinokey wrote: »
    lightweigh, maybe a riders crop like gen patton used to swing around

    <image>

    tho maybe theres already one for soldier. i'm not sure
    Hmm...interesting. Officer equipment might also be worth looking into...
    Benvil wrote: »
    As for the Shovel I think you should go with the US model or Hybrid model :)

    The "Bazooka" looks great, though :D
    Thanks for the input. Given the relative complexity of the shovels I aim to not dismiss meele designs until I've seen at least a rough version in the flesh, so I'll probably put up a compilation pic of the designs when I get there.
  • Xeramon
    Wow, this bazooka ist great :) I hope I will see it in-game :D
  • Graff Pirate
    these are great!
  • Buck
    Neat progress :)
  • Emil Mujanovic
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    Emil Mujanovic polycounter lvl 11
    This is coming along really nice! Has a very solid TF2 feel.

    Keep it up!
  • re.wind
    That, sir is a *nice* orkish rocket launcher. ;)
  • Puffstoole
    Valve tends to make the new items have a distinct look from what already exists, so it can be easily identified on the battlefield (think axe and homewrecker, or shovel and equalizer). Your shotguns and shovels could be hard to tell apart from the vanilla version. Your rocket launcher looks great, however :D
  • devioussam
    really digging that bazooka dude.
  • Elbagast
    God damn why did I dismiss this tool...

    yoplatz, your suggestion rings true, it looks way more distinct than any shovel variant, and is different enough from the other weapons to work.

    E-tool Development Part 1


    TF2_E_tool_WIP_01_by_Elbagast.png

    It didn't really occur to me that the short handle these things have would make the combination e-tool look a lot different from the Equaliser until I'd gathered my reference models together. So I built this hack-job to test it.

    It might be heavier in real life but the in-game version sure doesn't feel like it, probably due to the overall length when it's folded like this. Now I just have to build one myself...

    Notes about the shotgun
    I see a few of you are worried about this thing not looking distinct enough with just the shortening of it. Your're probably right, but I've been looking into ways of dealing with that and have a few ideas. I already have a favourite but I'll give you guys a taste of these things before I go ahead and implement it. I've also come across a potential name for the gun, but I need to find another source to back up that finding.

    Next up:
    Build a proper E-tool model and look into head/handle shapes.
  • Elbagast
    I've updated the first post with some clarifications to my theme, since my research has turned up some things that influence it.

    E-tool Development Part 2


    TF2_E_tool_WIP_02_by_Elbagast.png

    I've gotten quite far with building the E-tool. It has some smoothing errors that need clearing up, some parts need optimistion, there are missing details like rivets, and the handle needs to be done properly. Also this looks like it's probably another shade of green to throw on the discard pile.

    I've tested this model in game, and it feels different enough from the others to work well. The little things like the rim and holes on the back end of the shovel part also seem to be quite important in first person, as they seem to draw the eye.

    I'd welcome any comments on the handle though, I'm not too sure about the T at the bottom now that I have a model with it in front of me. Something about it feels a little awkward (although arguabely the entire weapon is...).

    Next up:
    Some love for my now named shotgun.
  • Psyke
    the t looks a tiiiny bit plain

    maybe wrap a cloth or some rubber grip around it?
  • Snex
    all your ideas are simple and plain, nothing too exciting... but your models are amazing and fit quite well into tf2.. i'm looking forward to see your textures :P
  • Rogue Trooper
    For the pin-ups, have you looked at the team calendars in the spawn rooms?
  • Zwebbie
    I'd advise you to make some colour studies of your Bazooka before settling on the modeling. I tried to make a rocket launcher with just dark and darker greys myself (save for the handles) and quickly found that it didn't work; the contrast between the metal and the wood is pretty essential for the weapon's design. There's a chance you can get away with just metal, because you've got a pretty strong silhouette, but again, do a test to see if it actually is so.

    As for the melee weapon, it's not terribly creative and I think that's a weakness. Personally I was thinking of him swinging around a broken off propeller to fit with the air theme, but that might be too silly.
  • Galago
    Pretty nice stuff so far.
  • Elbagast
    Psyke wrote: »
    the t looks a tiiiny bit plain

    maybe wrap a cloth or some rubber grip around it?
    Thanks, I'll look into it.
    Snex wrote: »
    all your ideas are simple and plain, nothing too exciting... but your models are amazing and fit quite well into tf2.. i'm looking forward to see your textures :P
    That would be down to personal interpretation of what fits. I could be more outlandish - as a number of other entrants are doing - but I don't see that as being necessary.
    For the pin-ups, have you looked at the team calendars in the spawn rooms?

    Eh? Are you thinking of this entry? A pinup probably wouldn't fit my stuff since they seem to be more associated with bombers and the air force than the paratroopers themselves. I've not seen a glider with one on it.
    Zwebbie wrote: »
    I'd advise you to make some colour studies of your Bazooka before settling on the modeling. I tried to make a rocket launcher with just dark and darker greys myself (save for the handles) and quickly found that it didn't work; the contrast between the metal and the wood is pretty essential for the weapon's design. There's a chance you can get away with just metal, because you've got a pretty strong silhouette, but again, do a test to see if it actually is so.
    Well since I have to organise the details of both the bazooka and the shotgun, I was considering looking into the colour scheme for them at the same time so I could see how colour and silhouette variations interact. It'll proabably be the next thing I do.
    Zwebbie wrote: »
    As for the melee weapon, it's not terribly creative and I think that's a weakness. Personally I was thinking of him swinging around a broken off propeller to fit with the air theme, but that might be too silly.
    I don't think a bit of a plane would fit since the airborne units spent more time out of aircraft than in them, so I don't really see any strong links to draw inspiration from aircraft. You might be right in saying that it's an unimaginative weapon though, but there isn't all that much to play with without going too far from the other weapons, and I'm pretty happy that this feels different enough from existing ones. It was also fun to make, which is big plus in my eyes. :)
  • Rogue Trooper
    Damn it, wrong thread. Sorry about that.
  • Elbagast
    "Whippet Gun" Shotgun Development Part 2

    TF2_Soldier_Shotgun_WIP_02_by_Elbagast.png

    To change the shape of the shotgun significantly, while making sure it still looks and functions like a shotgun, I went for a folding stock that folds over the top. I thought about using a side-folding stock, but that would only give visual interest to the user or an observer, depending on which side it's on. A top folding one like this is visible to all and impacts the side-on shape of the gun.

    The most common example of a stock that folds like this looks rather plain and modern since it's made from pressed metal. It carried that look into the model when I tested it too. So I decided to make my own, styling it after the folding stock of the paratrooper's M1A1 carbine, and I rather like how it turned out.

    Colour wise, I decided to see what it would look like if I used the colour pallette of the only waepon in the game with green on it so far - the Direct Hit. It happens to be close to a promising shade I came across in my research.


    Next up:
    Probably bazooka stuff, I've been doing some basic silhouette and colour studies with it and it looks like Zwebbie was spot on about colour having a huge impact, even before you put the thing on a character model.
  • Psyke
    quite a harsh looking little thing isn't it?
  • ParingKnife
    Wow! That stock made all the difference in the world! I was afraid, like some others, that your ideas were just not interesting enough visually. But, the shotgun modification is quite redeeming. :) Keep up the good work.
  • Snowloss
    With all the default shotguns in the game, it's great to see people taking it on and making it unique!
  • Elbagast
    Psyke wrote: »
    quite a harsh looking little thing isn't it?
    It's got the look I'm after then! :)
    Wow! That stock made all the difference in the world! I was afraid, like some others, that your ideas were just not interesting enough visually. But, the shotgun modification is quite redeeming. :) Keep up the good work.
    Hey man this is why it's all work in progress!
    Snowloss wrote: »
    With all the default shotguns in the game, it's great to see people taking it on and making it unique!
    Exactly why I'm having a go at it. Since to test it in game it replaces the shotgun used by everybody so I've seen it in all the class' hands, and it only really fits the Soldier in regards to the changes in shape (and it really doesn't fit the heavy since it's a tiny baby shotgun).


    I've been thinking of some potential names for some of this kit and I'd appreciate any thoughts on the following:

    For the E-tool, the Market Gardener
    This comes from the thought of making a play on the fact that it looks like a deranged gardening implement (which is pretty much what e-tools are anyway) and a reference to Operation Market Garden, one of the paratrooper's major operations in WW2.

    For the Rocket Launcher
    It's proving pretty difficult to come up with something that fits this because the origin of the name Bazooka is pretty colourful in itself. GI's decided it looked like a novelty instrument played by Bob Burns and the name stuck. Since we know the Soldier has a pretty loose grip on reality the following line of thought could work:
    "This thing? I hear they named it after that novelty instrument, the Kazoo" - the Soldier
    The Panzerschrek also got a nickname based on what it looks like - Ofenrohr (stove pipe). Thing is there's already a stove pipe in the game since that's an english name for a top hat, so to go along the same lines it would have to be the Chimney or the Smokestack, or some other pipe-like thing.

    So, thoughts? More research needed?
  • Psyke
    intrestingly enough, soldier will frequently mention chimney's and smoke when dominatin' pyro

    so that's quite a good direction to go with
  • jgoodroad
    the shotty you have looks like it needs more detail, some scuffs, dents, and other marks...
  • Snowloss
    The shotgun could use a little work, but not every single weapon in TF2 needs to be broken, taped, splintered, burned, or broken.
    The cleanness of the shotgun still keeps it looking like a stock 'skin swap' replacement as opposed to a brand new weapon with stats.
  • jgoodroad
    isn't the point of this comp is to make a model that will be made into a NEW weapon?
    a "skin swap" is hardly something of a "new" weapon
    and this is the soilder we are talking about, why would his guns NOT be scuffed?
  • Snowloss
    The main goal of this contest is to remodel existing weapons, so in essence it sort of is a skinning contest.

    As for a little skuff for the Soldier, you're completely right. Was more a comment on what I've seen across most projects as a whole. So much tape...

    Maybe have a knife welded/ bonded to the right side of the shotgun for a bayonet?
  • jgoodroad
    I am sure it is to model new weapons, the only thing preventing completely new weapons is the default animations...and I know of several people who are animating their weapons.

    and duct tape is a Mann's best friend.
  • Elbagast
    It probably looks a little plain since there's no detailing on the pump and there are no bolts on the body - both of those will be in the texture, along with any paint/metal wear and tear.

    I'm not inclined to model dents into it because they would add more to an already high poly shotgun, and denting is actually very rare on the TF2 weapons. The only pronounced ones I've seen are on the baseball bat and the bugle, and neither are mechanical devices.
  • Elbagast
    Colour Testing

    After spending a load of time digging up shades of military green colours (olive drab) I did some tests of a couple against the TF2 colour pallette. You can see 9 of the tones on the top row of the below image. It turns out none of them complement both the Red and Blu schemes at the same time, and all of them favour red. In the meantime, the only green tone already in game and used on the Direct Hit, does complement both.

    TF2_Military_Green_Testing_by_Elbagast.png

    It turns out the Direct Hit's green has equal levels of red and blue, while all real colours have more red in them which produces the varying level of yellow/browning, and if blue is stronger than red, it doesn't look like military green. This means the base green I'll use is going to be similar to the Direct Hit green, and the rest of the rows of colours look at variations of that colour.

    Bazooka Rocket Launcher Development Part 3

    TF2_Bazooka_Silhouette_Tests_by_Elbagast.png

    I've been compiling a selection of silhouette varations and looking into how colour variations affect them. I'm leaning towards #8 a lot but the base wood tone may get tweaked. Having the tube wrapped with wood like that differentiates it a lot from the actual bazooka design, whilst at the same time it ties it to the designs of the other rocket launchers - both of which are good things.

    Next up:
    Probably modelling the above.
  • Djokson
    I really liked how it looked like with a lighter shade of green, oh well. Also, my vote would have to go for 8.
  • Batt
    I have to admit your development process is pretty amazing.

    To comment on the weapons, I'm not too sure on the front of the launcher. It feels somewhat plain on the top side and the angle of the cone feels too wide. Maybe just a small ironsight in front of the cone, about half the size of the one on the rocket launcher - even if it wouldn't be useable, it'd add to the silhouette and it could just be passed off as a small joke.

    As for the shotgun, I like it, but I can't get rid of the feeling that it's too much like the regular shotty. It's the part between the barrel and handle, how you didn't make any changes other than the texture. Everything else about it looks great but if you could work in some kind of change there other than a different colour you'd have something that looks definitely different from the original.

    And if it means anything, I much prefer the wooden area of the 8th rocket laucher :)
  • Khthon
  • Zai
    I'd go for 3, 7, or 8 out of those.
  • Hotdogbunker
    That shotgun looks amazing by the way! It really reminds me of the SPAS shotgun.
    spas12.jpg
    That gun is totally fully automatic so maybe you could work some sort of awesomeness from that idea!! I love this polypack and it I wish you the best of luck!!
  • jgoodroad
    SPAZ shotgun FTW
  • Elbagast
    Alright, some responses to the feedback you guys left, I'll be posting an update on my modelling progress so far in a little while.


    Djokson
    - The green might still change before the end, since the testing I've done so far was with a pallette and not the models themselves, so repeating the test would probably be worth it. I can do quick tests by throwing a colour mask on the below images too, so I'll definately be looking into it.

    Batt - You're right about the bazooka stuff, when I tested my second model in game the blast deflector looked waay too big so it's been scaled down a little. Also while there was a sight, it was in the wrong place, so it's been moved higher up, but it's bugging me enough that I need to figure out a better design for it.

    As for the shotgun, I see no real reason to change that section. I did test an alternate design but it didn't look right. In addition my research has indicated that Valve have already picked the best shape for that type of gun in the given time period. If it gets anything there the most will be a change to the shape of the ejection port, if even that. I'll be changing the trigger guard anyway.

    Hotdogbunker - The Spas 12 is too modern a gun to fit TF2, though it did have some influence to the overall shape. I probably won't suggest it be automatic, since I've been aiming to build a pump action. That might also intrude on the Scout's Scattergun.

    Djokson, Khthon, Zai
    - Calls for 2, 3, 7 and 8 eh, with pretty much even split between wire and wood wrapping... I've done a comparison so see what you think when I put it up.
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