UFC fighter
polycounter lvl 9
Latest:
Been a while since my last character, been trying to find a job as a junior somewhere but can't seem to manage one, so back to the folio. Going to try get this guy as close as I can to the equivalent of a model from the latest UFC game.
Anyway, here's what i got so far.. going to take it into Zbrush (never used it before, should be a learning curve) and see what I can put out.
Lowpoly
Highpoly
Been a while since my last character, been trying to find a job as a junior somewhere but can't seem to manage one, so back to the folio. Going to try get this guy as close as I can to the equivalent of a model from the latest UFC game.
Anyway, here's what i got so far.. going to take it into Zbrush (never used it before, should be a learning curve) and see what I can put out.
Lowpoly
Highpoly
Replies
What I'd recommend are ankle wraps, like these (from a quick google search)
Good work anyhow
First, the shorts look a bit like boxing shorts, and not MMA-style shorts (which are more similar to board shorts eg for surfing/swiming shorts if you know what I mean). What I'm trying to say is, the waist band on your shorts is a bit too thick to be like the ones used in MMA.
Second, like Shaden said, since the unified rules took effect (1), shoes of any kind were dissallowed from the ring. If I remember correctly, the only shoes allowed before that were wrestling shoes, which still are quite different (and shorter) than boxing shoes, which your character seems to be wearing.
Third I see you gave him the Forrest Griffin bodytype in the torso, which isn't bad - but his forearms after the elbow, before the glove are too bendy. Try to straighten them out with the move brush.
Some last things:
- The gloves reach too high up the forearm after the wrist joint, that should be easily fixed though.
- Smoothen his skin pores on the face and ridges (the lines on the skin of the face thingies, forget their name) his skin looks a bit like Helio Gracie's (2) right now.
- A more general (and important) crit; I was guilty of this myself until recently, after enough abuse on these here forums I started working the "proper" way. You don't need to put so much detail in the low poly if you're taking it to ZBrush.
Instead of helping you with the high poly, it actually hinders you because you already have some shapes defined and you can't easily change them if you find out you need to. So, instead of just using zbrush to add the fine details, why not create a simple basemesh in max/maya and do everything else from Zbrush.
To better understand this, check this thread out: http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?t=56973 It's the wip thread of the guy who made the DWIII winning model last year, and he shares a lot of his technique. Very good read, go through the whole thread.
And one really last thing, the models in UFC Undisputed kinda suck, they're 3d scanned and they look pretty lifeless and out-of-likeness to me for some reason.
1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_martial_arts_rules#Unified_Rules
2 http://www.yorkblog.com/mma/helio_gracie.jpg
luke_starkie - cheers
conte - I'd be suprised if you did since he isn't really based off anyone in particular, a few things, i took a couple details from Randy Couture but that's about it, (ears etc)
ericdigital - It isn't supposed to be stylised, i probably should have said that the high poly was a WIP, this was a post to get some critique and improve on the things mentioned. I only had about 1hr to toy around with the legs so they're still definitely not done and i'll go back and relook at the arms.
t4paN - I'll go back and re-shape the forearms a bit and straighten those out. I'll fix the gloves up and drop some of the harshness out of the face. Definitely going to take a look at that thread as i'll try take a look at different techniques to develop what works best for me.
Didn't even notice that! Mad props for putting that in! :thumbup:
DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a self-proclaimed forum authority on MMA :poly136:, but here's some advice if you're attempting to make him instantly noticable for people who follow MMA -
- Fighters wear mouth guards during fights - as your guys looks like he's ready for a match, one would expect his mouth and surrounding areas bulge out a bit due to the mouthpiece.
- A lot of MMA'ers train in a style called Brazilian Jujitsu (BJJ) - and they may enter the ring wearing a kimono top (think thick karate uniform top, usually white or blue) and a color belt denoting their rank (many think black, but many established MMA fighters are brown belts [that's one below black] too).
OR; BJJ'ers, or MMA grapplers, wear "rash guards" - think form-fitting rubber shirt - during practice. Both tops are usually covered in loud logos, so you might be able to use that for more color.
Here's some links to online shops for reference (and if you're in the mood to shop, I suppose - I'm not affiliated with them, btw :poly136: )
BJJ: http://www.jiujitsuprogear.com/
I can't give you lots of technical advice [really, any advice at this moment as I'm new to all this], but I can ramble on a bit more about this kind of stuff if you're curious . . ..
When ever I think of good UFC characters I always go back to this one:
Checkout how he didn't go overboard with the muscles and how realistic the results are.
To my knowledge you can wear any kind of shorts you want, though, as long as you dont have pockets or belt loops or any of that jazz.
Also, use this for reference: http://www.mmaphotography.com/
It's worth picking a weightclass for your fighter, too. a 220 pouinder is going to have very different proportions than someone hanging at around 150.
Also MMA fighters wear mostly sprawl or TapOut board shorts which are more iconic. Others wear Muay Thai shorts (Brandon Vera comes to my mind) but that's just not as characteristic of an MMA fighter or even the speedo things like Georges St. Pierre - which just look gay so I'm happy he didn't model those.
The pic Brad posted is the eh... ultimate Ultimate Fighter in terms of appearance. TapOut board shorts, ankle wraps and a great bodytype (plus a wrong-side-mirrored ufc glove but that's excusable -_-).
This Samar Vijay guy should be doing all the characters of the next UFC game instead of that lifeless 3d scanner by the way.
That saidm, I agree with the weightclass, Raider's guy looks like he could make 205 if he shed some muscle :P
Quick areas to point out are:
- Abdominals are way too high
- The deltoid lays on top of the pec major, you have a harsh cut off transition that feels like shoulder pads
- His knees are up way too high
- The elbow really lacks definition
- The whole neck area is starting out in the right direction, but there's a lot of errors here
- The back needs a lot of attention as well as the structure of the arms
I would also say that your base mesh you modeled out is far too detailed in areas with too many defined edge loops in areas that you don't need them. The area above the knee, the back side of the arm, etc. I say you go back to your base mesh and start over. That's just my opinion, but if you rework your model and sculpt, study up on solid anatomy, you'll achieve a far better result in the end. I know learning ZB can be a little tricky, but a really good ref that I highly recommend is Zack Petroc's Human Anatomy Gnomon Videos (DVD or downloadable). This one, and this thread on ZBCentral. You gotta pay some coin to get the videos, but believe me, they will help you so much, you will be glad you did.Basically, I think that its mainly lack of experience is why your having issues, and you just need to really keep practicing. Keep looking at your references and try to brute force your way to getting him looking right. You will certainly learn a lot doing so. The human anatomy is one of the hardest things one can sculpt, if not THE hardest, and it takes time to get good. It wont happen overnight, so just keep working on it man.
Try Not to think, cut here budge there. Try To think surface topology like this and surface topology like that. Once you really start dissecting it like that, youll realize a lot of things you hadnt before. Good luck man, and keep at it! Its definitely improved since your last update.
[EDIT]
I thought I would mention Im not the biggest fan of that dvd firebert pointed you to for sculpting anatomy (zbrush gnomon tutorial). I prefer this one: http://www.kurvstudios.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MB-T001-0002&Category_Code=01-02-10
Its mudbox, but the same ideas apply. The reason I dont like the zbrush one Firebert mentioned is because the author goes on like hes trying to motivate you to start sculpting well, instead of actually telling you specifically why hes sculpting particular muscles the way he is.
With Wayne, he actually gives you some anatomy lessons, and talks about why he sculpts things certain ways. Its far more informative in my opinion. Just thought I would give my opinion before you possibly shell out some cash.
right now you went crazy on the head with mico details before fixing important things
the ear for example, needs a TON of work
a general rule of thumb I like to do with eyes is to have some sort of sphere in there within zbrush angled in a slight degree with a sculped out pupil area (slightly angeled because a STRAIGHT forward eye looking at you is always really weird and unaccurate) then I like to sculpt the eye iris and eyelids based around that, I also like to work with non holes there but just a flat mesh for I can sculpt in the eye chamber based on the sphere
Think of this in terms of clay have something there and take away from it.
This is looking like a good start, it seems you need to practice many anatomy forms but this looks like a great start to understanding things!
dont be afraid to start over (Seriously I know its hard but sometimes its the best choice!)
I hope this helps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauliflower_ear
I have to totally disagree with the ears staying the way they are now. With a project like this most likely ending up in your portfolio, your objective should be displaying your understanding of human anatomy, not quirky mishap particulars associated with fighting. Leave that stuff for an actual game that is specific to certain characters, not stuff in your portfolio.
For your anatomy, get you some solid references to go by man. Try going down a few sub d levels and block out your forms. Each time you sub divide, keep blocking in the forms. Doing that should help you get a nice flow with your muscle groups. Also, his clavicle is pretty defined when it could be a little more subtle. His sternomastoid could also be more subtle. The way the neck attaches to the body looks kinda awkward right now...is his head a separate mesh? There appears to be some unwelded verts in a couple of areas...might be some funky zbrush eye trickery though
Also I'm leaning towards the cauliflower ear simply because it's so commonly seen in the UFC and it helps add a bit of dimensionality to the character. It mightn't make it as severe as say Randy's though
I've actually have access to the 3d.sk site so i've been using some muscle ref from there blocking in on the main forms. Most likely gonna go light-middle weight.
Anyone else got any prefs on a sculpting vid, had 2 mention so far the mudbox and zbrush one. Still having a look around but would appreciate some views on what people have liked..
Anyway starting fresh so i'll probably update once i've got the main muscle groups blocked in and refined a little to see what people think.
To me it's a better start then my other model, but that's my opinion which is why i'm posting to get yours. I'm going to keep him younger in this 1, i went for to much of a veteran MMA fighter and so far i think the face represents my aim. Anyway, gonna go see transformers 2 so i'll come back and check this later
edit: gloves haven't been touched, just a couple sub-d levels.
My monthly quota just rolled over so i'm actually able to download again and i'll probably grab that dvd aswell
He still isnt really quite right in the bigger forms, though. The ribcage seems like it should be more a bit convext on the chest area, the arms are too wide but to have this little thickness, the thighs/quads are absolutely embarrassing for anybody who's ever thrown a kick. Go down a subd level or two and get in there with the move tool and some anatomy reference:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1432
Got a few anatomy books the other day, some of the stuff in them is crazy, I've known but never really seen how complex our bodies are.
Anyway, here's a WIP of the new model, the face is still pretty wip.. only spent an hour or two on it. Rest still has a fair bit to go but I wana know if i'm on track this time, it seems more correct and matches up with all the books i've got
/edit one small thing about the head: Move his jaw a bit closer to the neck and make the back of his head a bit smaller, ie move it towards the ears. Also moving the mouth upwards a wee bit would help make his jaw look bigger, and we all know badass fighters have neatherdal jaws :P
i'll definitely straighten that jaw when i go back to it.. it's actually hella fun starting from a box sculpt because you can make the face however you want
You make a good point, but you could also think about it like it's important to show your skills in researching the subject matter.
I think the best approach is to make a decision from a design stand point and list why or why he shouldn't a certain ear type... eg. you choose to make him have a cauliflower ear because your character in reality is an experienced fighter who has developed the deformation over his years of fighting.
I also love the latest update, it's looking great man
But as I said it's looking great man, keep going! can't wait to see the end result
Any criq much appreciated, i'll look at them in the morning.. really wana get the sculpt locked down so i can do some surface detail then make a base and get onto texturing.
Id bulge up the knees and the calve muscles;
Lengthen the thigh;
The back of the trapezius (tIV occipital protudance area) needs abit more work;
The insertion of the sternoclaidomastoid is abit off, it actually inserts into the sternum;
Dont be afraid to smooth out an area which you dont feel is working and give it a second try (like the eyelid area);
Maybe smooth out the deltoid region abit? ;
Check reference for the back of the delt and the triceps and the arms
Post a shot with orthographic mode off (hit p)
Good luck, this shows alot of promise!
new update:... more pronounced knees, buffed calves, tweaked trap, fixed neck, smoothed out shoulder area a little. Also some screengrabs of ortho off for this one.
Now i'm stuck, I've never normal mapped i got nfi.. i've seen things about projection modified.. but my cage gets to big and verts start clashing when i pull the cage out enough to try capture the detail.
So basically what i'm after is a method where i can get the high poly onto my low poly base.. cause atm i got nfi
Anyway, completed sculpt with low poly.
I can't give the low poly UVs to my high poly UV's because zbrush whinges about different mesh sizes, so exporting the highpoly uvs doesn't match or even have an organised map. < The sub-d levels don't match.. so this is where i'm stuck
Even though i'm past it i mose well ask, is there a way of turning OFF transparency when working with retop, I hate the fact that i can see verts on the other side of the finger etc, half the time i'll bloody click that and send edges going through mesh.. it really shits me off to no end and was 1 of the main problems i had... probably something obvious... or something obvious which was over looked, cheers.
See example
Imagine how small his hands are if he took the gloves off..and there is tape underneath the gloves as well. Over all the arms are just way to short- makes him look like a midget.The traps look pinched...they should have a rounded feel to them. TOrso doesnt look bad.
(I know there's an arm seam i'm working on it
I think it's time to fix this guys crazy eys. His eyes are open way too wide for a natural state.
Vig taught me this a while back. The pupil (black area) should be at the edge of the upper eyelid or slightly covered. The Iris (or colored area) should only show about lower 3 quaters. The bottom of the Iris is at the edge of the lower eyelid.
If you do this, I think it will make his expression look a lot better.
Your almost there, great job so far!
Marmoset ftw aswell, holy crap @ the difference it makes.
I think you should still do a few mesh tweaks to make this look more natural.
-Squeeze toes together more and possibly rotate inwards
-Close the eyes some more
-See if you can make him frown a bit less (its an overly angry look atm, imo)
Texture wiseI think the normals on the tape around his ankles is looking flat. Make the normals more intense there, Possibly add a little more AO to the diffuse, and some edging for the specular highlights.
You could also put some more love into the specular in general. It appears to have pretty much the same specular intensity all around currently (except maybe the gloves, hard to tell). Lastly, you might consider giving him some body hair, Armpits?
Anyways, nice work, and this should be a great piece for your portfolio.
Edit:
Here: this image isn't too bad:
I suppose the knee caps could go a bit higher, but really its very minor and you already have your normals baked and so fourth.
Tweaked hands, eyes, forehead, toes, bit of bulking on the traps.