Warhammer Online Not Crediting All Developers
polycounter lvl 17
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54263
This probably happens all the time in the industry, but it's still pretty shitty. Adding a name to a list requires no effort at all, so this should feel like a pretty bad punch in the chest for anyone that spent a lot of his time and creativity in this
. Anyone here at polycount affected by it? I know theres a lot of employees and ex-employees from mythic here.
This probably happens all the time in the industry, but it's still pretty shitty. Adding a name to a list requires no effort at all, so this should feel like a pretty bad punch in the chest for anyone that spent a lot of his time and creativity in this
. Anyone here at polycount affected by it? I know theres a lot of employees and ex-employees from mythic here.
Replies
EFF YOU GUYS!
I can only think of a couple people who've recently left that would really be angered by this.
I assume this also means I don't get my free copy :P.
I don't see why the person in the article wants to take legal action. Seems silly. But that's just me.
Proper etiquette in my opinion is special thanks for leavers. And of course if you spend more than a year or two on a project ...credit yourself by putting it in your portfolio.
Yeah, credits are dumb and should be removed even, from games, movies, books... who cares really.
well, the point isn't who's gonna look at it. if they actually took their time to make a credits section they should list anyone who should get credited for it, no?
when i was there, there was a dude who worked on a release up until the last week or so of production and he got nixed from the credits.
is this fair?
who cares, mythic pays the bills and they write the credits.
speaking as a seasoned title shipper, if you are not on a project for the last phase of development its almost safe to say you didn't truly "work" on it. but at the same time i have done contract and been in the credits for just a character or 2, but i don't think i would of really gave a shit if i wasn't. i think its up to the developer, in this case,mythic.
credits are ace
I really hope this is sarcasm. I for one care and i for one do actually hit the credits button to see who has worked on a game. I think if contributed a significant amount of time and effort to a project you should be credited. I dont see how not being there until the end of the product should invalidate any work you have contributed. Its its a significant contribution you should have some form of recognition even if its in the "Special thanks area" I dont think it should be a basis for a lawsuit mind you but i can see how people can be irritated by this.
Some of you guys may shrug it off and say who cares but that isnt the case for everyone. If youve made a significant contribution to a game that alot of hours of your life you have devoted to this product and i dont think fair to diminish that.
Yeah I am certain it was sarcastic.
I wasn't suggesting removing credits altogether or saying that they aren't important to some, I was just saying they aren't important to me really. I have been working on this game since the very very beginning and if I were to leave the company now and they told me I would removed from the credits it honestly wouldn't bother me a whole shitload. I have the insane amount of work I did in my portfolio and would still list the company and experience on my resume. It's not like employers are going to rifle through credits to make sure you worked on a game you have listed in your resume. :P
Yeah, I can see how some would be ticked off ..... just sayin'.
qft
i agree, that it is the honorable thing to do, but if they shell out the cash to employ you while you are there you have been compensated, to think a developer then continues to owe you even after you are no longer working there is a bit much. i see both sides to this, but really its like demanding royalties on a game after its done and you have left.
technically you did work on the game, and you should be entitled to a share of the profits, but you will be hard pressed to find a studio that gives royalties to people that have left before the project is finished. There are still a few that are cool enough to give you royalties after you leave for the games you shipped, but i don't know of any handing them out for titles you didn't see the release date for. i see the credits as something residual like royalties and i also think its up the developer to make those decisions.
I don't see an issue with listing everyone in an electronic presentation of credits, but listing 100+ people in associated booklets could be annoying-ish.
you shut your mouth!
seriously, not big a deal..
At least I got my name in there, and since the credits were set up like the ending for a Star Wars film I was doubly satisfied.
Sucks to hear that this practice is pretty much law at EA, Daz. IMO, when a company makes an active effort to exclude people from credits based on when they leave, rather than considering their total contribution to a title, it reflects pretty poorly on company's business attitude.
If they actually do use this tactic to delay people leaving, they should have a read of this, rather than repackaging basic professional respect as a privilege to be earned. Not to mention making themselves look bad in the process.
I'll get off my soapbox now, just my $0.02.
Credits matter.
The truth is, my website and resume give me the credit anyway. I couldn't care less if an immature business owner thinks they're "getting back" at me for leaving the team during development by removing my name from the credits. You know what you worked on, hopefully you have copies of it and put it on your website to prove it. That's all that matters.
It is pretty trivial, but its just a sting when you know you put in a shit tonne of work, extra over time and really made a contribution to the team and then they say "Thanks... What did you do again?".
-caseyjones
The truth of the matter is that the real reason people want a credit is ego. Comments in here suggesting that not receiving a game credit on the actual shipped game being in some way detrimental to ones career is the biggest load of bollocks I've ever heard. Stick it on your resume, end of story. Companies do not dig fucking game discs out to check credits. They have other means at their disposal to find out If you really worked on something and quite frankly have better things to do than go installing games and searching through hard to find menus for your name!
Just to make myself clear here, I do not think that ethically it's the right thing to do on their part no. I think it's pretty fucking childish and lame. But it is what is, and they and many other companies have been doing it for years. Which is why I'm so surprised that this is even news.
Doug Nishimura is our lead environment artist and he's totally awesome. Apparently we 'stole' him from EA. The ship in upcoming title 'DeadSpace' used to be called the Nishimura. Check media and you'll note that it's now called the 'Ishimura'. hahahaha, pathetic.
Yeah i have seen that done a few times, sometimes its for legal reasons.
Quoting from that article: I think the IGDA is being a bit silly there. If you have a 2-year project for an AAA game, and you hire some guy who works for 30 days on it then decides to leave, or gets fired, or moves project ... I don't think that deserves credit... except maybe in "Special thanks".
Usually in 30 days from joining a project you can barely have time to get up to speed with the tools and workflow, then maybe finish one or two assets, and those will usually end up getting touched by other developers later, sometimes cut completely. Crediting absolutely everyone who modelled a crate or wrote a couple hundred lines of code is just silly, they barely contributed to the project at all.
people expect that this is owed to them because for umpteens of years we have seen credits in games.. and have always assumed that everyone was given credit. no telling how many people were left off the pong credits.
Apparently, to some people, they are.
I wouldn't say no to it, an instruction manual would be handy too.
It's funny to me that you'd compare games to toilet paper, Rhino. Although I'd probably have toilet paper on my mind too if I were talking out of my ass like that.
yea i worked years in a sawmill with no credit, and in the end i come to work everyday and i make the things that people tell me to make. i don't see where artists think they are so freaking special.
an artist designs the cereal boxes you see every morning, but i see no list of credits
an artist designed my car, but looking in the manual i see no credit.
an artist the toys on my desk, most of them are not signed, and the box lists no credit for the actual sculpter.
its a big deal because people have seen game credits and always assumed everyone gets in.
besides the fact that i love my job now, it in the end is not much diff than when i worked in sawmill. i come in, i do what i'm paid to do.
If under Environment Team, there are 3 names but actually 200 people have come and gone that's pretty ass that 3 people get to take credit for all of the work. If you mix this with another of the industries favorite trends, "lay off everyone except a skeleton crew after going gold" I'd be shocked if this doesn't happen more often.
Its understandable when a few people slip through the cracks. Its total ass when there are policies in place that exclude people, I guess it would be better if you knew that going in.
I do think its time that the industry start paying attention to credits like the film industry does, but really if someone moved on to another job I guess they really didn't need the credit in the first place? I still think great art and dedication will speak louder then game credits or degrees. But whatever gets you past the HR filter...
If you prefer to let others take credit for your work and ideas, that is fine of course.
I dont you would have enjoyed yuor sawmill experience if they had a credit list on the wall and yuo were one of the few not on it even tho you worked your butt off as much or more than others there.
Clearly, credits are never complete, most places will happily exclude people from credits if they don't particularly like them and are not present at the time of release. Others fall through the cracks as Vig said.
Maturity issues aside, for something to have any worth or value it should be done right, or not at all... if you're gonna give credit, give credit where credit is due.
Not feeling bad about it is one thing, but why are you still arguing? You'd prefer it, as you said, and we'd prefer it... as we've said. That's agreement, where I come from.