JordanN's PS1 Art Thread: When 500 triangles was high res.

2

Replies

  • odd_enough
    Offline / Send Message
    odd_enough polycounter lvl 6
    Holy crap, man. Freaking pick something and see it through for once. Don't say you're starting something and then randomly move on to "greener pastures". I know a lot of artists have a problem with that in general, but this is ridiculous. 

    Less text, more art!
  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    Holy crap, man. Freaking pick something and see it through for once. Don't say you're starting something and then randomly move on to "greener pastures". I know a lot of artists have a problem with that in general, but this is ridiculous. 

    Less text, more art!
    I think one of the Joker's quote from TDK sums up how I feel

    "You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it."


    The last few times I did this though, I wasn't sure what platform I should target. But now the choice is just PS1 for game art.
  • Joopson
    Offline / Send Message
    Joopson Polycount Sponsor
    JordanN said:
    I get some satisfaction knowing a work is still in progress than having to come to terms that I can't do more with it. Like, even with this thread, I don't want to say I'm done making PS1 art, but I'd like to know how can I make this stuff better each time I come back. The idea of a learning curve that goes on forever kinda appeals to me.
    Here's the thing; the learning curve of almost anything does go on forever. You don't have to artificially extend it by not completing things. That strikes me as a cop-out. And you'll come out of it with nothing to show.

    Leaving work behind is an integral part of the journey. Nothing will ever be finished in such a way that you're happy with it, but it can be finished in a way where you know it's time to move on.

    Without this, while it may feel like constant movement, doing these grand projects, you're actually in a form of stasis. You're using the scope of your projects as an excuse to not do the work that will help you improve.

    By working on something with a long time span, you're trying to give off the feeling of: "It's a long project, so my progress may not be obvious", when really, behind that mask of scope, nothing really needs to get done to maintain the image, and maybe nothing is getting done. I used to be this way myself. The illusion of getting stuff done, instead of just getting stuff done.

    With these big projects, you're definitely not getting as much done as if you had short projects where the progress is obvious, and people can critique it as you go, and you can move on faster, and better, than you went into it. If you hope to improve right now, you need fast projects, not grand ones. As it is now, you finish something, we give you critiques, and you say "Next project I'll make sure to address those critiques", but because projects differ, you're never actually held accountable to address those critiques, and you miss out on the lessons you'd learn.

    Of course, that's assuming you want to improve and get a job in the industry. But you've never really given us a straight answer about that.
  • odd_enough
    Offline / Send Message
    odd_enough polycounter lvl 6
    JordanN said:
    The last few times I did this though, I wasn't sure what platform I should target. But now the choice is just PS1 for game art.

    That's alright. You do your own thing. But for your next or current project, at least try very hard to see it through. I won't lie, I have a bajillion WIPs on my computer. But sooner or later, you need to pick one and just plain finish it. Even if you start to lose interest, listen to Shia Labeouf and just DO IT. 

    I refer you to this graph, as it's probably relevant to you: http://polycount.com/discussion/88366/how-to-win/p1 
  • Revolutionart
    Offline / Send Message
    Revolutionart polycounter lvl 5
    Or face the truth and throw the project away. Like i did.

    Anyways the only thing that bothers me is calling it PS1 ART as it clearly was a hardware limitation, call it LowPolyPixel Art pls!
  • tristamus
    Offline / Send Message
    tristamus polycounter lvl 9
    Many of you guys (not all) are acting like enormous assholes in this thread.

    If the guy wants to post shit that makes it more fun for him, let him. What is the problem with that?

    He said he posts teasers between the production process because it's fun for him. GOD FORBID HE HAS FUN HERE!

    Let him grow at his own pace. I've read the whole thread. Some of you come off like fathers / mothers who are never satisfied with their child. Get over yourselves!


  • polypassion
    Online / Send Message
    polypassion polycounter lvl 2
    @tristamus, pretty sure being enormous assholes is what makes this fun for the guys you're talking about. So everybody has fun in this thread. There's nothing wrong with teasers. It's just... he's teasing for a let down. And that's not fun at all.
  • SteveHarlow
    Offline / Send Message
    SteveHarlow keyframe
    tristamus said:
    Many of you guys (not all) are acting like enormous assholes in this thread.

    If the guy wants to post shit that makes it more fun for him, let him. What is the problem with that?

    He said he posts teasers between the production process because it's fun for him. GOD FORBID HE HAS FUN HERE!

    Let him grow at his own pace. I've read the whole thread. Some of you come off like fathers / mothers who are never satisfied with their child. Get over yourselves!


    Eh, at least 70% of the posts here are genuinely given, earnest pieces of advice with the best of intent that then just bounce right off the guy. I'm willing to say it's some well deserved snark.
  • axedbits
    There's a game released in 2016 that also tried to mimic the playstation 1 'art style' called "Back to 1995"


  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    ^^^^^
    I definitely saw that game when it was first announced. I remember back then, I was in the camp of people who heavily opposed games trying to go in that direction.

    Luckily now in 2017, I broke out of that habit. I look at it now and I'm not offended. It actually gives me more reason to still make more PS1 art. 

    Edit: I also just realized the floor texture reminds me of something. In uv unwrapping, when you map polygons in a way that's not completely planar, you end up with a bit of distortion. This effect looks the same way how the PS1 couldn't process its texture maps in a way that matches the camera's perspective. 

    It's that bit of imperfection I like so cudos on the developer for using it.

  • Ootrick
    Offline / Send Message
    Ootrick polycounter lvl 4
    JordanN don't listen to these fools.
    PS1 is where it's at!
    I even did a fan art of your fan art.


    I think you're onto something here. We should get together and make a game. We can probably crank out the art in a day or 2.
    What do you think?
    Breakdown plz. 
  • stickadtroja
    Offline / Send Message
    stickadtroja polycounter lvl 6
    i dont know how this got to the newsfeed but its super annoying please contain all flame shit in this thread
  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    I had no idea posts gets featured. I thought it was handpicked or something (note, I get to Polycount by the forums tab. So I never checked out the news). 

    What's interesting is just look how different that image is next to everything else. It took a thread like this to get something very obscure and contextless put out in the open. That's the kinda philosophy and motivation I'm after when making art. 


  • BrewNight
    Offline / Send Message
    BrewNight polycounter lvl 5
    That's not your art.
  • danr
    Offline / Send Message
    danr polycounter lvl 13
    lol 
  • Pedro Amorim
    LOL
  • Pedro Amorim
    Never change JordanN, never change.
  • Kosai106
    Offline / Send Message
    Kosai106 polycounter lvl 7
    JordanN said:
    Luckily now in 2017, I broke out of that habit. I look at it now and I'm not offended. It actually gives me more reason to still make more PS1 art. 
    I'm cencerely interested in why you say "Luckily" to that...
    It's one thing to make lowpoly art but it's something else when you're just making bad art for the sake of it. You're using this whole PSX thing as an excuse.
  • TeriyakiStyle
    Offline / Send Message
    TeriyakiStyle insane polycounter
    If you were to assign an artist to make an asset - what would the limitations be?  I haven't been able to find too many conclusions or any real information in what your doing.  I'm not sure your PS1 art would even make it into games of the era.

    Why not do tech breakdowns and make assets for actual games of the day?
    I'd like to see a breakdown and some attempts at Vagrant Story art for example:

  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    Kosai106 said:
    JordanN said:
    Luckily now in 2017, I broke out of that habit. I look at it now and I'm not offended. It actually gives me more reason to still make more PS1 art. 
    I'm cencerely interested in why you say "Luckily" to that...
    It's one thing to make lowpoly art but it's something else when you're just making bad art for the sake of it. You're using this whole PSX thing as an excuse.
    It relates to on old worldview I had on game graphics. I didn't quite understand why PS1 specs would be desired.

    But when I started to do things that wasn't mainstream, it kinda hit me that I shouldn't have to worry about specs all the time. Like when I wanted to copy the Iron Giant's style, I wouldn't have needed UE4/PS4 graphics for that. I could have made it using any technology, just like how all those Disney games on PS1 or PS2 or Gameboy didn't stop being Disney.


    But even then, I was just happy that I could finally do something that doesn't have to match what everything mainstream is doing. The specs became less important when all I wanted was to pump out art that wasn't restricted to a certain artstyle or thinking.
  • Kosai106
    Offline / Send Message
    Kosai106 polycounter lvl 7
    JordanN said:
    The specs became less important when all I wanted was to pump out art that wasn't restricted to a certain artstyle or thinking. 
    Uhm... But all you care about seems to be the specs or so called imperfections. Your logic makes no sense...
  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    Kosai106 said:
    JordanN said:
    The specs became less important when all I wanted was to pump out art that wasn't restricted to a certain artstyle or thinking.

    Uhm... But all you care about seems to be the specs or so called imperfections. Your logic makes no sense...
    When I make this, I'm not jotting down every triangle count or examining every texture to see if its pixellated enough. That's the kind of thinking I wanted to rid myself in 2017.

    Some level of specs is always needed but I don't think much about it and just concentrate on the assets. Even sometimes I may undershoot what a typical PS1 scene does, but I just focus on getting it to look how it's in my head.

    If you were to assign an artist to make an asset - what would the limitations be?  I haven't been able to find too many conclusions or any real information in what your doing.  I'm not sure your PS1 art would even make it into games of the era.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_technical_specifications

    I also play some games and look at what they did. But honestly, I don't really want to worry about it too much. I don't think anyone is going to confuse this for PS4/Xbox One. 
  • Joopson
    Offline / Send Message
    Joopson Polycount Sponsor
    So, to clarify (correct me if I'm wrong):

    1. You're doing art for fun, not to get a job or improve.

    2. You don't want feedback about your work.
  • Asura
    Offline / Send Message
    Asura polycounter lvl 3
    JordanN said:
    Kosai106 said:
    JordanN said:
    Luckily now in 2017, I broke out of that habit. I look at it now and I'm not offended. It actually gives me more reason to still make more PS1 art. 
    I'm cencerely interested in why you say "Luckily" to that...
    It's one thing to make lowpoly art but it's something else when you're just making bad art for the sake of it. You're using this whole PSX thing as an excuse.
    It relates to on old worldview I had on game graphics. I didn't quite understand why PS1 specs would be desired.

    But when I started to do things that wasn't mainstream, it kinda hit me that I shouldn't have to worry about specs all the time. Like when I wanted to copy the Iron Giant's style, I wouldn't have needed UE4/PS4 graphics for that. I could have made it using any echnology, just like how all those Disney games on PS1 or PS2 or Gameboy didn't stop being Disney.


    But even then, I was just happy that I could finally do something that doesn't have to match what everything mainstream is doing. The specs became less important when all I wanted was to pump out art that wasn't restricted to a certain art style or thinking.

    So from what I've gathered from this thread you are making PS1 art to stand out, not to improve or do something that you actually like. Not here to bust your balls but from what I've seen in this thread the point everyone is making is that you just need to make what you do look good and do it because you are trying to learn. That goes doubly so if you are not in the industry making a living. 

    Just my opinion but if you do not have an industry job and want one, it's a waste of time to make shit that you don't learn/ grow from. 

  • RustySpannerz
    Offline / Send Message
    RustySpannerz polycounter lvl 7
    To be fair, you do you. Make the art you want to make. I'm sure Picasso's peers thought he was strange too. 
  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    I'm scared to give an answer because if I say something today, but something tomorrow happens, there's no way I can walk back on a sentence.

    I don't think of this thread as trying to "dodge" the industry, but I see it as a place where I do think about games and  get a feel for certain ideas.
  • Odow
    Offline / Send Message
    Odow polycounter lvl 3
    I'm just really sad that you drop the Stylized Physically Based Cartoon Rendering.
  • TeriyakiStyle
    Offline / Send Message
    TeriyakiStyle insane polycounter
    Man I was trying to throw you a bone and engage you in a discussion about what you're evangelizing but you don't even seem to respect PS1 art if it isn't yours.
  • danr
    Offline / Send Message
    danr polycounter lvl 13

    JordanN said:

    I don't think anyone is going to confuse this for PS4/Xbox One. 
    correct. They're also not going to confuse it for PS1, because you haven't got a clue of  the actual practical requirements of making art to fit those technical specs that you linked (ngggh), and if you actually have a grasp of how those games looked (like that Back To 1995 game, which seems to do a very good job at nailing the retro vibe) you freely admit to not caring about implementing it. So, really, whats the point? Why not rename the thread to "JordanN's Half-Arsed Low-Poly Comfort Zone" and embrace that?

    JordanN said:
    I'm scared to give an answer because if I say something today, but something tomorrow happens, there's no way I can walk back on a sentence.

    what? ...

    ... what?

  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    Odow said:
    I'm just really sad that you drop the Stylized Physically Based Cartoon Rendering.
    It still exists. It's what the war cartoon I posted yesterday was about.

    Each time I finish those assets in CGI, I remodel them again for PS1 so I can post them here. But I'm making the scenes first so the PS1 stuff follows after it a bit later.
  • danr
    Offline / Send Message
    danr polycounter lvl 13
    JordanN said:

    Each time I finish those assets in VFX, I remodel them again for PS1 so I can post them here.
    what? ....

    ... what?
  • Joopson
    Offline / Send Message
    Joopson Polycount Sponsor
    VFX? I'm lost.
  • danr
    Offline / Send Message
    danr polycounter lvl 13
    /actually you know what, i totally don't give a shit. Mong away/
  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    Man I was trying to throw you a bone and engage you in a discussion about what you're evangelizing but you don't even seem to respect PS1 art if it isn't yours.
    I actually learned some new things and applied them to my work because I played PS1 games. Like, I was previously unaware Naughty Dog did used baked lighting in their PS1 games. My first examples in this thread (the Playstation or the Driver clone) where just textures with colored tints applied to them.

    I personally don't see how I don't respect this stuff when every other day, I post and praise PS1 games. I choose not to copy them all the way out of respect they did it better than I could.
  • TeriyakiStyle
    Offline / Send Message
    TeriyakiStyle insane polycounter
    Artists of that day did amazing things under strict limitations - they made compelling art and made the development of the hardware power we enjoy today financially viable.  We could all learn something if someone would carefully consider and document the technical decisions those artist made.

    You're not really acknowledging these contributions by examining and celebrating the art form.  What your doing resembles a carrion bird picking over a carcass of past achievements to further your own limited interests.  You're regurgitating, and re-eating and regurgitating a once fine meal. 
  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    Actually, I could give a good reason behind this.

    I wasn't the first person to play loose with retro limitations. I remember Shovel Knight doing the same thing. The game goes for an 8-bit or NES aesthetics and arguably looks more closer to the target platform than mine. But, it still can't be played on the NES in its original form.
    Article here: 
    http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DavidDAngelo/20140625/219383/Breaking_the_NES_for_Shovel_Knight.php

    Now, it's up to you to say if what Yacht Club did was ok. For me however, I'm actually doing the inverse where I'm not actually ignoring the limits. But what I'm doing is "stretching them".

    Remember, the PS1 only had a frame rate limit. It could always process more data but this degraded performance. The NES had a hard cap on what sprites it could actually display.

    Edit: In fact, everything I made so far can theoretically run on the PS1. There's no sound, physics/collision detection, AI in these screenshots. Only the amount of textures might have been a problem, but that could very well be streamed off the CD a la Crash Bandicoot did.
  • TeriyakiStyle
    Offline / Send Message
    TeriyakiStyle insane polycounter
    Alright.  I can't say I understand your goals - But I'm trying to be nicer so I wish you the best and hope you find a path that leads to personal growth.  :*
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna sublime tool
    @JordanN, ur mom & I told u to stop posting on Polycount. That's it, ur gruonded
  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    One final commentary before I go to bed. 

    I know it was said before that all these comments are a result of my action, and I agree with that. I can't control what comes out of people's mouths. I also learned this before in real life. No amount of what I say will ever deter how someone elses mind works. 

    I think the more important lesson I learned and will apply in the future, is that I shouldn't feel shame for any kind of art I decide to do. The PS1, UE4, CGI, Mobile, Marmoset etc. Even the presentation, teasers, fun making process falls under this. I can only post stuff and look at the reception.

    I shouldn't let comments bother me as even if I'm wrong or right, it's not always about pleasing everyone. Maybe this finally answers what I'm about to do next and so I wont repeat these mistakes again.
  • Biomag
    Offline / Send Message
    Biomag polycounter lvl 3
    I love the fact that this thread is getting so much feedback, while at the same time people are having this discussion
  • Michael Knubben
    JordanN said:

    I know it was said before that all these comments are a result of my action, and I agree with that. I can't control what comes out of people's mouths.
    That sounds like you disagree with that.
    You can control what other people say, to an important extent. People are responding to your actions here, they're not just talking about the weather.

  • MiAlx
    Offline / Send Message
    MiAlx polycounter lvl 7
    I was trying to not get involved, but ok.

    That's all fine @JordanN, nobody is telling you to stop the fun, to stop "exploring your vision" and the things you like about art. BUT you don't seem to see that the people here are trying to push you to think while you work on your things. Yes, you know that naughty dog used baked lighting, but do you know why they chose to bake lighting? And if you know why they chose to bake lighting, what else could they have done instead of that? Why didn't they? etc. Those are just examples.

    Teriyaki, instead of spamming you with cat gifs, showed you a picture of a ps1 game and wanted to start a discussion with you about the very topic you love (ps1 art). You could have learned things about the technical limitations, older texturing workflows (also WHY they textured the way they did etc.)  from him, and from all the other guys here for that matter. You could have discussed art style, shown them what you work on and then try and tweak your work towards the overall feedback.

    This wouldn't have harmed your "vision" OR your fun. You don't have to do all your work like they tell you to, but it would have been incredibly helpful for you to follow their train of thought and maybe discover things about the very style you love. After that you could have gone back to making your war cartoon, but with having a bunch of new knowledge!

    You seem to be aware of certain aspects of "ps1 art", but when it comes down to the actual whole of why that art looks like it does, you miss the bigger picture. You are not analyzing and processing, you take a screenshot from a game and you try to imitate it style-wise. Even if you learn all the ps1 specifications from wikipedia by heart, they won't help you on their own.

    Now you have two choices.

    Either you just post something like "so! here is a teaser for my war cartoon! southpark.gif" and pretend that we are all here after the council of evil made the decision to smite you.

    Or you can sit down, read and think and see that we aren't here to ruin your attempt at "making art unique again", we are/were trying to push you past an amateur-like way of thinking.  :)

    That's all! 
     
  • C86G
    Offline / Send Message
    C86G polycounter lvl 5
    I love your threads, JordanN.

    Please post some art.
  • LilyNion
    Offline / Send Message
    LilyNion vertex
    I really tried my best to ignore this all, especially as a new-ish member. But please, try and listen to what the community is saying. They mean it and they try to help you. I've seen some great advice here and you are just pushing it away. But I know, if you just took the time to listen and try to follow it, you'll make such great steps and reach your goal faster than ever. 

    Don't fight it, just do it. The only way to learn is by noticing your mistakes, listening to others and improving, not by closing your eyes.
  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    Edit: Wrong post.
  • MrPie
    Offline / Send Message
    MrPie polycounter lvl 3
    I came here to see art, got walls of text instead. *Sigh* Love how the thread was put on the feed  but the thumbnail is of art not of your own doing. Brilliant.
  • JordanN
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanN polycounter lvl 5
    I got an interesting idea going forward.

    I was going to make a new thread to present the War Scene and keep this one to post more PS1 Art. But I actually want to "split up" the War Cartoon into two separate ones.

    The reason for this is because I want to do the scene using two artstyles. The realistic one and this "hyper stylized" cartoony one. Because these assets use up far more polygons, I rather reuse them again instead of having to keep making lower poly versions of the same props just to have it look like the CG again. 

    I think when I get another PS1-centric idea I'll revisit this. The nostalgia has kind of passed compared to when I first started on this.
  • cameronhorst
    Wow, as someone who has yet to feel comfortable posting their work on here, this thread is not encouraging.  At a certain point, you guys just need to give your feedback and criticism and allow JordanN to take it or leave it.  There is a lot of good feedback in here that I feel is not being utilized, but there is a lot of off topic personal criticism that seems to just be here to tear someone down.  As someone who struggles with their confidence as an artist, I'm not sure I'll be posting on here until I am actually in the industry, for fear of being treated like this.  This guy is clearly not a pro, so y'all gotta chillax a bit. 

    [Edit] - Didn't realize JordanN had so many prior threads.  If there were similar communication issues, I can understand some of the people becoming annoyed.  Regardless, my opinion still stands about the personal attacks and the overall lack of chill :)

    -JordanN, I had a couple thoughts...

     I really dig your very fist model on here of the ps1!  Maybe go back to focusing on individual props and small environment models and try to reach the level of that first post.  Meanwhile try and focus on the process and improving your speed.  

    Once you can crank these out pretty quickly I would take the advice of someone earlier in the thread and try to choose a screenshot from a ps1 game you love and try to break it down, analyze it, and recreate it as closely as you can.  I'm sure you would learn a lot from the process, and it will be easier to tackle your own scenes after.

    Keep it up!
2
Sign In or Register to comment.