Zbrush messing up the scale

Sunray

Hey i was working on a a character and kept everything real life sizedin zbrush but i loaded myt ztool up after not opening it for a week. And the scale got messedup it's really tiny and now my clothes i exported out marvelous don't fit. I was wondering if anyone knows why zbrush did this and if you can fix this.  

musashidan

There is no real-life scale in ZB A ztool wouldn't just change scale between file openings. Did you use goz at any stage? Did you set MD to cm? Did you run the model through any other applications?

Sunray

musashidan said:

There is no real-life scale in ZB A ztool wouldn't just change scale between file openings. Did you use goz at any stage? Did you set MD to cm? Did you run the model through any other applications?

You sure there is no real scale in zBrush i always bring my body mesh into maya measure it up and export it into zBrush is the star primitive. It will keep the scale of what i scaled it in maya like 180 cm so i have a big model and all the zbrush tools work fine with it. And i could just export and import it into maya for a good amount of time and it would come out with a good scale. But somehow the scale is all different now. And i really don't know why i didn't use goz (I'm on maya 2017) Didn't put my model through any other applications and yes i did put marvelous to cm.

Thanks for the quick reply.

musashidan

What I mean by ZB has no real-life scale is that the reason it is 180cm is because you set it at that in Maya. So when you manually export/import between ZB/Maya the scale stays the same if your .obj im/ex settings are correct. For instance, the difference between ZB scale and 3dsMax is a factor of 10 when using .obj. ZB uses its own scale (all the primitives or unifying a tool is the default) and it is much smaller than Maya/Max. That's why I use the Styx plugin. ZB scale is a pain in the arse.

I've no idea how that might have happened. Ztool files are pretty much indestructible. I've been using them to save since ZB 1.5 and never once had one fail. So more than likely it occurred on one of your many trips between ZB/Maya.

Sunray

musashidan said:

What I mean by ZB has no real-life scale is that the reason it is 180cm is because you set it at that in Maya. So when you manually export/import between ZB/Maya the scale stays the same if your .obj im/ex settings are correct. For instance, the difference between ZB scale and 3dsMax is a factor of 10 when using .obj. ZB uses its own scale (all the primitives or unifying a tool is the default) and it is much smaller than Maya/Max. That's why I use the Styx plugin. ZB scale is a pain in the arse.

I've no idea how that might have happened. Ztool files are pretty much indestructible. I've been using them to save since ZB 1.5 and never once had one fail. So more than likely it occurred on one of your many trips between ZB/Maya.

Thanks i guess that makes sense Styx plugin looks awesome do you know by any chance if it works with maya 2017?

amontes

I don't know what workflow you use to solve the scale issues from ZB to marvellous guys. I tried once exporting a model created from a zsphere to MD to use it as an avatar and it happened the same to me as Sunray.

I am about to start learning MD seriously so what would you recommend me to do, just start from a previously resized zsphere or base mesh? is that the way to go? I'd love to hear your workflow.

Thanks in advance mates!

Sunray

amontes said:

I don't know what workflow you use to solve the scale issues from ZB to marvellous guys. I tried once exporting a model created from a zsphere to MD to use it as an avatar and it happened the same to me as Sunray.

I am about to start learning MD seriously so what would you recommend me to do, just start from a previously resized zsphere or base mesh? is that the way to go? I'd love to hear your workflow.

Thanks in advance mates!

I sculpt my body first beforei do anything i md not the detailstho just get allthe forms. After that i export my model to maya measure it out to makesure it's using real life scale. I like to use cm in maya since i do i also put md in cm after i'm done with simulating the clothes i export the clothes out without any thickness. Than i import my body back in zbrush with the clothes and zremesh them add thickness with edgeloops (ev at -100). After that i like to sdiv my mesh around 3 times and mask the front polygroupsof the mesh and project the details back i lost in zremeshing the mesh. After that i just sculpt on it until i think it looks good. 

Hopes this helps i'm still pretty new to md but this is what works for me.

fuzzzzzz

Edited :
Just as reminder, about scaling in Zbrush :
obj file format has no scale variable support
to define the model scale ratio zbrush apply some math
Scale in Zbrush :
1 unit = 1*2 ( global scale is always 2.00002)
if you have a cube of 1'1'1 and a scale of  1 in maya, after the importing in Zbrush

XYZ size = 2.0002
X = 2.00002
Y = 2.00002
Z = 2.00002

Now if you have a box of 1'2'3 with a scale of  1 in maya, after the importing in zbrush
all independent Scale Axis value are defined on the boundary box

XYZ = 2.00002
X = 0.66668 = 1*2/3
Y = 1.33335 = 2*2/3
Z = 2.00002 = 1

Here the biggest value of the boundary box, become the value to apply math to other axis.
Z = 3.0 units in maya, it makes the value to be the biggest  value.
Zbrush compute some more value that are important for the moment you will export the model back into your 3d editor.
This Value are automatically adjusted in Tool:Export :Scale , X/Y/Z offset.
When these value are changed, the model will always load with the wrong scaling.
when you export from Zbrush, the inverse math is apply, and utilize the value from tool:Export palet, so the new mesh will reflect the unit and scaling that were setup from maya/ 3dsmax etc..

Sunray

fuzzzzzz said:

Just as reminder, about scaling in Zbrush, when you import an obj file into Zbrush, imagine you got a box of 1.0*2.0*3.0  (X*Y*Z) with a scale of 1 in Maya.
When imported into Zbrush, XYZ size become  1.0,   so X size = 1.0, Y size = 2.0  and  Z size : 3.0
It use the min /max value of the vertices position defined into the Obj file. This apply when you import/export Obj file.
Now if you change the XYZ size, to 2.0 xyz will give you X=2.0 Y=4.0 Z=6.0,
it means the vertex that where positioned at 1.0 on the X axis, will now take a position value of  2.0 etc.. same with Y that become 4.0 and Z is 6.0.
That annoying, but there is nothing that Zbrush can do to handle a global scale factor.

Hey,

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying but what do you mean by change the xyz size? I never changed something about the scale inside zbrush or maya atleast that i know of.

fuzzzzzz

sorry i was unclear i just edited and rephrased that, i don't tell you how to resolve the issue you encounter, but just some information maybe you could retrieve the correct value applying this math

musashidan

@sunray your workflow sounds good. To avoid all the scaling issues I highly recommend Styx. I have been using it now for a few months and I can't imagine life without it. It completely eliminates the scale issues in ZB, ensures a seamless bridge between ZB/Max/Maya, and is only 5 quid.

Here's a recent vid from my YT channel showing Styx. (Skip to 18.30)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKyoBMklNY4

amontes

Sunray said:

I sculpt my body first beforei do anything i md not the detailstho just get allthe forms. After that i export my model to maya measure it out to makesure it's using real life scale. I like to use cm in maya since i do i also put md in cm after i'm done with simulating the clothes i export the clothes out without any thickness. Than i import my body back in zbrush with the clothes and zremesh them add thickness with edgeloops (ev at -100). After that i like to sdiv my mesh around 3 times and mask the front polygroupsof the mesh and project the details back i lost in zremeshing the mesh. After that i just sculpt on it until i think it looks good. 

Hopes this helps i'm still pretty new to md but this is what works for me.

Yep, that was what I was thinking, so you need to get it into real life scale to be able to work with it on MD.  Thanks guys, let's see what I can get with MD

musashidan

amontes said:

Sunray said:

I sculpt my body first beforei do anything i md not the detailstho just get allthe forms. After that i export my model to maya measure it out to makesure it's using real life scale. I like to use cm in maya since i do i also put md in cm after i'm done with simulating the clothes i export the clothes out without any thickness. Than i import my body back in zbrush with the clothes and zremesh them add thickness with edgeloops (ev at -100). After that i like to sdiv my mesh around 3 times and mask the front polygroupsof the mesh and project the details back i lost in zremeshing the mesh. After that i just sculpt on it until i think it looks good. 

Hopes this helps i'm still pretty new to md but this is what works for me.

Yep, that was what I was thinking, so you need to get it into real life scale to be able to work with it on MD.  Thanks guys, let's see what I can get with MD

Yes, MD simulation  works on real-world physical attributes. Anything wildly exaggerated outside realism will explode the sim. It is generally good practice to work in real-world dimensions,  anyway, when creating anything in 3D.

amontes

musashidan said:

Yes, MD simulation  works on real-world physical attributes. Anything wildly exaggerated outside realism will explode the sim. It is generally good practice to work in real-world dimensions,  anyway, when creating anything in 3D.

Thanks mate, I have usually worked in the tiny scale of zbrush unless I needed to rescale it for any purpose. I've got problems for that reason like once that I had to deal with mixamo and in this case the same. I'll take your advise into consideration and get rid of bad habits XD.

musashidan

amontes said:

musashidan said:

Yes, MD simulation  works on real-world physical attributes. Anything wildly exaggerated outside realism will explode the sim. It is generally good practice to work in real-world dimensions,  anyway, when creating anything in 3D.

Thanks mate, I have usually worked in the tiny scale of zbrush unless I needed to rescale it for any purpose. I've got problems for that reason like once that I had to deal with mixamo and in this case the same. I'll take your advise into consideration and get rid of bad habits XD.

Yes, in ZB I always work in the native scale as it's most predictable but, I will always rescale to real-world and reset the transforms when I get into Max for final asset prep.

Sunray

going to buy styx later today.

musashidan

Sunray said:

going to buy styx later today.

Best 5 quid you'll ever spend, my friend.

amontes

I'm gonna try to do it manually for now just to get the idea but I'm sure I'll be buying it soon too because it looks a really great time saver plugin. Thanks musashidan, interesting youtube channel btw .

Sunray

@musashidan Oh dude styx is so much faster than goz this is amazing but the only thing that i don't get is how you get zbrush layers to blendshapes in maya would you know how to do that?

Also do you know any more plugins that are as good as this one except for zscene manager already got that one and I love it.

fuzzzzzz

i found a new tweak to resize, so if you know that the height of the character is  180 centimeters

go at Zplugin :3d printing exporter :  2-change the size. set the unit you want ( mm) and if the height is Y axis enter  1800 mm
and you can export visible/selected /all subtools as obj files.
i loaded the mesh in 3Dsmax and the size is the correct

amontes

fuzzzzzz said:

i found a new tweak to resize, so if you know that the height of the character is  180 centimeters

go at Zplugin :3d printing exporter :  2-change the size. set the unit you want ( mm) and if the height is Y axis enter  1800 mm
and you can export visible/selected /all subtools as obj files.
i loaded the mesh in 3Dsmax and the size is the correct

Cheers fuzzz, I'll give it a try to that trick.

musashidan

@sunray as far as I know it does transfer Maya blenshapes as you can import/export layers but, I haven't tested it in Maya. Yes, Zscenemanager is brilliant. I bought the Pro as soon as I saw it. As for other plugs I just use the ones in the vid above. If you go to the zscripts and utilities sub-forum on ZBC there are shit loads of scripts/macros/plugins. Definitely worth a browse to see if anything would help you in your workflow. A lot of people constantly complain about ZB UI but, just like any software, a few scripts and some customisation goes a very long way in improving your workflow.

@amontes cheers mate.

Sunray

musashidan said:

@sunray as far as I know it does transfer Maya blenshapes as you can import/export layers but, I haven't tested it in Maya. Yes, Zscenemanager is brilliant. I bought the Pro as soon as I saw it. As for other plugs I just use the ones in the vid above. If you go to the zscripts and utilities sub-forum on ZBC there are shit loads of scripts/macros/plugins. Definitely worth a browse to see if anything would help you in your workflow. A lot of people constantly complain about ZB UI but, just like any software, a few scripts and some customisation goes a very long way in improving your workflow.

@amontes cheers mate.

Hey i don't know if something is wrong with my Zbrush but i exported my body subtool with styx to maya. Scale was real world i modeled some stuff in Maya for armor and did not export anything yet. Later i went into Zbrush and sculpted some shoes and exported them out to Maya. The scale was really small so i exported the body out again to see if it were just the shoes for some reason messing up. But my body was also small it's really annoying i didn't close Zbrush or change anything to the body. The only thing that i can think of why the scale is all messed up again is that Zscenemanger messes up the scale of everything up if you open it. Would you know by any change if Zscenemanger  does that if it does it sucks pretty bad. 

musashidan

Did you set up your .obj scale import/export options in Maya? You need to do this once before using Styx. In Max I have export set to 1 and import set to 10. I believe Maya is the same.

Sunray

musashidan said:

Did you set up your .obj scale import/export options in Maya? You need to do this once before using Styx. In Max I have export set to 1 and import set to 10. I believe Maya is the same.

No didn't do that thanks for the help man.

Brian123

Hopefully this helps.

When you import a model into a fresh tool with no subdivisions, a record of the scale and position is added to the export panel on the bottom right panels. This ensures whatever changes Zbrush did to work correctly within its workspace, that it is then reverted once you export the tool.

 Though, sometimes those settings in the export panel are lost and reset to default values. Some operations cause this. Best to save these properties somewhere as your normal workflow in case this happens.

If it's already reset, try selecting a basic tool, like the star, then import your original mesh to Zbrush. Write down the properties in the export panel, scale and xyz. Then switch to the tool that's not exporting at the correct scale and input those properties. Hopefully that will fix it, but you never know.

ray40

So! this shit is still happening, 3 years later. I exported my ztool and looks tiny in max/maya. I've been sending objs from one to another lots of times, but today, it became tiny. I haven't touched anything! It doesn't matter that I restart, reset the scenes, export/import with different methods...all the tools coming from zbrush are now really small in max/maya.
Did you manage to fix it @Sunray ?

sprunghunt

there is a scale setting in zbrush. It's under the 'Export' menu. When you import a mesh from an OBJ file it will set this setting. This ensures that when you export your model it will come out in the same position as the model in the OBJ file. 

however if you accidentially set this back to the default you'll get problems with your mesh suddenly not lining up to the model in maya/max/blender. 

here's the menu: 
http://docs.pixologic.com/reference-guide/tool/polymesh/export/



I'd check it out. 

kanga

Yep +1 to sprunghunt's advice. I don't care what scale my object is at in ZB, just as long as my sculpting and modelling tools have their full range.  What works for me is if I have to bringing a base model into ZB, I unify it so it is the right scale for sculpting/modelling, then immediately goz that back to whatever app. Then just play with the export settings (you see above) until its the right size and position in the other app. Throw away the other app original and use the gozeded version in that app. Save the tool in ZB and it saves the export settings with it. Good to go!

onionhead_o

it very silly that its still so much hassle to keep that correct scale between zbrush and other apps. Occasionally I get wrong scale when I export from zbrush. I never get this issue in mudbox, what I import is what i get at export. very simple. And think about it for a sec, someone has to make a plugin just to make transferring back and forth to keep consistency in zbrush. What kind of Logic is that? Pixologic?lol