Circled Princial Cervelliere - Agatha archer helm

quad damage
Offline / Send Message
pior quad damage
Hello all !

Spudnik and I just finished an archer helmet that we originally started for the contest. I am very glad that we have the opportunity to submit it now ! Alex took care of the highpoly sculpt and lowpoly model, and I took care of the concept and textures.

Steam Workshop page

E2B3E8217F615769CFE375C1A7E73F96D2342660

1E699B42EE207D65C3E15232D3A45C9E15AD7E5E

A8BAE5D03E9ED7644F76FFAA877B414E260F4CA8

491DA099980643D0EBB012EDA26179EF509EC292

C74F0B9407E8411344DF7A872661E4DE37DCE600

h17_concept_zpsbcd890f3.jpg~original

The contest taught us a lot about making things fit into Chivalry as best as possible, both from a design and execution standpoint. It really was a very interesting experience.

I hope you will like it !

Replies

  • JO420
    Offline / Send Message
    JO420 sublime tool
    Its a nice design but i cant help to think that circular element would get in the way of string when aiming.Especially if the fighting would be frantic I could see an arrow or two going the wrong way due to that element.
  • jackalope
    Offline / Send Message
    jackalope polycounter lvl 7
    Very nice. Your textures look great.
  • Noth
    Offline / Send Message
    Noth polycounter lvl 8
    Is that circular gold element supposed to be plated in gold? Only way the edge wear works I guess. These must be mass produced for Agatha archers, haha. Is the cap boiled leather or something? The little pieces of metal near the face lead me to think there is metal under it supporting the leather shape. I think the key thing that keep's something from being fantasy is justifying your shapes with plausible material use and definition. I like the circular element, the actual helm parts don't really say helm to me. What you think?
  • JO420
    Offline / Send Message
    JO420 sublime tool
    The Materials look too fine for an archer,they were the scum on the battlefield while the knights were the nobility. So archer gear I always see as a bit rag tag,stitched together for a fighter that isn't given too much respect on the battlefield.

    In the battle of Agincourt,the French showed up with 3000 mounted Knights mostly nobility,while Henry V brought 500 archers,mostly scum and ex prisoners and thieves trained as longbow men. The French laughed at the English because fighting with such peasantry was was unheard of until the next day England's 500 archers decimated the France's nobility using mostly archers.

    The reason I am not to keen on the circular element,if you look at Medieval gear,aside from jousting armor,none of the armor has anything sticking out the sides like horns for example. Because if you are in a pitched battle,if someone grabs your helmet by the horns they can throw you to the ground and stab you while you lie helplessly. I mentioned Agincourt earlier because archers did fight melee in battles and having something on you gear that is a potential disadvantage is unheard of. That's why most armor from medieval times is meant to deflect blows and close off potential chinks in the armor that can get you killed. For example look at Gothic Plate armor,there is typically a round metal plate at the armpit,that is because that was a spot often exploited by enemies to kill knights,often using a small dagger.

    Not to sound to harsh but your helmet looks better suited for the Elves of middle Earth as opposed to Archers in the Middle Ages. It's a beautiful design don't get me wrong,it sticks out way too much in CMW
  • soulstice
    Offline / Send Message
    soulstice polycounter lvl 9
    Love the way that turned out, especially the circular halo on the forehead and the cloud pattern decal!
  • pior
    Offline / Send Message
    pior quad damage
    Noth, I agree ! This is indeed the most beneficial thing I am getting out of this contest. It forced me to research and understand a bit how medieval armor is actully made, and I am gradually trying to implement that in my designs now. I am still not there yet but keep working on it !

    JO, these are very good points. Chivalry really is an interesting creative sandbox - the historical believability of the designs is important (although time periods seem to mix quite a bit) but the gameplay itself also adds an extra layer of design requirements that I find interesting. I do agree about the circular hoop being impractical - you are correct, in real life it could be grabbed or hooked rather easily :)

    The idea behind it was purely visual : I could imagine a team of 4 players (MAA, Knight, Archer and Vanguard) all sharing a common visual trait. For instance, these 4 characters could all come from the same royal family (even though that obviously doesn't really make sense in a historical battle setting !), sharing similar visual ornaments (bold, golden-plated graphic shapes) and each a sporting a different graphic symbol, similarly to a deck of cards. I obviously took inspiration from samurai and chinese medieval gear here, since if I understand correctly, their helmets had strong visual elements to help identifying the warriors during battle.

    All your points remain valid though ! This is definitely something I need to keep in mind. I suppose that I am always driven by a desire to invent new forms and shapes, and I certainly need to be careful with that. I do not want to do straight-on replicas though, because even though these are very likely to be popular (something that the comments on existing workshop items seem to confirm) they tend to be a little less challenging from a creative standpoint. However they are still a great technical exercise, so I probably should do a couple for the sake of practice !

    Thank you for sharing the anecdote about the english at Agincourt ! At least we got to kick their asses a few years later thanks to our very own make-believe hot crazy witch in armor :D
  • Noth
    Offline / Send Message
    Noth polycounter lvl 8
    Pior, it is the mark of a great Artist to accept constructive critique so decorously. I commend you!

    Also, I would like to note that I think there is room for pieces like that circular element. Battle attire isn't always 100% practical killing garb, there are other things at stake. Like rank/ego/social status, and probably more importantly, visual identifiers - like Pior mentioned.

    If everything is completely confined to what has been created through history the store library will likely become homogeneous eventually. This is a advantage DOTA has, being full on Fantasy, and something I think Torn Banner recognizes considering the items chosen for the Arms and Armour comp. Rule of thumb, justify your shapes with plausible materials, and then define those surfaces accordingly. This should allow for things to look like they could be made real world, while still being creative.

    keep em comin'!
  • JO420
    Offline / Send Message
    JO420 sublime tool
    I commend you for that as well Pior, I made similar critiques during the competition and was met with rather hostile responses due to it. Doesn't mean you have to change anything based on what I said,I love the game,play it often and one of the reasons I loved it is because of the Medieval aesthetics which specifically looked realistically inspired.

    I am not saying however all designs should be a 1 to 1 copy of a preexisting historical example,but perhaps that it should be the basis and built from there.

    I do think it is tricky to make weapons for this game that are both unique and adhere to Medieval aesthetics. The part about fantasy that makes it easier IMO to design gear and weapons is that,off course its just made up. Most designs work because the only limitation is your imagination.

    Medieval designs look the way they do based on lessons learned from battle and the designs often conform to function as opposed to pure looks. For example check out the cross gaurd on the iconic Claymore sword.

    scottish-claymore-sword-11.jpg

    Pretty cool design isnt it? The upward tilting cross guard has its function,if you were to parry a blow with a claymore's cross guard,the upward titling angle means that the opponent,has to pull his sword away to disengage putting the enemy in the defensive,giving the guy with the claymore the initiative.


    One more is the Bascinet helmet,created for the hound set. Also a cool looking design,and the design also has its function. If you notice,the helmet has almost no flat services,so if an arrow lands on it or a sword swing hits it,the curved shape of the helmet will deflect it away thus sparing either sword penetration and a certain degree of blunt for trauma.


    European_Pigface_Bascinet.jpg
  • pior
    Offline / Send Message
    pior quad damage
    Totally man, and the irony of it all is that even when the task at hand is to design a fantasy item, chances are, the best designs are still going to be the ones rooted in reality. The Greentooth helmet designed by the Torn Banner team is a perfect example of that.

    Which is why I am very glad to have participated in this contest, and am now looking forward to doing more Chivalry items ... as well as more fantasy designs for other games too, benefiting from this newly gained knowledge. Thanks for the references !
  • Dim
    Started a style guide that may be of some use for clarity in this discussion.
  • Noth
    Offline / Send Message
    Noth polycounter lvl 8
    Nice Dim, just read through that. Hollywood Realism is a great way to put it, haha. Need that cool factor. It would be interesting to see if we could create a common ground for certain materials (Iron, Steel, Gold, Leather) used in Chivalry. Almost like DDO Presents being exported. Another way to do that would be to supply small tiling textures D/S/G/N that are tweaked to Chivalry Standards for people to use that as a base. Might help to add a level of consistency. Just an idea.
Sign In or Register to comment.