Elf [Character]

1
polycounter lvl 6
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Popol polycounter lvl 6
WORKFLOW BREAKDOWN (post#25) Zbrush armor sculpting

LATEST UPDATE

Elf_beautyshot03.jpg


Hi there Polycounters!

I recently began working on a new character for my portfolio. I chose a concept made by Bang Seung-ho (his CGHub gallery : http://victorbang.cghub.com/images/).
The main reasons I chose this concept are :
- I'm slowly getting comfortable sculpting stylized female characters and I want to push this further.
- The highly detailed armor is gonna be a challenge as I've never done something like this.
- Pushing my texturing a lot more than I usually do.

Here's the concept :

Elf01.jpg

Here's what I've got so far

elf03.jpg
elf04.jpg

This is some very early stuff. I'm just blocking in the proportions of the armor before modeling the clean meshes.
You may have noticed that I didn't follow the concept for the face as I want to add my own personal twist to it

I would love some critiques !

Replies

  • Stirls
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    Stirls polycounter lvl 4
    Shoulders are too small, man. Also, the arms seem a bit short in comparison to the rest of the body. Check your proportion references, as I may be wrong.
  • ysalex
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    ysalex greentooth
    Hey man, looking very nice, you're off to a great start, especially on the armor - very clean.

    My only crits are anatomy wise. To me it seems like the arms connect too low on her shoulders, almost like her arms are attaching underneath her armpit, rather than a shoulder attaching to her back.

    Also, because you/the concept have lengthened the torso and legs, it is making the arms look too short to my eye. The bicep actually looks fine, it's the forearm that seems too short, and also a bit thick compared to the delicate legs and body.

    Last, the face you have has an overall shape like a triangle pointing down. Her cranium is very square starting at the temples, narrow, and long. Concept, if you're going for a recreation, is shorter, more round, but you got the pointyness of the chin - its mostly just the top of the skull shape that seems off.

    If you are not going for recreation, I still think the eyesockets could have more shape, and flow better into the temple.

    Anyways, hope I was clear. Ignore me if you disagree, since the work is looking great the way you are going.
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Stiris & ysalex : Thanks for pointing out what was wrong with the shoulder. I've been looking at this model for a little bit too long so that I can't even see huge anatomical errors anymore.

    ysalex : It think you are correct about the forearm, I'll change that. however I don't want to stick to exactly the same anatomy as the concept as it is too stylized I think ^^ Head super small and super long legs as you can see more clearly on this paint over :
    Elf_proportions.jpg

    And about the head I wanted to do my own thing, a mix between anime and realistic, something like Terra (that's the only example that comes to my mind right now ^^). As I think the head on the concept look too childish because of its roundness.

    Thanks for the crits man =)
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    It took me longer than I expected to get the proportions of the armor right. The arm and shoulder armors were very tricky as on the concept there is a lot of "2D cheating" haha. I had to make some adjustments so it doesn't look wrong in 3D. I actually had to remove the sort of spike under the shoulder pad or it would have punctured her breast!

    Next step is to make the clean meshes in 3D-Coat and Blender. After that I'll finally sculpt all the little details on the armor.

    elf06.jpg
  • Di$array
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    Di$array polycounter lvl 5
    Cracking start bud. Really like the progress you've made, especially the armour and if the rest of it is along the lines of the groin guard it's going to look great.

    The few crits I’ve got is that the brow could be smoothed out and it’s reading a little sharp, same could be said for the nose too. Also the fringe of the hair should be hugging the head when you look at the concept....unless you’re diverting from the concept to create an area of interest.

    I enjoyed you Amon thread so I’m looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Good luck.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir polycounter
    please take a look at those abdominals man... they balloon out so harshly at the bottom, they should be tapering inward toward the crotch.
  • Judgernaut
    Looking good so far!

    I would say that her arms are too short, and also where her arms connect into her shoulder may be too low. I would also say that the shoulders are too narrow. While women obviously have narrower shoulders than men, hers might be a bit extreme.

    Nice work so far though! Keep up the good work!
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Di$array : I agree, I should soften these features, it makes her face look too "cartoon" with such sharp edges. I will bring her hair closer to her head when I'll create the hair strips. And thanks for the kind words, it really helps me to keep working hard! =)

    almighty_gir : I'll have a look at my refs to see what is exactly wrong with that area. Thanks for the pointer.
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Judgernaut : Oh ok, thanks man, with what you just said I now understand that I misunderstood ysalex's crits about her arms, haha. I gotta change that before going any further!
  • Judgernaut
    Glad I could help! Armor is looking really nice btw!
  • X³²Lapis
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    X³²Lapis polycounter lvl 4
    awesome progress, aside from what the others have said so far I think her scapulas are too big they are quite close to the center line. I would understand it being that close if she was pulling her shoulders back.

    shoulder_crit.jpg

    Just my humble opinion

    Edit: woops I mean just too close not too big
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    X³²Lapis : Oh man, I can't believe I didn't notice this sooner, haha. I'll pull them apart so that they look relaxed. Thanks!
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir polycounter
    another thing i noticed. you need to pull either the nose, nostrils, or nasolabial area forward. it's not too obvious in the closeups but in the zoomed out pictures you can see a huge concave area at the corner of the nostril on the face.
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Small update! I made changes according to your feedback. Thanks to everyone who took some of their time to critic my work =)

    Let me know if there is still some errors.

    elf07.jpg

    elf08.jpg
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Small update on the armor

    elf09.jpg
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Another update on the armor. Wish I could sculpt the details faster but it takes a shit load of time to look good.

    elf10.jpg
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Pretty much finished with the armor. Still have to sculpt the gloves and the fur.

    elf11.jpg
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Started the lowpoly

    elf12.jpg
  • Fingus
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    Fingus polycounter lvl 7
    Hnnnnngh that's tight!

    What's with the strange edges on the shoulderpad though? Z-fighting?
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    The screen is from Zbrush. It looks like Z-fighting, but I checked in Marmoset and it doesn't happen in the engine, so that's ok.
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 6
    I really like how her armors come out. How do you make them that nice ?
    I'm making Ramza Beoulve and I'm struggling with his armors>_<"
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir polycounter
    hey man, sorry it's taken me so long to post feedback, but here goes!

    here's your own "after":
    DiAdUEH.jpg

    and here's my critique:
    icB84bv.jpg

    face:
    - change the shape of the eye slightly, make them more angular toward the inside of the eye, it'll give a more seductive appearance.
    - change the angle of the eyebrow slightly to match the new eye shape, again it will give a more seductive appearance.
    - try to accentuate the cheek bones a little more, but keep the transitions smooth. smooth out the transition from cheek bone to nose a little more, and pull the jaw out a bit just below the ear, it's looking a little concave at the moment.

    back:
    - have drawn the muscle groups on the back for you to take into consideration. the biggest issue is the insertion/origin of the teres minor/major muscle group. on your sculpt they look like they're inserted under the tricep when they should originate above the tricep but below the deltoid.
    - the scapular (shoulder blade) is covered by the teres group, and has the trapezius wrap over the top of it. bear that in mind in your sculpt.

    torso:
    - very rough drawover, you're going in the right direction. but pull the abdominals in a little more, they're still spread a little too wide which gives the illusion of a pot-belly.
    - personally i'd say look at the shape of the boobs a little. they feel like two balls that have just been stuck on, rather than an organic part of her body.

    keep it up man!
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    almighty_gir Thanks a lot for the in depth feedback!
    I'm glad you brought up the breast looking like two balls, because it has been bothering me since the beginning. I consider her breast armor like a corset, so it has to squeeze her boobs. But I was not too sure what they should look like under the armor. So I took one of Hazardous' old sculpt as a reference. What's your opinion of this matter?

    haz_boobs.jpg
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    PyrZern I started writing down my workflow but it wasn't very clear so made I you an image breakdown of how I made her armor. I should help you with your own armor sculpting. If something is not clear don't hesitate to ask.

    Armor_tut01.jpg
    Armor_tut02.jpg
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks much Popol!! I haven't tried using Shadowbox yet, gotta learn it soon :) I was doing hardsurface import from Maya so far, so the armors don't match the body so well.
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Baked the body!

    13.5k triangles so far, maybe I'll manage to stay under 18k.

    elf13.jpg
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 6
    Looks great !
    How do you determine what pieces to be separated and what pieces to stay as one solid mesh ?
    Like, are the hands same pieces with the sleeves, or the kneepads same pieces with her knee, or elbowguards and shoulderpads, and what to do with all the separated pieces after.
    And how many kittens do I gotta kill to shadow your work process. @_@ Gosh, I'm so lost.
  • sefice
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    sefice polycounter lvl 5
    Looking great Popol! I'd like to see how you made those masks, I'm having a hard time making those details in the armor look crisp.
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    PyrZern : Thanks! I try to keep everything in a single mesh as it's easier bake and to deform when animated. But there are stuffs like the stocking suspenders (not sure if it's the correct word) and the elbow guards that would save me triangles if they are separated meshes and just intersecting geometry. Hands and feet are separated meshes in this case too because the intersections are hidden, I'll save some triangles that way too. Shoulder pads and knee pads need to be separated because they are separated objects in real life and need to move independently from the body.

    There isn't really any "rule", it's common sense to most artists. A good way to get this common sense is to bake a lot of character and animating them too. My first characters were a nightmare to animate because I kept separated some objects and they would intersect with the body when moving. Or I kept as a whole mesh some other stuffs and I couldn't move them correctly later.

    To sum it up, it's something you get with experience and a lot of trials and errors.

    sefice : Thanks! All the masks are made with the masking brush. Lazy mouse helped a lot, I just discovered I could use it with the mask brush too ^^ (hold Crtl to get mask brush and activate Lazymouse in the Stroke menu). Ctrl + Alt + click on the mask to make it sharper was helpful too. I would sometime use Claypolish if some of the details were not crisp enough. And always working on very subdivided models.

    Hope it helps!
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Haven't posted in a while =/ Couldn't work on her everyday and I'm at that part of the pipeline where I have to make the hair planes and I really struggle with it.

    Anyway, made the lowpoly of the face, opened her mouth and painted the skin and eyes in Zbrush.

    She's slowly coming to life, hope you like it!

    elf14.jpg
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Just a little update to keep the thread running.

    I'm currently in the texturing process. Only diffuse work so far, so not very interesting but I managed to quickly make a spec and gloss map for the face (only the skin, ignore the shiny hair).

    The UV seems are very visible so if I can't correct that I'll just hide it with the hair planes.

    And I changed her mouth, I think it's way better now!

    elf15.jpg
  • Abrvpt
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    Abrvpt polycounter lvl 4
    Looking good !
    Just a tip though about the face presentation, the camera focal is not really adapted for face close-ups, it deforms the face quite too much.
    Here's a little example to illustrate my point.
    focallengtharticle.jpg
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks for the tip Abrvpt! Couldn't find something called "Focal" in Marmoset but it looks like the "Filed of View" slider has the same effect.
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Update on the texturing!

    Everything is still very WIP but I thought it would be a good idea to show it here and get some harsh crits! Just keep in mind that fur, hair, everything that needs alpha is still untouched.

    elf16.jpg
  • DannSw
    I think this is looking great dude! You should really try to use a translucency/skin tone map if you're not already, I think it could really help - especially around those ears!
  • Lavitz
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    Lavitz polycounter lvl 8
    Coming out great.
    You're colors look beautiful, but the concept's low saturated lighter colors really sell the elf look.
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    DannSw : Thanks! I've never used translucency/skin tone map so far. I'll try it tomorrow.

    Lavitz : I see what you mean. When the diffuse is done I'll play with the saturation to get something closer to the concept.
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    I haven't worked much on this model for a while and it took me an embarrassing amount of time to make the hair as it was the first time I tried to make it only with planes.

    I still need to find a way to make a good transition at the root. And I still wonder if I should use hair cards too for the hair that is pulled back.

    elf20.jpg
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Update on the fur, I'm slowly getting there!

    elf21.jpg
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    The fur is looking great! well actually everything is looking great hehe.
    Can't wait to see more progress on this!
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks for the kind words Marie =)
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    Thought it would be a good idea to give her swords. I spent quite some time sketching different shapes and settled for something quite simple, I don't want her weapons to be too detailed and be the center of attention.

    Adn here's a quite block out of the shapes in Blender.

    concept_sword.jpg
  • NyneDown
    Looking good man! As far as crits on the sword, I would say the handle is probably a little too thin. Looking forward to more.
  • marcel gold
    wow man this is so intense am really really loving this heaps keep up the good work bud are you gonna giv eher a helmet as well?
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    NyneDown : Thanks! =) I made the handle a little ticker, it looked like it was gonna break ^^

    marcel gold : Glad you like it so much! I don't plan to give her a helmet, I wanted to be true to the concept art concerning the armor.

    Sculpt and lowpoly of the sword done. I still have to optimize the lowpoly.

    Currently texturing it but I'm running in some issues as I can't really get the kind of metal I want for the blade... I'll get on this tomorrow then =)

    sword01.jpg
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    I changed the design of the sword and am pretty happy with its final look!

    sword02.jpg

    sword_txt.jpg
  • KristaW
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    KristaW polycounter lvl 4
    This is really turning out nicely. Thanks for sharing your process especially with the armor. And I love the fur so much :)
  • Miche
    Nice work man! I would like to see some more colors in the face though.. Some blue and yellows/greens in there to create some variation ! Looks pretty much the same color everywhere now.. Some more reds on the ear, nose, cheeks and so on.. Paint in some shadows in front of the eye / on the eye to get more natural looking maybe? Anyway, nice job and keep it up !
  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 6
    KristaW Glad I could be helpful =)

    Miche Thanks for the pointers! Yeah it's too uniform now, I'll put some more color in that face.
  • surturiel
    Good work, man! Keep it up!
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