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[WIP] Old Door (help needed!)

For the past month or two (yeah I know, long time) I've been working on a door. Originally I was going to make it as an asset to a larger scene but I have decided to make a thread on just the door.

What have I been doing all this time? Up until a couple days ago I was working on normal map. I've had to redo both the highpoly and the lowpoly over 5 times each. But, like I said, a couple days ago I think I finished the normal map. So then I started to work on the diffuse map. Here is what I've got so far.

Normal Map:
Capture2ff.png?t=1233886213

Diffuse Map:
Capture2sad.png?t=1233886285

Render:
Capture2adf.png?t=1233886331

NOTE: Before I work on the window I want to figure everything else out. So ignore what is that space.

Even though this is posted in the "Pimping and Previews" section, I going to need a lot of help to finish this. This is my first fully custum asset so I will be thankful for any help I can get.

Replies

  • RyRyB
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    RyRyB polycounter lvl 18
    Do you have reference that you are using? Posting that would help immensely in giving more concise critiques. I think this is a good start and you'll have a strong piece with some more texture work.

    That being said, here's a couple of quick things you could do:

    - Localized damage on kick plate, door frame, on door handle (or whatever you call those!), on the edges of the door where palette stacks have run into it and scratched the paint off, etc. Smaller, unique details will start to make this shine. Show some shiny metal under that paint!

    - Change up the saturation on the red. The red works well but having some splotches where it's very slightly less desaturated will help break up the large swaths of red. You can easily do this by using a foreground/background jitter in PS or, in this case, just using an oddly shaped brush with Desaturation tool

    - The big dent on the kickplate doesn't work very well. It feels like it's "floating" above the asset. Hard to describe but it feels tacked on and not part of the structure. Also, a dent that large would probably take a sizeable chunk of paint off.

    Overall, you've got a great start. I think you need to pay attention to how your details sit on the surface of the object (the grime at the bottom where the door meets the kickplate, for example, makes it look flat). I know you're not at the specular map yet, but don't underestimate how crucial a solid spec map is for metal.

    Good luck!
  • Talbot
    Here are some of the reference pictures I've looked at. Keep in mind that I'm not doing an exact model of any of these pictures.

    0000004302.jpg


    0000004326.jpg

    Steel_Fire_Door.jpg

    Thanks for pointing out that the kick plate seems like it is floating. I've been trying to fix that but I haven't come up with anything yet.

    I'll work on this a lot more this weekend. Hopefully I will keep moving forward. :)
  • timwiese
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    timwiese polycounter lvl 9
    You have a ton of wasted space in your Unwrap. That is the first thing you should fix before going any further.

    The big dent as already mentioned doesn't look right, and doesn't make sense. It doesn't look as though this is a thin piece of metal with a wood door behind it. The dents would be very shallow, with harder edges and scratched.

    Also it looks like your door frame is just a wall surrounding the door, Have a look at some door frame references, they are more then just a box.

    Keep going though you have a good start for this being your first asset.
  • Talbot
    Timwiese: You mentioned that my unwrap isn't so hot... I'll give it another shot. I'm thinking about making the back of the door smaller to make more room.
  • Mark Dygert
    1) You don't want black as your background color in your normal map you want something like R128 G128 B255. A nice neutral color that won't cause problems and bleed into the usable space when the image gets mip mapped or re sized.

    2) The unwrap is pretty bad, so much wasted space, but luckily there isn't much happening on the normal map so not much is lost =/
    You're unwrap should look something like this, with as little black as possible (I left it black so you could see the difference in dead space). Really push hard to use every last pixel. You'll never be able to, but always push for it.
    TallbotDoor00.jpg


    3) After you fix the unwrap, you have to pack more detail into the normal map and diffuse, then do a spec map. Not just huge dents, but scratches, wear marks, signs of use, several layers of paint, shrinking, cracking, rot, dirt pushed into all the cracks and crevaces, Bleaching, water stains... There is so much more you could do to this door. And so much more you could be doing with the normal map.

    4) You need to work on the materials. Right now you have a red door, and some yellow trim. Nothing is really defining them as metal, plastic, wood. That's where the spec map comes in and can really help. It will define the shininess of the materials. And if done right will also help sell all the little features of your normal map.

    5) The window is the same color as your trim, and the kick plate is the same color as your door. You're ref has broken wire reinforced windows, thats some really great detail you could add in and yes you can make it dirty and grungy and not have to worry about opacity. =)
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    Jeremy Lindstrom polycounter lvl 18
    The door also looks a little squat, average doors AFAIK, 30 inches wide and usually about 80 inches tall. It could be the angle, but it looks right in vigs uv example. :D
  • Talbot
    g-1.png

    Hows this for a UV unwrap?

    Is there a way to fix the kickplate dent without redoing the highpoly?
  • AshleyTayles
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    AshleyTayles polycounter lvl 9
    Paint over it with the same shade of purple that the rest of it has.
  • Talbot
    AshleyTayles: Wouldn't that screw up the edges of the kickplate also?

    Vig: I've been following the eat3d old pillar and nextgen texturing tutorials so I don't really know how to do specular maps. Can you point me in the right direction?

    Also, how do I add detal to my normal map that is in the highpoly?

    Thanks!
  • Seaseme
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    Seaseme polycounter lvl 8
    Talbot wrote: »
    AshleyTayles: Wouldn't that screw up the edges of the kickplate also?

    Vig: I've been following the eat3d old pillar and nextgen texturing tutorials so I don't really know how to do specular maps. Can you point me in the right direction?

    Also, how do I add detal to my normal map that is in the highpoly?

    Thanks!

    To blend two normal maps just take them into Photoshop, put whichever one you want to blend (usually the more detailed one..) on the higher layer and set it to overlay, then you can double click it, go into blending options and check OFF the Blue channel for the overlay, then you can control which details get added to pieces with a simple mask, also try adjusting the fill to tone down the normal map on top if you need.
  • konstruct
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    konstruct polycounter lvl 18
    I`d say you have a little ways to go before you understand normal maps- firstly I`d look at your rgb channels to develop a better understanding of whats going on.

    r.128 b.128 g.255 is flat, I.E wont recieve any special lighting info, which is what most of your model is. the dent could be copy/pasted all over your door w/o any shading issues. and for that matter completely pained out with the color : r.128 b.128 g.255

    if you want to make a bunch or normal map noise/gunk/dirt whatever you`ll have to turn a bump map into a normal map using either crazy bump, or nvidias photoshop plugin.

    when you add it to your normal map, via a photoshop overlay-

    the next step isn't neccisacry, but it can help if the detail normal overlay is affecting your mesh baked normals too much.



    on the detail normal layer- make the transfer mode "overlay" drop into your levels window. switch the channel to blue, and change the output level to 0,128.

    Edit- i like seasame`s way better :P
  • Talbot
    Thanks for the information.

    konstruct, this is what I is what I was looking for:
    "if you want to make a bunch or normal map noise/gunk/dirt whatever you`ll have to turn a bump map into a normal map using either crazy bump, or nvidias photoshop plugin."

    Thanks

    Still need help with the spec map though. :P
  • konstruct
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    konstruct polycounter lvl 18
    Talbot wrote: »

    Still need help with the spec map though. :P

    trial and error.
  • Talbot
    Update.

    Sort of a step back... but whatever. I would say just look at the body of the door and the kickplate.

    I didn't make a spec map yet.

    Render:
    asdfe-1.png

    Normal Map:
    asdff2-1.png
  • AshleyTayles
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    AshleyTayles polycounter lvl 9
    "AshleyTayles: Wouldn't that screw up the edges of the kickplate also?"

    Try it and find out.
  • Talbot
    Capture-3.png

    Done for the night... thought I would post what I have. I fixed the dimensions to make it taller. Also added more detail in the window frame.
  • Talbot
    Another Update.

    Normal Map:
    Capture4.png

    Render w/o Diffuse:
    Capture2-1.png

    Render w/ Diffuse:
    Capture1.png

    I'll start learning about Specular Maps. :P
  • EarthQuake
    I'de get rid of the noise, esp on the metal. Metal is generally pretty smooth.
  • Talbot
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    I'de get rid of the noise, esp on the metal. Metal is generally pretty smooth.

    It the noise isn't on the metal. :)
  • Joseph Silverman
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    Joseph Silverman polycounter lvl 17
    Talbot wrote: »
    It the noise isn't on the metal. :)



    What material is the red surface of the door?
  • Talbot
    The red surface is wood. I used the noise to add texture to the wood parts (yellow and red).
  • killingpeople
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    killingpeople polycounter lvl 18
    That giant bump at the bottom of the door isn't flying in my mind. I'd make it smaller, that dent is just too huge... It looks like it was shot with a potato gun or something heavy like that, I mean sometimes fact is stranger than fiction, but still. if that was from repeated hits, I'd imagine it'd be less smooth and even, it looks like it was created with one hard knock. I'd also consider making that metal piece peeling back or falling off a bit with a hit like that, especially if it's attached to wood.
  • killingpeople
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    killingpeople polycounter lvl 18
    EQ could be calling your drippy grime noise.
  • Talbot
    take away the drippy grime? why?
  • Talbot
    Anyone want to point me in the right direction on how to make a window like this?
    0000004326.jpg

    Like that only with almost no transparency.
  • Talbot
    What do people think about the dimensions in this? Ignore the texture stretching...

    asdfe-4.png
  • Gannon
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    Gannon interpolator
    To me it feels like the door handle if you will, is a little high. bring it down a little more instead of being perfectly in the middle.

    Keep workin on that texture some more it feels really wet at the moment and the big dent on the bottom feels off to me.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 19
    post a screenshot with your reference guy in there, you are working with a reference guy right?
  • Talbot
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 19
    if you have a character in your scene it gives you an easy way to measure things. I'd prefer a human model to a player size rectangle because it gives you easy visual clues to the correct scale: this doorknob is the size of a grapefruit and is falling mid-thigh... stuff like that.
  • Lonewolf
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    Lonewolf polycounter lvl 18
    Talbot wrote: »
    What do people think about the dimensions in this? Ignore the texture stretching...

    asdfe-4.png

    thats alot better

    you need to pay better attention for details

    dont rush with your work, that door is a nice practice and pretty easy one to make very close to the ref

    your proportion at first wasnt good, you should have stopped there

    and fix it

    u can roughly estimate measurements by comparing one part to another on the same ref
    (it help me alot)

    for example the bottom metal plate on the ref is about 1/13 of all the door
    in your model its about 1/4 (i know its a streached texture but im just gave it as example)

    dont skip small parts that may seems unimportant (like a key hole)

    those small things makes a big difference at the end :)
  • Mark Dygert
    Yep that scale looks a lot more realistic. The handle/bumper thing seems a bit thin now? Keep working on the materials, the spec is a bit weird and the diffuse is coming along nicely, I like the added grime to the kick plate. it looks like you reduced the dent also, good move =)
  • Talbot
    Ok, here is a new highpoly that I recreated from scratch. The colors are just temporary. Let me know what you think.

    asdffff-1.png
  • timwiese
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    timwiese polycounter lvl 9
    What was the purpose of the new high poly? it doesn't seem like its going to be doing to much work anyway. If you really want to get the most out of this high poly take it into zbrush and scuff it up.

    You should just go and work on your specular at this point the only problems with the normals were fixed when you lessened the dent.
  • Talbot
    I originally made a highpoly and then took it into zbrush. Made the scuffs and everything and accidentally saved over the 3ds max file. So then when I went back to the highpoly to change the dimensions to bake a new set of maps... the highpoly was too highpoly (6 million poly) to work with. So then I remade it with the dimensions of the lowpoly I post previously. Do you understand now?
  • Talbot
    Update.
    Made a dent in texturing and put it into UE3.

    asdfe-10.png
  • Talbot
  • Mark Dygert
    Oh yea, really taking shape now. Nice crap on the window! Probably work on the spec and call it done, and move onto another piece?
  • Talbot
    Thanks. :) You did help me a lot!

    This door is planned for great things don't you worry. :D
  • snake85027
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    snake85027 polycounter lvl 18
    You should try this set up for the window to get a nice reflection. This goes into your specular channels in unreal materials. Dont forget to have a mask so it goes over only the window itself. And maybe the metal piece at the door as well. Also where it says GRADIENT, I usually just make a blue and gray gradient texture in photoshop for this.
    SETUP-2.jpg
  • Talbot
    Is there a tutorial you know of on how to set the spec map up? I tried but failed horribly.
  • snake85027
  • Talbot
    Ok so I experimented with what you showed me. And this is what I came up with.

    asdff2-3.png?t=1235094924

    asdffdsafasfd-4.png?t=1235094942
  • snake85027
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    snake85027 polycounter lvl 18
    aw, nice, can you post your spec map? You should do the Reflection Vector as well and get that window reflecting, its a nice touch when its adding, especially when you walk toward or away from it.

    On the specular map you need to have the edge highlights on there and try to stay away from painting the specular information into the diffuse, now that I try and look at your normal map it seems that you didn't do high poly of the blinds. So maybe you should do that and try match the diffuse and put it into your normal map.

    Hopefully that made sense. ha
  • Talbot
    I just added more of the grunge to the Spec.

    BSP-2.png

    Capture-6.png

    Can anyone help me with the jagged edges that seem to be on the UV seams?
  • 00Zero
    put some bloom on that shit. lol jk. looks a lot better than last time i saw it. the jaggies are just form the edges of your models. I never got antialiasing to work in the unreal editor. I even tried over riding the settings through my video card settings and it still didnt work.

    the spec on the red parts of the door could be brightened up a little. unreal makes it darker since it clamps the color range or something like that.

    also, would be cool if you added a couple of leaks to the spec map. for example, if water leaked down the door it would be slightly brighter on the spec. that would make it look a bit more interesting. not too much though.
  • A.Kincade
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    A.Kincade polycounter lvl 9
    Your making really good progress on this piece. All the critiques have been spot on so far. I was looking at your reference and saw some things you could add to help your scene. You could add spray paint or old worn out stickers to help add something extra to your diffuse. Another thing would be to make the hinges for the top of the doors like in the reference. I believe that will help give your object a better profile and make it look more functional. Otherwise well done so far. Keep up the good work.
  • snake85027
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    snake85027 polycounter lvl 18
    For your spec you might want to turn down the brightness of the door handle and the square metal at the bottom and then go and paint the edges almost white, it has to be really white and intense to get it to show up well, but i guess that is what the CONSTANT NODE is for but just a suggestion.

    I can't even see where the framing is for the window in your spec, lets paint some white in there!
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