Let's buy stuff

pior · Nov 2008

Hi all!

I am about to get myself a secondary computer. My first drive was to get a laptop, but I realize that my needs might make the choice a little trickier than expected. So I thought I'd better ask for advice here. I am looking for a solution fitting the following :

- Small form factor.
It is intended to be somewhat of a bedside/couch computer. Hence the more portable the better (but not necessarily a laptop).

- Video output.
I want to hook this up to a video projector for movies and emulated games. This rules out the newest Macbooks since it seems like they have no DVI output.
I also want to hook this up to a Cintiq12WX. Meaning that I need the thing to be able to output 720p for the proj (1280*720) but also a native 1280*800.

- Power and usage
I don't intend to do much threedee on this secondary station, and it also seems like since it's being software rendered, Zbrush can run on anything anyways. Hence 3d power is not the main thing. My main use would be Photoshop and maybe even more often alternative programs like SAI and Artrage - on top of the multimedia uses mentioned above

- OS
I don't really have a preference between Win and Mac. I just want to avoid Vista since I have seen way too many issues regarding its handling of video acceleration (black screen switch)

- Price
Around 1000USD

So far I found the following. But maybe I am missing some important specs so let me know

Dell Studio Hybrid
Dell Studio 15
Mac Mini
older Macbook pro

Maybe a tablet PC could fit aswell but I really don't know anything about them...

Suggestions welcome!

Rick Stirling · Nov 2008

I loved my mac mini (power PC one)- tiny and ultra quiet. I only got rid of it because after 2 or 3 years tech had moved on and and I needed more power.

PfhorRunner · Nov 2008

http://www.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=11854

The Asus Eee Box, small, XP, nice range of outputs...

Rick Stirling · Nov 2008

And I *LOVE* my Asus EEE PC Laptop.

EmAr · Nov 2008

I am pretty happy with my EEE PC Laptop too. I actually bought it on Rick's advice here. It's very easy to carry around.

It runs most MAME roms well(Street Fighter 2 for example). It actually runs Quake 3 with good settings at good frame rates without any kind of overclocking.

The resolution on the smaller-screen-version may be too low for Photoshop (actually, the LCD in the that version supports 800*600 resolution by some kind of vertical scrolling desktop but not very useful IMO). If you want to use higher resolutions using the VGA output and an external monitor that is possible too.

Oh, and the SSD does not work very well as a Photoshop scratch disk from my experience but I did not work on that problem much. There should be a way using an SD card or a USB drive or something like that probably.

rul119 · Nov 2008

I use the previous macbook pro, and runs zbrush 3 and photoshop very good, is a great machine and there are some cheap units now, apart from leopard you can use xp or vista with bootcamp if you like to work on windows

stimpack · Nov 2008

I bought a voodoo envy a year or so ago. The thing is a steaming pile of shit. DONT buy from them, absolutely horrible machine, and even worse customer service. I dont even use the thing anymore. Im sticking with alienware. Ive had a desktop from them for almost 4 years, and it still runs like a champ! ofcource I upgrade it as technology demands it

J Randall · Nov 2008

Find out the specifications you want and price check ebay, if its a power seller you may have to wait for shipping but I have found some great deals on computer components in the past.

James Edwards · Nov 2008

I'm holding out for a tablet pc. There's got to be a decent one coming out soon. I can feel it!

notman · Nov 2008

I'd avoid the Mac mini based on what I've heard. It's sort of rumored that something new may be on the horizon (just something to think about).

thomasp · Nov 2008

that sort of mini rumour has been going since 2007. anyway, the mini comes with a really slow harddrive, zbrush might not take kindly to that

it's also reported to freeze under constant heavy load, not that i experienced that myself.

as for the macbook - old or new - you'd need an adaptor from mini-dvi or mini-displayport to connect to anything. shouldn't be a problem to hook up to DVI even on the new ones really.
let me just recommend OSX for multiscreen/multires usage. that stuff just works out of the box. no nasty icon-rearrangement and fiddling in the display properties.

paint tools on the other hand... on the mac there's some sort of delay i can feel. i dunno if it's in the software or the intuos3 (dislike), but my much slower PC with the intuos2 feels way more fluid for painting in artrage or photoshop than the mac (running all intel/UB versions, too).

pior · Nov 2008

Dang I never heard of that Eee box before (knew about the netbooks but not that). Tempting, and crazy cheap too!

Thomas I tried an older gen Macbook Pro for a few minutes the other day (metal case) and it had a fullsize DVI plug on it's right side. I am not familiar with the mini dvi format so I did not spot it on the newer Macbooks but maybe it's here?

Paint tools are super important obviously, so any extra lag would likely piss me off haha!

What about a mac mini running XP? Would that work?
What is the best way to get used Mac hardware? On the actual Apple website or somewhere else?

Oh BTW the unit needs to support bluetooth since I want to use a wireless KB. (have the mini metal KB from Apple, even if I hate the alt and ctrl placement, just stupid)

Thanks for all - any extra suggestion welcome.

thomasp · Nov 2008

hey pior, this is the adapter for the old (white) macbooks, like i got one - http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9321G/B

and this one is apparently for the new "unibody" ones - http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA3Ng&mco=MjE2Nzk5MA

so connecting a DVI beamer would be no sweat at all no matter which model you chose. bluetooth is there on the macbooks, not sure about the mini. and running XP should work in any case. if you're shooting for a used machine, make sure you get a recent one. first revision apple stuff seems flakey, also in the mini and white macbook, they use an intel video chipset, the old one GMA9something is apparently problematic. later models use the X3100 which i found totally usable for light 3D and all sorts 2D.

apple seems to offer refurbished machines btw.

EarthQuake · Nov 2008

Man if you just want something small, get yourself a shuttle case. You can pack nearly the same amount of power into one as a high-end desktop, and have all the benifits that you wouldn't get with a laptop(paying out the ass to get a good screen, video card, etc and never being able to replace those components).

Maybe something like this?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101066
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150247
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227298
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148335
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106263

Under $800, all of that *should* run on the 400w PSU in the case. Would be a system fast enough to run mud/zbrush very well too.

sonic · Nov 2008

I'd recommend the MSI Wind desktop over the EEE one. I've had a lot of trouble with Asus EEE stuff lately.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167032

Just throw in a HDD/RAM and you're good to go.

EarthQuake · Nov 2008

oh man thats a cute little bugger, too bad it only has VGA and no DVI.

pior · Nov 2008

Woah thanks alot for the info you all.

I got a 360 coming soon so that should take care of the video projection and gaming needs (SFIV yeeeeah!)
Also I keep thinking I might actually enjoy a laptop to take with me for lifedrawing sessions.

Thomas how does that adaptor perform? Reading this rating page is kinda freaky
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA3Ng&mco=MjE2Nzk5MA
since it seems like something important is missing from it. However I know nothing about the differnet DVI signals hence cannot tell if this would affect me or not.

Also I would love to hear user's experience on how these lappies perform in photoshop. Would it be worth getting a Macbook pro over a regular macbook?

Thanks for the great links EQ, I think I'll get one of these later down the road when it's time to get a new main computer. Mine is huge and loud hehe.

Also any tablet pc recommendation is welcome, I really don't know where to hunt these as it seems this is all very niche still.

Thanks!

Emil Mujanovic · Nov 2008

Awesome thread, I've really needed to look into something really similar to this as well.
Those shuttle cases are awesome!

-caseyjones

rul119 · Nov 2008

if you want to draw, the problem with the macbook is the screen, not very quality, in the other hand the macbook pro screen (15" LED) is the best screen i´ve ever used, even better than sony vaio screens for my taste

maybe this comparision is helpful to you

http://gizmodo.com/5063492/macbook-and-macbook-pro-dual-review

my macbook pro performs great with photosop and zbrush, both are very well optimized for osx

Toomas · Nov 2008

Yea the screen is MacBooks biggest weakness, i just bought one and its sexy sexy little machine but the viewing angle on this lcd panel is poor and it has stuck pixel (cant smudge it cause of the glass cover either). Air is supposed to have far superior panels.

thomasp · Nov 2008

pior wrote: »

Thomas how does that adaptor perform? Reading this rating page is kinda freaky
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA3Ng&mco=MjE2Nzk5MA
since it seems like something important is missing from it. However I know nothing about the differnet DVI signals hence cannot tell if this would affect me or not.

i use the mini-dvi one.

works fine for me. i have mine hooked up to a dell 24" screen without troubles. also sometimes use it on the telly with that adaptor.

a laptop in a lifedrawing session only get's in the way imo. been there done that. you'll spend time setting it up and operating the software while the others get to draw!

Let's buy stuff

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