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New California law narrows overtime regulations for skilled tech workers

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http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/10/new-california.html



New California law narrows overtime regulations for skilled tech workers
6:33 PM, October 1, 2008
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger

Tech companies glum about their sagging stock prices can take cheer in
a bill Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has signed into law that aims to
make it easier for employers to determine which of their workers are
exempt from overtime compensation.

A number of technology companies, including Sony, Electronic Arts,
Apple and Cisco Systems, had been tripped up by California's overtime
regulations, which stated that highly skilled technology workers
earning less than $75,000 a year, or $36 an hour, were entitled to OT.

Sounds simple, but the devil is in the math. Companies have contended
that as long as the worker's annual salary was at least $75,000, he or
she was exempt from overtime pay, regardless of how many hours the
employee clocked. Labor advocates have countered that the number of
hours worked matters very much: They argued that the regulation in
fact required companies to pay $36 or more for each hour worked, or
else the employee was due OT.

As a result, programmers, engineers and graphic artists have filed
lawsuits in recent years demanding overtime compensation for working
long hours without extra pay. Some, including Sony and EA, have paid
tens of millions of dollars to settle those cases.

The new law, which Schwarzenegger signed late Tuesday and took effect
immediately, eliminates the hourly calculation. It says employers can
instead meet the overtime exemption by paying their workers a gross
salary of at least $6,250 a month. That equals the same $75,000 a
year, but it means that high-tech companies now don't have to worry
about keeping track of the number of hours their employees work, said
Carol Freeman, a partner at law firm Morgan, Lewis & Bockius in Palo
Alto. "There was an ambiguity in the law, and this clarifies that,"
Freeman said.

Labor advocates said the law, which applies only to highly skilled
tech workers, opens the door for companies to force employees to work
unlimited hours without paying them anything extra.

"Instead of hiring another worker, companies can just save money by
making their existing workers clock twice as many hours," said Caitlin
Vega, legislative advocate for the California Labor Federation.

The new law, however, does not clarify one controversial point about
the overtime exemption: whether extra compensation such as stock
options, bonus or profit-sharing count toward the $75,000 annual
figure. So if you're a highly skilled tech worker making $60,000 a
year in salary and $20,000 more in extra compensation that's paid out
in equal monthly installments, who knows if you're due overtime?

Replies

  • Cojax
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    Cojax polycounter lvl 10
    All you Cali workers best be demanding your raises ;)
  • Brettzies
    This reeks of trouble. Game industry may be notorious for no OT pay, but film vfx and anim has been grounded and based in it. If they no longer have to adhere to that law...well, could be in for big changes. Aside from the obvious caring about your craft, people will have no incentive to work. 50hr and 60hr(6 day) weeks are so common in film but no one complains much because you get paid well.

    I just don't see how you can all of a sudden wipe out that system and expect people to just work? Either you're going to have a slew of pissed off artists or companies are going to have to get super efficient and go back to 40hr weeks. 40hr weeks sounds like utopia to me though.

    I really wonder how some of the big vfx studios are going to handle this.
  • aesir
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    aesir polycounter lvl 13
    they'll handle this by fucking us in the ass.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    lol, the more threads like this i read, the more i believe that americans are idiots when it comes to running an office.

    if you're contracted 40 hours a week, and a certain amount of pay for that time. work your 40 hours, then fuck off home and don't come back until next week.

    simple.

    if your boss says "you have to achieve this target within your 40 hours", and it isn't realistic, point it out. you have a right to do so, and they have no right to force extra hours because a target isn't met.

    ie: if they ask you to complete a job, on your own, within 40 hours, that would normally take 3 people that amount of time. then your boss is an idiot, and any court on the planet would back you.
    if he asks you to perform a task which could easily be completed by one man in that time period, and it takes you 60 hours, it's time to reevaluate your skillset, because this one isn't your forte.

    my boss recently asked me to stay late on a thursday night, to finish up a task. knowing i had an hour and a half train ride home, and that the next train after he wanted me to finish, would mean i got home after midnight. i asked him if he felt that was reasonable. he said yes (of course). so i spun it on him; do you believe you could accomplish that task on your own in the same amount of time?

    his answer was "i don't have to". kind of ambiguous, so i pushed the point, "if you think you can, then will you help me?".
    "i have to get home to my wife"
    "i have to get home to my girlfriend"
    "are you going to do it or not?"
    "no"
    "you're refusing a reasonable request?"
    "no, i'm refusing an unreasonable request from a line manager who is unwilling to offer all available support to his staff, as per his responsibility".

    i was brought into a disciplinary hearing for it, my area manager pointed out the importance of hitting targets, i pointed out the importance of the following:

    setting areas of responsibility
    setting areas of accountability
    setting "SMART" goals.

    a SMART goal is a stupid anagram i learned years ago:
    Specific
    Measurable
    Achievable
    Realistic
    Timed

    basically meaning: set your goals, both long and short term, to be realistically achievable by any given time, within a specific time period. if it's not realistic, or achievable, then you either need to hire new staff, or reassess your goals.

    i'm now a manager for the same company. and the manager who wrote me up for my actions, was relocated.


    moral: work to live, don't live to work. if you aren't being paid for your time, then don't give them the time.

    oh, and i also work a second job at a shitty studio in milton keynes. so while i may not have the artistic experience or skills of you guys. if anyone wants a better manager, hook me up xD
  • Brettzies
    lol, the more threads like this i read, the more i believe that americans are idiots when it comes to running an office.
    Being an American, I'll take that with a grain of salt, because mostly I agree. Our society here is largely about work, work, and yet again more work. 40hr weeks are almost a thing of the past even though it was determined some time ago(years) that sustained work over that is no more efficient then just doing 40hr weeks. 2week vacation? most of the rest of the world is 4+ I believe. Maybe it's all those centuries of experience ; ) In other words, we don't know how to live, just to work.

    The problem isn't the workers though, or just doing as you did. Most people are too scared to take a stand like that, or are not in a position to stir up the hornets nest and lose their job. On top of that you have peer pressure, everyone else is staying-why aren't you?, and the fact that there are 1000s of qualified people lined to and just looking for a break in the industry. Makes for a very unyielding situation. If you can risk it great, if you can't, most people will shut up and just take it till they can find a better gig.

    In terms of running an office, I do think producers can be very out of touch with actual time it takes to do something and time wasted. Mostly they just panic and throw more hours at a project, that will solve it. The equation is not so simple, but it is the most common solution. It works to some degree because more things can be approved. I've never been a fan of pre-emtive overtime.

    I love your example with the manager though. "Can you stay and help me?" "No I have to go home to my wife." Awesome.

    OT-pay is the great equalizer though. It kind of negates all arguments. Even when you are getting over worked, at least you are getting paid really well. Then it just becomes a personal choice as to whether you want to keep working there.
  • Jeremy Wright
    Brettzies wrote: »
    Our society here is largely about work, work, and yet again more work.

    A large problem at my job is that alot of that is wasted work, due to poor management.

    We have comp time at my office (we haven't had much need for it with things being so slow), but even so I make it a point to be out of there at 5, unless it is something life-or-death or just a little thing that I need to finish.
  • foreverendering
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    foreverendering polycounter lvl 12
    Most people are too scared to take a stand like that, or are not in a position to stir up the hornets nest and lose their job.

    Exactly. Especially people that are supporting a family, have a mortgage, etc..
    On top of that you have peer pressure, everyone else is staying-why aren't you?

    Yup. A lot of studios in this industry have developed a culture where spending more and more time at the office is looked upon favorably.
    there are 1000s of qualified people lined to and just looking for a break in the industry. Makes for a very unyielding situation.

    Also have to agree with this - an employee could theoretically make a stand based on principle, but there are plenty of people outside the door who would be more than happy to take their place and do the OT without complaint.
  • aesir
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    aesir polycounter lvl 13
    gir, I've heard of people doing that and getting fired... it doesn't always end well. However, nice job!
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    i know of people who've done it and gotten fired too. but at the end of the day the ball needs to start rolling somewhere.

    i'm of the very firm opinion that anyone who works themselves into the ground, without actually being paid for it is a fool, and the "i have a family to support" argument, is made void by the fact that you're earning no extra money to support them by doing the extra hours, and you're actually taking AWAY from the family, valuable time spent with the wife, and kids.

    work smart, not hard. much like in a position of management (i work in sales management, and i DO know what it's like not to hit targets etc), i basically sit in the back office, and hit F5 and watch the money come in now. not because i'm lazy, but because i promote self management in my staff.

    the SMART thing works, and it works well. you discuss all your goals as a group, so the management know where the team is at in terms of skill and how long they think it will take. it also means that rather than having a manager dictate a goal to their team, the team effectively dictates it to themselves. and because of that they are not only more motivated to hit that target (knowing they can), and have no room to argue if they DON'T hit the target.

    that's not to say management don't have any involvement in the process. part of making the targets realistic is to set them against company requirements. and that's where managers are accountable.

    as a manager i'm accountable for making sure our sales targets are hit accross all boards, and that my team are motivated, happy, and safe in their workplace.

    how do i achieve this? every saturday, after work, i invite my staff to attend a team meeting, and then go for beers. i don't pay for the beer, they do that themselves, i don't even make them come to the meeting. they are on the understanding that if they don't attend, and some targets are set that they don't agree with, they can't argue about it.
    if my area manager calls me and says "you need to do an extra x of this today", that's when i'll get involved myself. i can already account for my team and their responsibilities (note, i'm accountable, they are responsible). i already know that they won't have time to do the extra, because they've already self managed themselves to hitting the targets needed. that means someone needs to magically pull some extra results out, and that isn't going to happen. so i'd be more happy doing it myself, and letting them hit the baseline target, than asking them to do it, and having the fundamentals fail.

    the only time my staff do overtime is at christmas, and it's their choice, as i always have enough temps to fill the hours, to them the commission and bonus they earn is enough to cover the extra hours.

    my own contract states i have to put 38.5 hours per week into the business.

    an interesting issue came up with management conference calls, i was asked to join a conference call at 9pm one evening, i said sure. it took 2 hours, so i asked when i could take those two hours (i'm salaried, no overtime for meeee). the answer was "you can't". so i told my area manager, next time he wanted a conference call, he could come to my store and hold it there, during the day. and now my back office is his back office >_> some things don't work out >_<


    i guess, what i did took some balls, and at the time all i really had to lose was my appartment. but i felt it had to be done, as i'd rather lose a job and find a new one, than work in a place where effectively i'm not respected. if any of my staff asked me for help, i'd do it, it's the responsible thing to do. and i know i can do it, because i've worked up through sales.

    working in the IT, games design business, if your boss doesn't know what he's doing enough to help you, then you need to find a new fucking boss asap.

    /end rant.


    oh, side note: year on year, we are 122% ahead of sales, which is great. but there are 2 areas where we're not hitting our targets, and i DO get my ass chewed over it, on an almost daily basis. but i know nothing can be done to change it unless i'm allowed to hire new staff. and i'd rather not have my team demotivated, or overworked, just to create some figures.
  • Vailias
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    Vailias polycounter lvl 16
    GIr: We don't usually have employment contracts unless its at the CEO level or in certain industries dealing with sensitive data, or you're a paid personality, like in radio.

    Everyone else is most often an "at-will" employee, depending on state. Meaning you can quit at any time with or without reason, and/or you may be let go/fired/dismissed at any time with or without reason. Often this is still built into employment contracts, there is simply a severance package and or timed non-compete agreement in addition.

    Edit: HEHE 38.5 hours. I remember that number. It was what I was required to average under at one job to maintain "part-time" status so they didn't have to pay benefits,etc etc.
    err.. make that 29.5. Sorry, its been a long 3 days.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    wait, you don't have employement contracts in the states? holy crap. even a christmas temp on 12 hours a week has a contract here :o
  • Rob Galanakis
    Labor here is fucked up, and lots of it has to do with the workers- they don't speak up, they don't stand up for themselves, and they shoot themselves in the foot.

    Speak up- if something is wrong, say something. Bring it up with someone you trust, if it is outside of your realm of influence, find out more about the situation before it gets out of hand. Voice concerns. And if things become a problem, you need to stand up.

    Stand up- yes you can be fired for this. But you know what? I can't think of anyone I know who has gotten fired or laid off from a job that was taking advantage of them that didn't end up in a better place. That includes people with a family. One person standing up can inspire others to do the same. It is hard to be the first, but you have to do what you know is right, because it will make you much happier- being miserable and safe, I don't think even slaves enjoyed that.

    Stop digging a hole for yourself- Why are you working 60 hours a week, when no one is asking? Why are you under-estimating how long something will take, so you can pretend you completed it in half the time it actually took? This doesn't help you or your co-workers- it creates an artificial metric that you cannot and should not sustain and puts undue pressure on your coworkers. If this sort of crap gains you a raise or promotion, it has come at the cost of your coworkers and friends, not just yourself. Once in a while I need to work some overtime, it is the nature of technical stuff- lots of things break at the same time and you need to stay extra. But I never feel obligated to stay later than my boss, and the only reason I do work at home is so I can release it publicly.

    Yes, management, and management alone, is responsible for sustained overtime. But we know this and don't do a goddamn thing about it. We know it and then not just don't speak up about the problem, but actually feed into it.

    We are the ones that make games. We hold the power, but we are so afraid to use it. For many of us, our jobs cannot be outsourced (yet) and it is not easy to replace a veteran on a team where so much knowledge is unwritten and accumulated. With this OT law or not, if a company is abusing its workers, you stand up- and if it isn't fixed, you leave. If more people did this, companies would think twice before abusing their workers.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    exactly, it's a snowball effect.

    if one person is unhappy with something at work, chances are others are unhappy about it too.

    you might be the first, and you might be fired, and you might have to look for a new job. but you never know, the knock on effects of your actions might mean others get to work in better conditions, and then the new company you work for will see the old as a rolemodel.

    happy workers = productive workers.
  • SHEPEIRO
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    SHEPEIRO polycounter lvl 13
    Gir- where do you work ;-) i totally fucking agree
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    the studio i work at is deepred, which really is the epitome of sucking a big fat one.

    saleswise, and i should probably expect a kick in for this, i work for Phones 4 u.
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    For managers, 'Hours Worked' is easier to quantify than quality.

    Thankfully there's many companies that are completely honest and upfront with your overtime workload.


    thechaosengine.com seems to have good information on a per company basis as well.
  • Archanex
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    Archanex polycounter lvl 16
    50hr and 60hr(6 day) weeks are so common in film but no one complains much because you get paid well.

    HAH! I Hear plenty of bitching about overtime at my job
  • Brettzies
    Archanex wrote: »
    HAH! I Hear plenty of bitching about overtime at my job
    Well, no one likes to work on the weekends even when paid. I guess what I meant was you don't get the "they aren't paying us but forcing us to work" type of complaints. You get more of the, "I'm just plain tired of doing all these hours," type of complaints. The worst OT I've done was at RH, but....I have to say the money was very very good...so, it's a give take type of thing. But without the money..eh, I'm not sure anyone would do it or put up with it.
  • Diego Schlong
    Hi I used to be a polycounter a long time ago, but stopped posting around 3-4 years ago, still browse the boards when I'm not up to my eyeballs in booze or work.


    Anyways, I think this is a better model than the "they love thier job they will do anything" model we have now, and i for one would love to see this implemented across the world.

    It would stop the managers I've worked with expecting 20 hours overtime, because they arent doing their job properly.

    Gir, I've worked in deep red , the whole character dept left because Clive and the rest of the management/muppet team were clueless and expected you to work overtime, no matter what you said to them.

    Perhaps they have changed since, but over the years I've noticed the same pattern through out the UK industry with the bottom feeder devs.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    you know, the first time i met clive, i was selling him a TV at currys haha. that was years ago. i think we got onto the topic of games design because he wanted a tv that could display from a pc.

    anyway, he seemed like an ok guy and i sent over some of my work, which he shot down. but being the only studio i knew of locally, i kept trying until around january he said he could take me on.

    i made it abundantly clear to him, though, that i would only be working certain hours on certain days though, due to my management commitments, and the fact that if this job were to fall through, not only would i have taken a huge paycut to work for a backwater studio, but he would have left me high and dry.
  • stimpack
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    stimpack polycounter lvl 10
    I agree 100%. Work to live, not live to work. When i phone interviewed with my recent company, the first question I asked was about overtime. I made sure I was just working my 8-5, so I could have a life outside of work!
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    Makes me wonder if the games industry will become unionized due to bad management.

    For the most part, as an industry we're expected to work 60+ hours a week, with zero compensation, and considered to be HIGHLY replaceable.

    :S

    Luckily there are still a few companies out there that don't expect overtime.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    here's a question then:

    do the big companies (i say big, i'm sure there are others equally as big) such as rockstar, epic, or ID, ask for the same thing from their employees? because i would doubt it. on the basis that i've yet to play a game by any of them that feels particularly rushed, or unpolished. like they've put a lot of love into their games, and the only way to achieve it is to ensure their staff love what they are doing too.

    maybe if more companies followed such an example, and said to producers "you'll get your game when it's actually ready to be played, and not when it's ready to be sold", you'd be on a win win?

    take assassins creed, the force unleashed, and other titles that by rights, should have been huge multi-sequal franchises, that didn't just survive on the first months sales because of bad reviews, or people saying "you know, the first hour was awesome, but then it was like playing the same first hour over and over, and not in a good way."
  • Mark Dygert
    "But I'm a guy with a family to support."
    It's for those reasons you should actually fight the mismanagement.
    - Why have a mortgage if you're not going to have a home?
    - Why have a family if you're never going to be there?

    "I'm not going to say anything, I'm just going to find a new job and leave."
    Personally I'd say something long before that, but that's just me. Finding a new job and starting over sucks. Theres a chance it could actually look better and end up worse. If I can make my current job into the job I've always wanted and balance it with my personal life I will.

    It really depends on you and your situation, for me personally, I would rather quit then be cowed into doing something I felt was going hurt my family and me not being there would be hurting them. My wife needs a break, my daughter needs a fresh playmate and I need some time to unwind and relax. I feel like I have a lot of opportunities open to me and I don't need this job. Your situation might be reversed, not really sure.

    But as long as an employer thinks they have you over a barrel they'll probably keep you there. It might be a pretty bawlsy bluff but having the attitude of "you need me more then I need you" but it might help shift the balance of power in your favor. If you're tired of getting hit, then maybe its time to stop being a punching bag...

    "I really don't want to bring it up, it would go against my passive aggressive nature"
    If you're working long hours and smiling thru gritted teeth, they might not think anything is wrong. It might not hurt to sit down with them, and go over some post mortem type issues make sure to point out that angry disgruntled employees aren't going to do the type of work they want and neither are new inexperienced workers. They can try to wring blood from both but they'll just get a pulpy mess. If they want to succeed, they need to give the workers the things they need to succeed. If they come back with an attitude of well we don't care just get the work done, then its time to leave, and encourage others to do so. It's a horrible place to work, but make sure you're not just projecting that on them, hear it straight from them first.
  • ChrisG
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    ChrisG polycounter lvl 10

    oh, and i also work a second job at a shitty studio in milton keynes. so while i may not have the artistic experience or skills of you guys. if anyone wants a better manager, hook me up xD

    no fecking way? milton keynes uk? if so I am only a ten minute train ride (one after bletchley) away, ahh what are the odds
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    haha yeah there's a few polycounters near me apparently, which stop are you? if it's after bletchley it must be like, leighton buzzard, or cheddington?

    i know mightypea lives about a 45 min train ride from me, same with spacemonkey, and mop.
  • stimpack
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    stimpack polycounter lvl 10
    I see people saying that "there is a line of people waiting for the opportunity and will work nonestop" The truth in that is, yes there is a line, but the quality of that line is very low. There are TONS of little graduates, and self learners out there just itching for the chance to get a job somewhere, and they apply lke crazy, but they are still unemployeed b/c they dont meet the standards of the studios. Bottom line is, there might be a few out there that can replace, but if your work is bullet proof and you prove your an essential part of the team, that makes you much harder to replace. By all rights, a studio should fight to keep you there. If you feel its the other way around, it might be time to find a place that appreciates your efforts and enjoys your talents.
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    Jeremy Lindstrom polycounter lvl 17
    Welp, the way the game industry's been lately and and apparently 'is' with the high turnover and closings, 3d artists seem to be a risky career last stat I saw was like a game artist changes companies every 2-5 years. I guess it's great if you are willing to 'move' cross country our out of country for the jobs and you don't have kids/family, but I've only been doing this for a few months and watching all this stuff happen, makes me wonder if I should go back to the stability of IT and do this for fun. O_o
  • ChrisG
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    ChrisG polycounter lvl 10
    haha yeah there's a few polycounters near me apparently, which stop are you? if it's after bletchley it must be like, leighton buzzard, or cheddington?

    i know mightypea lives about a 45 min train ride from me, same with spacemonkey, and mop.
    yer blud totaly im repping the leighton massive!!! opps sorry mazzive
    actualy I live in Linslade the better part- well slightly haha.

    You cant miss me on the train i will be the tallest one there (which i get on to go to mk college- bletchley campus), well over 6"5 bush beard and floppy hair, with lots of leather braceelts rocking the hippy look!

    I know some ohers are in london but thats about it, I know there is a guy on the crazybump forums from milton keynes...but if you ever see me say hi:)

    sorry wayyyyyyyyy off topic.

    Being in the last year of college I have to make a choice whether to commit to a uni course. But many of the UK courses sound pretty basic and I could be more advanced (and im terrible hahaha), so would it really be worth all that money and come out the otherside into a market oversaturated? hmm I will have to make my mind up sharpish.
  • stimpack
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    stimpack polycounter lvl 10
    I wouldnt say the market is oversaturated. If your a badass, there is always room. Almost every company has "if the position isnt listed please still apply" b/c they are always on the look out for talent. I think its just a highly competitive field. Gota earn your spot so to speak. I know alot of people that came out of school and were dumbfounded when noone just handed them a job b/c they had a piece of paper saying they were educated.
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    Jeremy Lindstrom polycounter lvl 17
    And then after the project they'll let ya go.. :D
  • stimpack
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    stimpack polycounter lvl 10
    haha, it goes both ways. You can blacklist a company just as easy as they can you =) If a comp dumped me unfairly i would never work for them, or anyone of that management again. Id also make absolute sure they were never highered by anyone I knew. It really is a small ind, so fairness goes a long way =)
  • Michael Knubben
    Speaking of blacklisting: I must've been, somewhere along the line. I've been unsuccessfully trying out for junior positions (regularly at absolutely shit companies) and failing. Woo!
  • Mark Dygert
    I don't think you've been black listed pea, but keep up that "shit companies" talk and I can see how it would happen =P

    I think you're looking for a job in a tough market with a better then average portfolio. I'm not in the market where you're at, but I've heard it can be a tough place to find work and isn't booming like it once was.

    I imagine any added wow factor you can add, you should be doing. Which I think includes getting your own site and putting your best pieces front and center. You've got some great pieces in your portfolio and some amazing 2D skill but when someone hits your flickr page they have to go digging. I also don't see a lot of environmental art which is kind of the classic foot in the door position. Amazing 2D skills are great but if its only 35% of the job they are considering you for it might not be enough.

    I'm lucky to have a mediocre skill set and live in an area full of "shit companies" one of which hired me, and 2 others offered me jobs and contract offers keep rolling in. I can't say its fair but location and timing are fickle bitches.

    Have you thought about doing contract work to bolster your portfolio?
  • Scott Ruggels
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    Scott Ruggels polycounter lvl 13
    Communication is the key. I have worked a number of shitty jobs recently, but what made those jobs tolelrable was the fact that management was flexible and if you made your needs know (other than more money) they coudl accomodate you. But it really depends on the size of the bureacracy at the company, which is why I prefer working for smaller companies (Castaway Entertauinment being the sadly gone epitome of that). It seem thelarge t the bureacracy, and the more middle management, the less flexibility they get and the more they tr to geta one size fits all mode. Some studios seem to still operate with that "Work until you drop" ethos, where Crunch time is used as a team forging excercise. Like Combat it produce4s mixed results, even wounds and fatalities. But the problem is, as it has always been, about competant managers, and those are rare in this industry.

    Scott
  • danr
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    danr interpolator
    we don't crunch any more. We've got it down now, it's not really that hard - just takes someone with enough time and inclination to organise stuff properly, to shift work about, and keep on top of the sudden changes which normally cause the overtime.

    However, even with the best will in the world, shit happens. Hopefully it's very brief, sometimes it can drag on. But the last thing you want when that happens is for uppitty little arseholes to refuse to pull together with everyone else, to start waving bits of paper about and quoting chunks of employment law. Get up in my face with that and i'll kick you in the shin. Please just understand what's going on, and if you're gonna stew, well fucking well stew quietly, honestly you aren't helping.

    Not accusing anyone of anything of course, just hypothesising. Twats
  • Brettzies
    danr wrote: »
    However, even with the best will in the world, shit happens. Hopefully it's very brief, sometimes it can drag on.
    That's the definition of crunch time or over-time to me. You do it in spurts and not on a regular basis. A month of crunch time at the end of a project is not so bad, even 6 day weeks. Or every few weeks you have a looong week to weekend for some reason. But, when you do it for 4 months in a row or even longer that's when it's a bit messy, especially without OT pay. When that becomes "normal operating" procedure it's a problem and how can it be called overtime when it's a person's normal hours really.

    Generally though, people just need to know what they are getting into. You can be perfectly happy doing OT witout pay if you love your job, coworkers, great environment, good base salary, and bonus system. Or any combination of that. The problem with this law is it is potentially changing the "rules" in the middle. And for what? Shareholders? Executives? Really it seems to favor factory-style studios or small underfunded studios, and in CA, 75k is not a lot of money to be cutting OT off.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    danr wrote: »
    we don't crunch any more. We've got it down now, it's not really that hard - just takes someone with enough time and inclination to organise stuff properly, to shift work about, and keep on top of the sudden changes which normally cause the overtime.

    However, even with the best will in the world, shit happens. Hopefully it's very brief, sometimes it can drag on. But the last thing you want when that happens is for uppitty little arseholes to refuse to pull together with everyone else, to start waving bits of paper about and quoting chunks of employment law. Get up in my face with that and i'll kick you in the shin. Please just understand what's going on, and if you're gonna stew, well fucking well stew quietly, honestly you aren't helping.

    Not accusing anyone of anything of course, just hypothesising. Twats


    of course if they are making a fuss during a period where EVERYONE feels the need to pull together, they are being an ass.

    but still if you feel you're being treated poorly, or that your colleagues are. then raise the issue when the time is there for it to be dealt with.
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