Max VS. Maya
sorry if there is already a topic bout this.
just vote and leave your comment, what and why?
i choose Max only cuz thats all ive used, but ive only been doing 3d for 1 1/2 years (im almost 16) and alot of ppl say i should learn maya for the hair and cloth ect. ect. but im not sure. whats you opinion?
just vote and leave your comment, what and why?
i choose Max only cuz thats all ive used, but ive only been doing 3d for 1 1/2 years (im almost 16) and alot of ppl say i should learn maya for the hair and cloth ect. ect. but im not sure. whats you opinion?
Replies
Its pretty much just different buttons and mouse clicks to do the same things. Different skin on the same animal.
Each package has a few areas it shines in but you really have to start digging into them both to find any real meaningful differences and when you do there is probably a plug-ins or scripts that ports that functionality from one app into the other. So they pretty much come out even on all fronts.
Hair and cloth is 3dsmax almost works exactly the same way as it does in Maya. It is also included in the core package and doesn't cost extra. Maya does some things for you with dynamics that you don't have to mess with but really they can both pull off the same thing and they both suck in the same areas.
The best way to compare isn't really to ask biased people which they prefer. There are some pretty hardcore camps set up for both sides and they like to fling poo. Try them both out, fairly. Long enough to formulate your own opinion and see they're pretty much the same.
They are just tools, not a king you pledge your allegiance too. Think of them more as a set of standard and metric wrenches. Any craftsman worth his weight have a set of both and is stupid to turn down jobs that require one or the other. It's pointless to shut yourself off to potential jobs because your too busy waving the flag for your camp.
that's normal.
Agreed. Try learning XSI as well. Being adept in at least 2 of them should increase your chance of employment. Also, it depends on the type or work you want to do.
But anyway, yes, Elysium is right, choose 2 and learn both, this way you have knowledge to work in whatever company you would like to.
(btw, if you want to work at Blizzard some day, they are already switching to Maya)
Learn:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=7639525
and Learn:
http://www.softimage.com/products/modtool/
Education should be free.
Benefits I see so far, where each app is superior to the other. Mind you I haven't gotten into max too far.
Maya: MEL, Hypergraph, Hypershade, UV editor, Viewport navigation(personal preference)
Max: Skin modifier, Turbo smooth, modifier stack, Biped, viewport shader support
Straight out of the box I think Max wins hands down, the amount of customization and mel scripts you need to make Maya equally functional is absurd. Although for some reason I prefer Maya's viewport navigation to Max's. :P
If you ask me they both suck, Maya just sucks a bit harder...
I dropped Max/Xsi a few years ago to use Modo mainly... for modelling it's the best app i have ever used in years. Tiny, fast, powerful and not so expensive.
I also have been using Maya for some years (now must be better, for sure), and knowing almost all 3d apps, my weapon of choice is the best that fits with me, Modo
This is the eternal war, a matter of tastes
Ultimately it is whatever is most comfortable for the user or what you are forced to use at work. Sometimes you really don't have a choice, you just use what is given to you and get so good at it that you "think" it's the best. Mostly because you know where all the buttons are and can get done what you want very quickly.
Max is a good solid progam to learn so if that's what you have then go for it. Personally, it's last on my list of programs I'd want to use, and I have used it in production before. At first I thought it was cool because of all the gadgets and buttons you could push, modifiers, etc, but then I realized how conveluted it is. Just not my thing, but I don't knock it's ability to produce good work.
I started with Lightwave5.5 and it is a great program for modeling and rendering. Very easy and fast to get good results, but horrible for animation. Newer versions are probably better but it still looks like the anim part is clunky. Last time I used it was v8. I only bring this up to show the tanget paths you can go down. I don't regret learning Lightwave because it built a lot of good generalist skills, but it also wasn't well suited to what I wanted to do, animation.
Modo is what Lightwave should have evolved into which is why the modeling is so strong. I never used it, but I always thought it was cool.
I'm an animator so I've used Maya for years now. When I first switched to it, I felt like a dumb-ass for not doing it sooner. Felt like I wasted 2 or 3 years with Lightwave/Messiah:Animate. I really like the Maya workfow, even for modeling, but especially for rigs and animation. Of course, now that I'm comfortable with it, I fall into that category of knowing how to use it efficiently and don't see many downsides. There's no reason to switch for me. XSI may be better in ways but not enough to switch for me and I have used that in production as well.
This would be my recommendation:
If you just want to animate, learn maya.
If you want a good all around 3d app, learn xsi.
If you want to work at a specific game studio that uses max, learn max.
If you just want to make models, it doesn't matter that much, you can do it in all of them, but ultimately you might have to switch for work.
You can't really go wrong learning Max, but if you're at the point where you can "decide" a bit, a wouldn't hurt to look into some of the learning version. XSI even has a free stripped down "modder's" version.
Seriously, atleast have a bloody good dabble in all 3 major apps since all 3 i believe have demo versions.
As said previously all 3 are so simialar with clicky buttons but all 3 have a totally different approach and mentality.
Coming from animation purely, XSI and Maya are a bloody god send, MAX just drives me wild with incarnal rage. But I know alot more animators who find it the other way.
But off the bat, Max i hear is brilliant for modelling because of its approach, its all about the details, go learn.
As a guy who went from Max to Maya, it's particularly interesting to me whenever I hear Maya guys saying they find the Max modeling work-flow cumbersome.
After switching to Maya, once I'd customized some hotkeys and got set up with mel-scripts, I found the biggest remaining thorn in my side was Maya's mesh-building work-flow. Particularly the constant dependency Maya's scenes have on maintaining order in the Outliner window. In Max I can bash away like crazy in my scene while building my mesh, clone objects, chop and change symmetry modifiers, not bother naming objects/materials, ect. Then just clean the scene up as a final step, when I'm happy with the cosmetic appearance of whatever I'm working on.
Maya on the other hand, can run into serious problems if you don't keep your Outliner window nice and neat, particularly when using instances and mesh smoothing tools. Not to mention the constant periodic need to "freeze transforms" and "delete history" on the objects you're building...
I don't say that to be taken as Maya bashing, I'd be keen to hear a Maya-fiend's thoughts on the matter. Am I doing it wrong?!
They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
But the main selling points for me as a modeller, is the skinning in Max (you can tweak the mesh after skinning), the Reset Xform modifier, quality of the Normal Map bake, and numerical transform input (especially helpful in the UV Unwrapper).
In the end though, they usually yield the same results. It's all dependant on the artist, not the program.
read my last post.
Those are just as much the same selling points for XSI. You can edit the mesh during and after UV mapping, enveloping and animation. You can freeze your history using a button clearly visible at all times. And Ultimapper gives many options, and a quick preview.
Heh, I guess you just described XSI, Max and Maya there.
For me:
In my experience, I can model, texture, rig, animate, render and script in pretty much any application I need to use. Every app I've tried extensively (Max, Maya, Lightwave) always has several awesome strong points, and usually more laughable weak points.
UI- maxes is ace for being able to find things just by going to the obvious place, mayas is not tools are placed in menus for workflow, finding things can be a pain but once you have a workflow, the customisation and amout of hidden quick menus speeds up work no end.
viewport- maya isnt as good as max at displaying high density objects but seams much better at thousands of game style objects all with shaders and lighting (very dependant on shader though), also i much preffer mayas viewport navigation, fast and intuitive + doesnt break you workflow like maxes... as a level artist...
UVs- I find mayas simpler and less fancy, faster for simpler things but doesnt have as powerfull tools for organic shapes etc
modelling- max has more tools which are very usefull, but ive learnt to cope with mayas simpler systems and work around that, again ive grown to love some of its core tools, which has improved my hardcore modelling.
customisation- maya wins hands down, although saying that quite a few things that you need to make or get plugins for should really be part of the core program
both are glitchy bastards
I used max for years and years befor moving to maya at my current job, it was a pain to loose so many tools, but i find working in max quite slow when i go back to it,
The customization is great too. You don't have to be a hard core programmer to string together a few mel commands, or make a button to pick all ctrls, do repetative tasks, etc. I guess what I like about it is that you can virtually make it function to your personal workflow so easily. I've never been able to do that with other programs.
Of course, not everyone likes that, so it is a bit of personal taste.
I would argue against learning "all" the programs though. There's no reason to. Better to spend your time getting good at what it is you want to do be it model, rig, effects, etc. Even if you want to do it all. I would only switch if you find your current app not good at what it is you want to do or you have to for a job. As much as I like Maya, I kind of think XSI is the best "all-around" app.
Ceterum censeo Autodesk esse delendam.
This program gets very little attention, but holy crap do I love its interface and workflow. Right now it only does modeling, UVs, texture painting, and sculpting, but it does them so well. Especially the UV unwrapping: once I got used to Modo's UV tools, I couldn't touch Maya again.
But enough of my gushing.
QFT
Surprised to see the thread remain that civil, which is good
This type of thing often ends up in poo-flinging from all sides based on half-knowledge.
MoP already said it better than I could though, so just read his post, and take this as a '+1'
The costs could be a few weeks of down time to a few months. If they become a rare dual or triple software studio then they'll probably need a super tech artist, or a small army of mediocre ones or both.
Just because a few more people show up knocking on their door claiming to have 6mo of XSI or Maya under their belt isn't a significant force to move them off a piece of software they've been using.
While change does come from more people being in the loop about other software packages. It rarely comes fast enough for someone to forgo learning the popular packages and blaze ahead with the under appreciated app of their choice.
Give each one 2-3mo, stick to your favorite and stay current in the others. Avoid joining the polarized camps that never try the other apps.
And why hasn't there been a bigger fuss about Silo in this thread has it even been brought up once? For pure modeling joy its gotta be Silo.
Take your pick they are both great 3D modeling packages
(why can't i vote for both!)
That's what I was going to say.
Honestly though, I wish programs would give you control over the button/mouse combos for viewport obrit, pan, and zoom. I guess some do, but others it's locked. Makes switching back and forth so much easier when you can make navigation as close to each other as possible.