"Her right wrist was broken, her body had more than 20 bruises, her neck muscles were bleeding and a skin flap near her tongue had been torn. "
"Trujillo said they were acting out the video game 'Mortal Combat' by savagely hitting and kicking Zoe, even dropping her on her side, which broke her wrist."
"She had stopped breathing, and Trujillo and Roberts waited 15 minutes before calling for help. They said they put her in a bath, which temporarily revived her, but that she stopped breathing again. Roberts said he cracked an egg in her mouth 'to see if she was messing around with them.'"
Riiiiiiight, that sounds like it's pretty much certainly an accident. A seven year old girl gets literally to death, and you write the words "almost refreshing?" If people ream you, aesir, maybe it's because you're a fucking tool.
I don't really see how someone can reach the age of 17 without gaining enough of an understanding of the world to avoid beating a little kid to death by accident. And I would think that anyone who's successfully made it to high school should be able to tell whether or not someone has been knocked out without the need to... crack an egg in her mouth?? Even if it all was just a terrible accident like they say, the teens involved seem like they're operating on an intense level of stupidity that probably puts everyone near them in some sort of danger.
It's not stupidity..no ones that stupid these people obviously are completely screwed up. Thats like saying Ed gein was stupid or Charles Manson although there crimes involved murder I think the same wiring is involved. You can't blame video games or Movies for bad wiring. There is Right and wrong nuff said.
i bet if you got into a conversation with this girl and her boyfriend, you'd see that they can't talk properly : all sloppy mouth muscles and too much saliva, but really harsh on the ear all the same
Maybe I read a different article than you, Asmuel, but why would that be 'fair enough'?
Because she's family? Because she's female?
Aaah, positive discrimination, how I love thee.
The guy's from a minority though, surely we should cut him a break too?
That's just assuming that you meant it that way, ofcourse.
Either way, I really can't grasp this. There's no mention of a mental illness, but such an absolute disregard for human life (or alternatively, lack of any realisation of the consequences) can't just be reported on without any extra information, being explained away by violent media. And I don't think jail is the answer here. Isn't it obvious that she needs to see a psychologist, rather than a room with bars?
I don't recall any body slams in any of the mortal kombats I've seen.
regardless
it should be irrelevant weather they were reenacting it or not.
People should be made to take responsibility for there own action. Choosing to play a game, and reenact it is still there choice. Even if there is influence...there is still choice.
stop blaming movies and games for violence.
stop blaming heroin for drug addictions.
stop blaming food for fat people.
thanks for linking a seperate article than the one that was posted.
Regardless of whether they were monsters or not, my original point is that Im used to absurd sentences in the US, minors or not. Im not trying to play psychologist and examine what they were thinking. I'm commenting on how our current justice system focuses more on putting people in jail for absurd terms rather than on giving people second chances.
ill agree with you on the prison attitude these days. The solutions for pretty much everything in the USA is incarceration, which is arguably an ineffective form of rehabilitation. We have the largest percentage of incarcerated in the world, and with the advent of marionization and privatization the prison system is an actual INDUSTRY, making money by packing in more people.
I read somewhere that states are building prisons and plotting courses with how to handle new inmates ten years from now. In all probability, those 'future inmates' are probably seven or eight now. Seem like we're giving up on them a bit early?
fuck 17 is pretty old. if you dont know what you're doing at 17, you're fuuuckkeed.i would love to know what went through the heads of the 2 people when that happened.
as far as the scetence.. it might be reasonable if it's possible to re-rehabilitate the kids. i personally am not in favor of the (lets face it) fucking draconian justice system that we have, that seems to be more bent on revenge than rehabilitation.. the way i see it, it's like this:
we've got 2 kids. they're both pretty fucked in some way. the goal should be to un-fuck these kids. how are we going to do that? 30 year sentences where they get fucked in the ass and otherwise brutally, savagely abused? no. that would be primitive bullshit. forced therapy is difficult because they might not want to co-operate. perhaps use a draconian sentence and loom it over them as a treat if they don't demonstrate complete change after a run in therapy.
sigh.. maybe we don't have a solution at that point in time..
oh, and dale22x.. you might be right dude.. but explain the process of choice to me, will ya? because i'm not convinced.. what is the ability to chose based on? a set of moral distinctions? where did those come from? and what about a facility to interupt one's foolish behavior? can we be so sure that we allll are running that process?
either way, these little fuckers are responsible...
This makes me sick, another case of extremism and adolescent blinker syndrome which is obviously why this kind of thing won't become a regular occurence. I hope these kids rot in jail and that the family of the little girl have the time to mend enough for them to lead a happy life... So long live the entertainment industry, the collective are not to blame only the individual. aesir either your blind or dumb? I don't know which but you definately seem juvenile, try using other words to express yourself when you feel imtimidated or challenged - which by the way over the web is a bit pathetic, don't you think?
ookayyy everyone just needs to chiiillll mmaaaannnnnnnn
i'll make some brownies..
lets be nice.. lets not rage on aesir for raging on someone for raging on him.. lol this shit ain't workin. he's kinda right, that was a bit cruel of vermy there.
hah missed that one, thanks Adam!
But John, shouldn't we be dealt the same hand we play? Doesn't every reaction have an equal and opposite reaction - I mean don't these murderers deserve justice? If they get away with it wouldn't you think that would open the flood gates for more 'people' to act violently by seeing that they can get off lightly if they get caught? I agree the judicial system in any country is flawed in many ways but imho being kind to hate does more harm than good.
i agree with you completely, being kind to hate is certainly a mistake, but it would also be a mistake to believe that somehow these are "evil" people. the trick is to separate the behavior from the person, i believe.
i mean what is the goal of fucking someone up because they did something brutal? punishment soooooooooo ---??? they learn not to do it again? if the goal is to get them to not behave that way anymore, then we should do that in the most optimal way there is. but i mean.. if you can't rehabilitate someone like Canada's Clifford Olson, i dont care... kill the fucker.
i agree with you completely, being kind to hate is certainly a mistake, but it would also be a mistake to believe that somehow these are "evil" people. the trick is to separate the behavior from the person, i believe.
i mean what is the goal of fucking someone up because they did something brutal? punishment soooooooooo ---??? they learn not to do it again? if the goal is to get them to not behave that way anymore, then we should do that in the most optimal way there is. but i mean.. if you can't rehabilitate someone like Canada's Clifford Olson, i dont care... kill the fucker.
I don't see prison time as anything other than a punishment; it is not designed to cure a person of their social and mental deficiencies. It is a punishment akin to: you get D's on your report card and you're grounded, not you get D's on your report card and we'll hire a tutor to help you do better next time.
Would society be better if there was a better system in place to deal with nightmares like this? Of course, but how are we as a nation going to pay for prison programs to rehabilitate inmates when we can barely afford to house them. I feel any money would be better spent on a myriad of other programs (education, unempolyment, etc).
I'm not trying to flame you dude, but yes there are evil fucked up people out there, and if I had to guess, I'd say these two ass-tards are at least fucked-up enough to be the sort that I would rather never have to interact with, even if they're not evil.
Honestly, though, where does MK enter into this at all? This doesn't have shit to do with vidogames, just bad parenting and bad decisions.
Would society be better if there was a better system in place to deal with nightmares like this? Of course, but how are we as a nation going to pay for prison programs to rehabilitate inmates when we can barely afford to house them. I feel any money would be better spent on a myriad of other programs (eduaction, unempolyment, etc).
I think you are missing the point. We are strained already exactly because we only treat prison as punishment and don't really take into consideration the effects on society. We have the largest percentage of our population in prison of any country. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy- throw people in prison, provide no rehab or support for them- they drain resources and prisoners, and then when they get out and have no options, they go back to prison or strain our social programs even more.
Tell me this: These two kids are 17 and 18. We throw them in prison for 25 years. They are middle-aged when they get out. They've spent the prime of their life and half of their working years in prison. What happens then?
I said prison in our country is punishment and not rehabilitation and that it would be better on society if there was a better way to deal with this stuff...but how do we come up with the extra funds to add behavioral modification programs?
Before I see them take tax money to do that, I'd rather they pre-empt such behavior with more money spent on education and other out-reach programs; better schools, after-school progams, teacher salary increases, etc. I would love to see the world be a better place, but I feel like you have your best chance of doing that when people are young and setting them on the right path.
I asked how do we pay for better prison programs, maybe I should have asked how do we make them happen and not how much they cost.
Maybe I am being an ass to say the teens in this case are just lost causes, but I don't see how to fix the system from where I'm sitting. I'm not going to sit here and weep for those fuck-ups either. I know PLENTY of people who have grown up in horrid life conditions who have never killed or maimed a little kid, by accident or otherwise. Do you really want these teens free? I know you're all good people and want to help them, but you need to remember that they were old enough to know what they were doing, and were not forced to do what they did.
incredible... to say mortal kombat here sounds like the perfect excuse.
Devils... Those two killers are bad people. The abuse is incredible, too much rage, merciless. Are they fool? i don't think so, a couple always know perfectly what they do.
Maybe I read a different article than you, Asmuel, but why would that be 'fair enough'?
Because she's family? Because she's female?
Aaah, positive discrimination, how I love thee.
The guy's from a minority though, surely we should cut him a break too?
Because she tired to stop the guy. Because the article implies that she was negligent, but he was doing most of the beating. Because he's an arrogant prick who beats up little girls to feel tough, it seems to me that she's just a dumb teenager who enjoys picking on her sister, and let things go way too far.
The article stated that Zoe tried to stop the guy, not her older sister. At first I read it the way you did, and that did change matters, but that not being the case, I don't think her having inflicted the least damage should really count for much. And also, it's somewhat frightening how you can read so much into this. He's an arrogant prick, and she's just a dumb teenager? It's possible, but the articles don't provide much in the way of hard facts on that, so I can't really form any opinion on it.
There's a point where negligence isn't much of an excuse anymore, and it just becomes intent.
Yea thats how I read it. Its bloody obvious you'd be trying to stop someone attacking you, so I thought it was the older sister. They should watch how they word it, as its easy to misunderstand.
The arrogant part was in reference to his "martial-arts expert with his hands registered as "lethal weapons"' claim. Yea, real fucking tough beating up a 7 year old. What a piece of shit.
So yea, we don't know all the details of the case anyway. Maybe she should get off lightly, maybe she shouldn't, maybe they all should be shot, I really don't care anymore. Sad for the young girl though.
Replies
"Her right wrist was broken, her body had more than 20 bruises, her neck muscles were bleeding and a skin flap near her tongue had been torn. "
"Trujillo said they were acting out the video game 'Mortal Combat' by savagely hitting and kicking Zoe, even dropping her on her side, which broke her wrist."
"She had stopped breathing, and Trujillo and Roberts waited 15 minutes before calling for help. They said they put her in a bath, which temporarily revived her, but that she stopped breathing again. Roberts said he cracked an egg in her mouth 'to see if she was messing around with them.'"
Riiiiiiight, that sounds like it's pretty much certainly an accident. A seven year old girl gets literally to death, and you write the words "almost refreshing?" If people ream you, aesir, maybe it's because you're a fucking tool.
betcha
Don't see the relevance of mortal combat in the headline. Complete nonsense.
Because she's family? Because she's female?
Aaah, positive discrimination, how I love thee.
The guy's from a minority though, surely we should cut him a break too?
That's just assuming that you meant it that way, ofcourse.
Either way, I really can't grasp this. There's no mention of a mental illness, but such an absolute disregard for human life (or alternatively, lack of any realisation of the consequences) can't just be reported on without any extra information, being explained away by violent media. And I don't think jail is the answer here. Isn't it obvious that she needs to see a psychologist, rather than a room with bars?
regardless
it should be irrelevant weather they were reenacting it or not.
People should be made to take responsibility for there own action. Choosing to play a game, and reenact it is still there choice. Even if there is influence...there is still choice.
stop blaming movies and games for violence.
stop blaming heroin for drug addictions.
stop blaming food for fat people.
learn some self control.
No kidding. At 16/17 years old you should know better, regardless of how shitty your parents are.
ill agree with you on the prison attitude these days. The solutions for pretty much everything in the USA is incarceration, which is arguably an ineffective form of rehabilitation. We have the largest percentage of incarcerated in the world, and with the advent of marionization and privatization the prison system is an actual INDUSTRY, making money by packing in more people.
I read somewhere that states are building prisons and plotting courses with how to handle new inmates ten years from now. In all probability, those 'future inmates' are probably seven or eight now. Seem like we're giving up on them a bit early?
as far as the scetence.. it might be reasonable if it's possible to re-rehabilitate the kids. i personally am not in favor of the (lets face it) fucking draconian justice system that we have, that seems to be more bent on revenge than rehabilitation.. the way i see it, it's like this:
we've got 2 kids. they're both pretty fucked in some way. the goal should be to un-fuck these kids. how are we going to do that? 30 year sentences where they get fucked in the ass and otherwise brutally, savagely abused? no. that would be primitive bullshit. forced therapy is difficult because they might not want to co-operate. perhaps use a draconian sentence and loom it over them as a treat if they don't demonstrate complete change after a run in therapy.
sigh.. maybe we don't have a solution at that point in time..
oh, and dale22x.. you might be right dude.. but explain the process of choice to me, will ya? because i'm not convinced.. what is the ability to chose based on? a set of moral distinctions? where did those come from? and what about a facility to interupt one's foolish behavior? can we be so sure that we allll are running that process?
either way, these little fuckers are responsible...
aesir either your blind or dumb? I don't know which but you definately seem juvenile, try using other words to express yourself when you feel imtimidated or challenged - which by the way over the web is a bit pathetic, don't you think?
Johnny, I laughed at you saying un-fuck. That's my new word, un-fuck.
aesir, chill-out my friend.
i'll make some brownies..
lets be nice.. lets not rage on aesir for raging on someone for raging on him.. lol this shit ain't workin. he's kinda right, that was a bit cruel of vermy there.
Adam -- lets get webster on the phone.
But John, shouldn't we be dealt the same hand we play? Doesn't every reaction have an equal and opposite reaction - I mean don't these murderers deserve justice? If they get away with it wouldn't you think that would open the flood gates for more 'people' to act violently by seeing that they can get off lightly if they get caught? I agree the judicial system in any country is flawed in many ways but imho being kind to hate does more harm than good.
i mean what is the goal of fucking someone up because they did something brutal? punishment soooooooooo ---??? they learn not to do it again? if the goal is to get them to not behave that way anymore, then we should do that in the most optimal way there is. but i mean.. if you can't rehabilitate someone like Canada's Clifford Olson, i dont care... kill the fucker.
I don't see prison time as anything other than a punishment; it is not designed to cure a person of their social and mental deficiencies. It is a punishment akin to: you get D's on your report card and you're grounded, not you get D's on your report card and we'll hire a tutor to help you do better next time.
Would society be better if there was a better system in place to deal with nightmares like this? Of course, but how are we as a nation going to pay for prison programs to rehabilitate inmates when we can barely afford to house them. I feel any money would be better spent on a myriad of other programs (education, unempolyment, etc).
I'm not trying to flame you dude, but yes there are evil fucked up people out there, and if I had to guess, I'd say these two ass-tards are at least fucked-up enough to be the sort that I would rather never have to interact with, even if they're not evil.
Honestly, though, where does MK enter into this at all? This doesn't have shit to do with vidogames, just bad parenting and bad decisions.
I think you are missing the point. We are strained already exactly because we only treat prison as punishment and don't really take into consideration the effects on society. We have the largest percentage of our population in prison of any country. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy- throw people in prison, provide no rehab or support for them- they drain resources and prisoners, and then when they get out and have no options, they go back to prison or strain our social programs even more.
Tell me this: These two kids are 17 and 18. We throw them in prison for 25 years. They are middle-aged when they get out. They've spent the prime of their life and half of their working years in prison. What happens then?
I said prison in our country is punishment and not rehabilitation and that it would be better on society if there was a better way to deal with this stuff...but how do we come up with the extra funds to add behavioral modification programs?
Before I see them take tax money to do that, I'd rather they pre-empt such behavior with more money spent on education and other out-reach programs; better schools, after-school progams, teacher salary increases, etc. I would love to see the world be a better place, but I feel like you have your best chance of doing that when people are young and setting them on the right path.
I asked how do we pay for better prison programs, maybe I should have asked how do we make them happen and not how much they cost.
Maybe I am being an ass to say the teens in this case are just lost causes, but I don't see how to fix the system from where I'm sitting. I'm not going to sit here and weep for those fuck-ups either. I know PLENTY of people who have grown up in horrid life conditions who have never killed or maimed a little kid, by accident or otherwise. Do you really want these teens free? I know you're all good people and want to help them, but you need to remember that they were old enough to know what they were doing, and were not forced to do what they did.
Whatever, I am through with this thread.
Devils... Those two killers are bad people. The abuse is incredible, too much rage, merciless. Are they fool? i don't think so, a couple always know perfectly what they do.
This make me sick.
Because she tired to stop the guy. Because the article implies that she was negligent, but he was doing most of the beating. Because he's an arrogant prick who beats up little girls to feel tough, it seems to me that she's just a dumb teenager who enjoys picking on her sister, and let things go way too far.
There's a point where negligence isn't much of an excuse anymore, and it just becomes intent.
The arrogant part was in reference to his "martial-arts expert with his hands registered as "lethal weapons"' claim. Yea, real fucking tough beating up a 7 year old. What a piece of shit.
So yea, we don't know all the details of the case anyway. Maybe she should get off lightly, maybe she shouldn't, maybe they all should be shot, I really don't care anymore. Sad for the young girl though.