Learning to draw
polycounter lvl 18
HAI GUISE
CAN IT BE LERNING TO DRAW TIEM NOW PLZ?
I'm interested in learning how to draw. I'm sure lots of you took classes for years and years, but I'm looking for more of the home-study version, three hours a day in the park sketching squirrels, that sort of thing.
My current artistic ability is such that I cannot draw a straight line, even with the assistance of a ruler.
I've ruled out picking up "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" because it seems to focus on reproducing something you see; I want to be able to draw unimpeded from my imagination.
I've read mixed reviews of "The Natural Way to Draw" which does state things like "now stop and draw X for three hours, keeping in mind all the things you just read."
Suggestions of greater substance than "just draw all the time dude" and "just go take some classes dude" would be appreciated.
CAN IT BE LERNING TO DRAW TIEM NOW PLZ?
I'm interested in learning how to draw. I'm sure lots of you took classes for years and years, but I'm looking for more of the home-study version, three hours a day in the park sketching squirrels, that sort of thing.
My current artistic ability is such that I cannot draw a straight line, even with the assistance of a ruler.
I've ruled out picking up "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" because it seems to focus on reproducing something you see; I want to be able to draw unimpeded from my imagination.
I've read mixed reviews of "The Natural Way to Draw" which does state things like "now stop and draw X for three hours, keeping in mind all the things you just read."
Suggestions of greater substance than "just draw all the time dude" and "just go take some classes dude" would be appreciated.
Replies
Bad news...to really learn how to draw well you HAVE to set your imagination aside some times and draw what you see. But you dont have to straight copy it. Get some "anatomy for the artist" type books and refer to them often whenever you are unclear about a detail.
I recommend George Bridgman, but there are plenty of good books on the subject.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/104...o.y=0&Go=Go
Some core things you want to focus on is anatomy, perspective, technique (as in, actual mark making, line variation, hatching etc.) but dont try it all at once.
What id suggest is drawing a bit, and pinpointing a weak point in your drawing, and something that's bite size enough to attack in one session. Spend a few hours on that. Next day try something else.
Most important thing is consistency, so if you can do that 3 hours/day thing like youre planning, you'll see improvement in no time.
I'm looking for a process, I guess. You say, "drawing a bit," but drawing what? Since I'm just starting out, *everything* is a weak spot, so what do you focus on first? That sort of thing. I guess that's where classes help, of course.
MOAR PLZ
After you've done that for some weeks, you begin to better understand how certain shapes work, sort of like building an archive of modular bits in your head. When drawing after the fact, you can then refer to that cache, and know how to draw a certain thing you've seen before.
Like anything, repetition is required to learn.
My old art director gave us simple stuff to do when I started at 5000ft in 2001. He'd have us draw a full sheet of paper with small "s" curves. We'd do that each night, for 2 weeks. It's meant to get your mind adjusted to one of the most common drawing motions. From there, you start with small things. Draw a piece of fruit each and every night. Small thumbnails of the same fruit - fill a whole page.
Then move to something a bit more complicated, or organic, even. If you draw with right handed, draw a picture of your left hand while it sits there. Keep progressing like that.
both books you've decided not to get are good books and will have lots of information, far more than we can give you.
I've done some beginning exercises from Nicolaides book [long blind contour drawings], they were mindblowingly boring; but extremely beneficial in the long run.
QFT:
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Most important thing is consistency, so if you can do that 3 hours/day thing like youre planning, you'll see improvement in no time
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When you're working to build up your art skill you shouldn't draw what you're good at you should draw whatever your 'weak spot' is. So when you say;
Q: "Everything is a weak spot, what should I draw".
A: "Everything, just pick something".
For me, I draw what I know. This doesn't mean I stick to drawing only a few things but if I haven't observed the fine details of something, I can't expect myself to draw those details. Lack of observations leads to weak drawings.
Observing is a big hurdle for some people to get over, after hand eye coordination. You don't have to copy the world around you although that is a good place to start, but you do have to pay close attention to it. Getting the artist eye almost has more to do with how you look at and remember details than it does learning what colors mix to make what.
I think people are scared to draw what they see because the differences will be very apparent.
"Hey guys look at this portrait I did of Gisele Bündchen!"
"Are you sure that isn't Dom Deluise?"
How can you grade yourself if you have nothing to compare your drawing too? doing that comparison after the ink settles helps sharpen your ability.
Don't be afraid to turn a page and start drawing it again.
Draw big, people starting to draw tend to draw small sketchy little doodles. Which lets them leave out important details and helps cover up flaws. It's the lazy way out honestly. How do you ever expect to learn how to draw an eye if all the eyes you draw are as big as the tip of your pencil?
[/soap box time]
Recommended Authors
Burne Hogarth
Christopher Hart
Don't for get "Learning to Draw Comics The Marvel Way" its like a right of passage.
I'm drawing a blank... /rimshot hopefully someone else will mention books I'm forgetting
i think learning how to draw is a process that would demand you answer these questions:
what do u want to draw?
what do you need to learn to achieve it?
if u want to draw concept art, characters, monsters, all that stuff, u'll have to learn anatomy. find an anatomy book that has drawings that appeal to you, graphically/stylistically, and find artists that draw in a way that appeals to you as well, then start copying and studying the anatomical drawings to the point where you feel what you are learning becomes communicational, like language "spoken" from your hands. you can say, express something, using the tools u've learned, through the drawing. learn the rules and then bend the rules, see how u can stretch them expressively.
i believe what makes an artist unique is making up your own unique words, creating your own visual language. that way you will not look like mainstream and will have ur own style.
from my experience, this process has no start and no end, because these words are things u see and think and perceive and feel every moment, since birth. you will learn how to express them, how to create something until u r fluent in doing so, and then u reach a will milestone. ok-learned this. next thing... how do i make this? how how how, try try try. that's basically it...
honestly, no right or wrong, i dont see the point of what u'r asking for here. go and do what feels right, what u feel answers your passion and gets u closer to whatever target u have. no matter what choices u make - a mistake is when u refuse to admit u were wrong. always use ur mistakes to try and learn what u did wrong, and get better.
for human anatomy you can checkout Bridgeman; Vanderpole; Loomis; Paul Richer (translated by Robert Beverly Hayle). The rest are usually derivitive of one of the above, leaving out information that the author considered less than absolutely necessary. Michael Goldfinger (IIRC) has a large anatomy book which is essentially Richer's book with photos instead of Richer's drawings, Goldfinger also included crossections of the major limbs, which I didn't find particularly purposeful.
for mechanical design a basic perspective book is a must, after that you can look at some industrial design books, military vehicle reference books are also very helpful.
For general drawing and perception I don't think there's any book better than Nicolaides' "The Natural Way to Draw", especially if you are the type that prefer a regimented program of exercises as opposed to free experimentation and exploration by yourself.
http://the-structure-of-man.blogspot.com/
You can watch the lessons on youtube.
MOAR OF WHAT OTHER PPL WERE SAYING PLZ K THX
nuthin' but love
Draw anything and everything and draw lots. You will probably think it looks shit, chances are it might.
Try this exercise: Draw something, anything and when you're done,keep that picture somewhere. After 2 months of practice, try and re-do that picture without looking at the original. Once done, compare. In that short 2 month period, you will see that you have improved.
That will be a huge boost to your confidence and will inspire you to keep going.
But unfortunately, yes it will take time, a lot of time and whole lot of drawing.
-caseyjones
On another level, of course you have to have an idea of how things look. Sometimes a very specific idea in the case of anatomy.
Obviously all the rules that determine how to draw can be proceduralized-- this is why computers can make such realistic renderings. The two main concepts that you need to understand very well when drawing from imagination are light and perspective. If you plan to draw humans, anatomy is critical. If you plan to do full color, there is color theory to learn.
If you learn those things then you should be able to draw a lot of stuff.
FUCK YOU HARD WORK!
Step 1: g.drawLine(x1, y1, x2, y2)
Step 2: Repeat Step 1
Riven Phoenix human figure drawing is worth a look. He teaches how to invent the human form so you can record the structure in your mind:
http://the-structure-of-man.blogspot.com/
You can watch the lessons on youtube.
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I second this. Videos (these or others) are very good if you need something structured to force you to actually do stuff. Draw everything he does, then after each video fill a page or two with it until you've got it down and move on to the next. Unfortunately only the first 12 or so are still available in full on youtube, the rest have been shortened to previews since he finished the series. The DVDs are totally worth it though after you get through the first section of BS and into the actual anatomy.
Personally, anatomy books have never worked for me. I have a bunch of them and they mostly just sit around and collect dust. I look at a picture of a skeleton for five seconds and forget the whole thing. Videos on the other hand force you to spend say, half an hour on just the scapula or clavicle or whatever-- then after that you can look at your books for more realistic reference which will actually stick since you've built a groundwork of context and understanding.
I think that's what you're looking for.
Per do you hangout at eatpoo? if you don't you should. you'll fit right in.
Seriously though, there are different ways to learn. The only book I spent any amount of time with was Hogarth's Dynamic Anatomy. It is plainly obvious that he is not drawing from life in that book.
The way I see it, drawing from life and drawing from imagination are two totally different skills. I personally feel like drawing from life is much easier since it involves simply sitting in one spot and measuring out angles, distances and shading differences-- in fact you don't need to understand anatomy at all to draw that way, the same way your camera doesn't need to understand anatomy to record light intensity.
Drawing anything from your imagination requires a real understanding of light and perspective. This sets the stage for drawing anything else.
I took a number of studio art classes, almost all of which I found painfully tedious. When I draw from my imagination I enter a state of "zen" or being "in the zone". I can't really say what happens then since I am completely absorbed.
I think Shotgun's post while cryptic is entirely true. You have to find your own lines and you have to feel it. This takes time and practice.
Per does have a very good point: If you want to draw your office chair, drawing it from life will probably be better than drawing it from memory. But, If you want to draw any chair that could be, drawing from imagination is the way to go.
Although life drawing is a valuable skill, it doesn't really stick in your head.
Personally I don't draw much these days as all my work is 3d or texturing, but I suppose I should:)
I find sculpture is much more helpful in working out forms, because you have to understand the form to build the 'object' as it were,undertsanding all the viewpoints whereas 2d art is just an illusion from one particular viewpoint.
I love 3d modelling from life, ie my own hands face, plastic superhero characters for the same reason.
Another thing about drawing from your imagination exclusivily is that its a real good way to develop bad habits. Especially when it comes to drawing characters and creatures. You'll also find that you end up repeating yourself alot, drawing the same couple of things every time you sit down.
Drawing from life can be boring, but try to take pleasure in the knowledge that you are attempting to strip away the layers of preconception about what you are looking at, and perhaps getting closer to understanding the world around you in a more direct, true way. The same goes for exercises like grey scales or hatching practice. That shit can get pretty tiresome, and so many people that I've known that try to learn to draw give up when confronted with this. The reality is you have to WORK to get good at ANYTHING, and things like grey scales are simply pure work. Like an athlete training. Sure lifting weights and running isn't as glorious as scoring the winning goal but its those things that get him to a place where he can score that winning goal.
Another detrimental preconception that alot of people have regarding art making is that it's about producing a masterpiece, or some otherwise marvelous piece of artwork. The artist's job is finished when the piece is finished, so in reality, other than as a reference for the mistakes you should learn from, the finished peice should be the most meaningless part to the creator. (caveat: I'm speaking from a purely educational stand here, its different in the commercial art biz, but at that point your already pretty good and its working toward a different goal) I realize this is counter to everything most people think about art, but an artists job is creating the art, not appriciating it. What should be focused on is the creation of the piece, the drawing, painting, sculpture, whatever you produce at the end is merely the residue of your processes. If all those processes are firing on all cylinders than, yes the end result will probably be something "well done" or cool, or whatever, but that should be incidental. This is not to say there shouldn't be a goal for what you are working on, but it shouldn't be the sole obsession. Drawing with only the hope of producing some awesome creature or something is like driving a race and only thinking of the end...if you pay attention to the curves, the mistakes and the successes, eventually, and inevitably you will get to that end.
Side Note: All this is just my opinion, take it or leave it. The only "right way" to draw is the way the works for you, pushing your forward, and allowing you to learn. My previous statements are simply based on observations of the many people I've known that have tried to learn to make art and gave up.
My concern with learning using the process in "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" is that it seemed to focus on copying real life (e.g. instant gratification) rather than on fundamentals of lines and light and perspective.
I did not say, I didn't want to draw from life. I said, I don't want to *only* be able to draw from life. I don't want to have to dummy up a scene with lighting and models in order to be able to draw it. My goal is to be able to draw accurately without having a visual reference.
Obviously, if I start out mentioning three hours of effort a day, I'm not looking for an easy way out. I'm looking for a process or method to make that time as productive as possible, without classroom instruction.
I will be banning Per later today. Everyone who agreed with him will get to stay on the boards, but I'll delete all their posts and reset their post counts to zero.
Apart from Per, all you guys' posts have been great and I appreciate the suggestions.
I picked up Nicolaides' book. Someone else off-boards also suggested Andrew Loomis' out-of-print stuff. Anyone worked with those?
MOAR PLZ
The Loomis books are pretty sought after so its hard to find them anywhere. Why they haven't issued reprints is beyond me. Maybe it's because all the images seem out of date, or some crap ass law stopping people, dunno, but he covers some good stuff and is pretty much the granddaddy of the artist help book category. I think there's a website like "saveloomis.com" or something...
Going through the steps of drawing something you see makes you learn how to see objects/scenes and break them apart. Trust me, even though you're drawing a chair in your office or some generic naked person you're training your brain to pay attention to details and learn how stuff works and fits together.
Hell even when you are creating something from imagination, it always helps to get reference so that whatever you're drawing, modeling etc makes sense. It's silly to ignore the world around you :P
UR STRUGLEZ R IN VIEN!
http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm
been very helpful to me, always wish i'd seen it earlier.
[edit] Bah, who cares about typos, sleep is for the weak... or the weekend, rather =_= [/edit]
Tell me you've never copied an extra tinger
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I can honestly say I have never before copied a tinger. :P
CRAZY WRONG
hah
My point for this thread was to hear about differences like that, please post it.
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Well, it was half bitching about Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, which I consider to be fairly long-winded for what it provides. They run you through all sorts of gimmicky shit like drawing negative space, drawing upsidedown, drawing quarters-- all of which are really just steps and crutches to get you to the point where you don't need them. It's an important skill you'll learn, but the book in particular is in no way irreplacable, in my opinion.
Personally, it's my view that life drawing is MOST useful in the second stage of drawing-- AFTER you have built a foundation of understanding so that you actually understand what exactly it IS that you're seeing and drawing. Otherwise, it's entirely possible to copy copy copy without thinking and never really learn anything except mechanical skills (The same as you can drawing bad art from your imagination). Life drawing continues to be a medium that can expand your repertoire of shapes pretty much forever since an artist never stops learning, though reference and experimentation become important as well (drawing an existing subject from an angle you can't see, blending animal musculature onto a new creation, etc) they're quite different animals. Drawing from life is important, but it's also not a substitute for practicing drawing from your mind.
I'm with you all the way dude, no matter what these admins threaten us with
-caseyjones