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Computer Ergonomics

Hi all

So i created this thread because i feel that something like this is lacking in PC. something related to computer ergonomics and diseases related to the use of computers.

Im doing physiotherapy to my wrists and lower back and was wondering if any of you have the same problems. and if so what do you do when you are on pain.
THe most common disease among artists might be carpal tunnel syndrome and tendinitis (inflammations of tendons) i know that roscharch had carpal tunnel surguery.

So, how do you have your rig at home and work? do you have like special chairs or soemthing? post pics if you can and talk about your experiences.

I for one have no idea what i have. I did a test to see if i had carpal tunnel( this test where they give you shocks on your nerves thru the help with needles and measure the response time. if the response time is high means that something is compresing the nerve. i had good times. so i might have tendinitis. this started like about a year. but i think it was because i was using dumbells and i might have strained something. yet today it still hurts..

frown.gif

Replies

  • Neo_God
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    Neo_God polycounter lvl 18
    I'd like to have a more comfortable set up, but I do not, but I do need to have something to rest my elbow on, or it starts to really hurt.

    I am thinking of investing in one of these mice
    http://www.evoluent.com/vm3.html
  • Pedro Amorim
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    ohhh thats is really awesome. i bet it would avoid some injuries in the long run. i wonder if they ship to portugal.
  • notman
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    notman polycounter lvl 18
    Yeah, if you get that NeoGod, let us know how it feels/works out. It looks goofy as hell, but I tried just turning my mouse on the side and it feels better that way. I'd be interested in this myself.
  • indian_boy
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    likewise notman! its much more comfy.... all that's stopping me is a possibly 'stellar' price point lol!
  • Pedro Amorim
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    yeah. i rotated my arm to the right and immediatly i felt more relived
  • SkullboX
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    SkullboX polycounter lvl 18
    Before anything else, take enough breaks, which is probably what any expert will tell you. Get a timer for that.

    Apart from that, make sure you chair and desk don't completely suck and stop using a mouse for any 2D and 3D work, do everything with your tablet instead.

    I lost about half a year because of a pretty bad case of rsi (or whatever it's called now) and the two things above got be back up and continuously productive again. Good luck!
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    Everything starts with the back. Sitting at a right angle is NOT good on your back, regardless of what people consider "proper". The optimal angle for your back is around 30-45 degrees, leaning back. Move your chair & peripherals around to compensate for this.

    Get an ergonomic keyboard. The Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 is a great choice. I use it at both work and home. Sure, it takes a little time to adjust to it, but once you do, your wrists will thank you.

    Make sure your mouse is comfortable in your hand, and that you're not having to bend your wrist to use it. Get a gel-padded pad if you have to, but make sure your wrist stays relatively straight.
  • Penzer
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    Penzer polycounter lvl 17
    Wow that vertical mouse looks totally wonky, but if you tilt your mouse to the side that feels comfy. I use an mx1000 right now, so its far from flat and I do love this mouse.

    I worry about my left wrist in the future. I shattered it into seven pieces skateboarding when I was in highschool, I've had a plate and three screws in there ever since.

    I've got a question about the ergonomics keyboard. What actually makes that a better angle for your wrist? I always thought those were just a gimmicky idea to sell keyboards. I didn't know they are actually good.
  • Marine
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    Marine polycounter lvl 18
    get a mouse mat with a wrist rest, everyone should have one.
  • Pedro Amorim
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    what should i look for in a desk and chair?
    like. the sizes of them?

    hey skullbox what did you have? sintoms and stuff like that? im interested in cases like this so i can compare to muyself.
  • Asmuel
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    Asmuel polycounter lvl 17
    yea anybody got opinions on the best computer chair? thinking about getting a good one cool.gif
  • Rhinokey
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    Rhinokey polycounter lvl 18
    you also have to becarefull with ergonomic furniture and periphreals. theres really no official proccess for rgonomics to be approved. so any company can make a goofy looking mouse and slap "ergonomic" on the label. i would recomend breaks thru out the day. also hit a gym a few times a week http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1546556 thats a really good article on exercises that help correct problems caused by our new computer focused lifestyles
  • adam
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    adam polycounter lvl 19
    Chair: Herman Miller makes the best.
  • Sean McBride
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    Sean McBride polycounter lvl 18
    Aye, they do. We've got these at work and they are AWESOME. I completely suggest getting one if you have the cash.

    http://www.csnchairs.com/resources/hermanmiller/aeronchair.asp

    I've never been able to wrap my head around using a tablet for 3D Studio Max though... it feels so strange going back and forth between zbrush and max...
  • Fuse
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    Fuse polycounter lvl 18
    Sean, it was weird at first, but now using a mouse in a 3D app feels slow and clunky.... It takes a bit of getting used to but the rewards in terms of speed, control, feel and fluidity are worth it.
  • Josh Winn
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    Great link Rhinokey. oops, looks like I need to make some changes to my gym routine. I'm doing all the things they mention NOT to be doing for a computer guy, "Bench press, arm curls, lat pulldowns, leg presses, leg curls, crunches":

    "The vast majority of those exercises promote a forward flexed position or compressive/shear force on the spine [Read: not good]. By repeating the same posture in the gym that he was in from 9-5, computer guy WILL produce improper motor patterns that just cause or reinforce all of his problems in the first place!"

    It goes into what I've been wanting to research lately, fixing my posture. I'll have to start trying out some of this stuff tomorrow.
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycount lvl 666
    I actually have not got a chair at the moment.
    i have to pull my spare double bed over as a spare makeshift seat. pretty uncomfy, but my back has held up so far.
    only time I had tendonitis in the wrist was in the army from sweeping leaves all day:{

    I use a wacom nearly all the time now ,even in max when modelling
  • Ged
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    Ged interpolator
    lol I dont even have a proper mousepad at work, its just a pile of papers that seem to slip around occasionally. We should be getting company branded ones some time. Do you guys actually use your tablet in your 3D apps? I find that rotating the camera is really hard with a tablet! so I cant use it for 3D other than when I sculpt
  • sprunghunt
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    sprunghunt polycounter
    [ QUOTE ]
    I've got a question about the ergonomics keyboard. What actually makes that a better angle for your wrist? I always thought those were just a gimmicky idea to sell keyboards. I didn't know they are actually good.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I use an ergonomic keyboard. It works on the same principle as the mouse that has been mentioned. If you rotate your hand outwards to it's natural position you aren't twisting your ulna over your radius when you're using your hand muscles. This means your wrist is more relaxed when you operate your keyboard which leads to fewer strain injuries from typing.

    The best ergonomic keyboards allow you to adjust the tilt of the keyboard sections to perfectly fit your relaxed hand position because everyone is a little different.
  • Illusions
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    Illusions polycounter lvl 18
    I have a memory foam mousepad that I picked up at Staples for less than $20, its pretty even with the standard gel mousepad though, but I would avoid the hard foam kind. Other than that, I switch between using a tablet and a mouse when working in 3D to alieviate some discomfort. Chairs with armrests are also nice, especially if the armrests are level with the desk surface. That way you can keep your arm straight, your elbow is resting on something soft and is supported, and you're not straining your arm trying too much.
  • SkullboX
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    SkullboX polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    hey skullbox what did you have? sintoms and stuff like that? im interested in cases like this so i can compare to muyself.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I started feeling it in my right wrist. I was working 12+ hour days for 4 weeks or so straight, which simply was way too much. So I decided to take a break from computer and do some stuff to stimulate the circulation of blood, and decided to fix up my desk, which completely messed up my shoulder - to a point where I couldn't raise my arm at all for a couple of days.

    I went to a doctor who sent me to a cesar (or so) therapist, somebody who specialises in this sort of stuff. I got a number of excersizes and tips on how to sit, work and I was continuously stressed to take enough breaks on a regular basis. I was also told that pain in your wrist rarely is just caused by the repetitive movement of the wrist, but mainly the lack of movement in the shoulder which prevents bloodcirculation to the arm and wrist. That's why taking a break regularly and making large movements while at it so important. Even if the pain you feel is mainly in your wrist, the problem probably starts in you lower back and the lack of movement of the arm.

    After that it took a while but after a few months my producton speed was back to its normal level. When I work long hours for a consecutive period it still acts up, but I now know how to handle it. Apart from the extremely helpful guidance I got, buying a good tablet was also an extremly important part in recovering. Get at least an A5 size tablet, so your movements will be relatively large, stimulating constant bloodflow to your wrists and especially your shoulders while working.

    Since then, I really appreciate working without being in constant pain. smile.gif
  • Steve Schulze
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    Steve Schulze polycounter lvl 18
    I started to get a little carpal tunnel syndrome in my mouse hand recently and got the system admin at work to buy me one of those vertical mouses (mice?). It took me about a day of slightly overshooting where I wanted to click before I got used to it, but now I'm just as accurate as I was with the horizontal mouse and my wrist feels much better. It really is worth the slightly high price.
  • Pedro Amorim
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    skullbox: thanks for the heads up. i think that part about the shoulders is quite right. when i move my arms i feel less pain.

    im using only a tablet now. but in max i dont know how to set up the pan/rotate/zoom to work with the tablet. i was used to alt+mmb to rotate. and now i need to go to the arc rotate.
  • doc rob
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    doc rob polycounter lvl 19
    bitmap, I map it to the keyboard. Alt-C is what I use, but anything will work. Holding down the middle mouse button to arc-rotate is typically a big strain on your hand/wrist. I also have pan mapped to the spacebar. A quick right click (on the tablet pen) will get you back to select/move mode.

    All, Microsoft also has a slightly vertical mouse that they make:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KA7...d=1AQWEX2VMNAAX

    http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=086
  • aesir
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    aesir polycounter lvl 18
    Just reading stuff like this always kind of freaks me out and makes my hand start hurting.

    THink im gonna have to switch up how i do things.
  • Pedro Amorim
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    does anyone know a way to swith the navigation keys in max?
    i mean. substitute alt+mmb to alt+lmb kinda like maya

    becase pressing the mmb strains my wrist like hell
  • Wells
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    Wells polycounter lvl 18
    I can't believe how much my wrist thanks me when I turn my mouse on its side. I just might have to get one of those crazy looking ones. My art lead has one, but it thought it was just because he's a fag tongue.gif
  • Pedro Amorim
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    so i've using this program..

    http://www.workrave.org/screenshots/windows/

    and its really cool. its sets a timer to go off every 40minutes. then you have to rest for like 10 minutes. they show you exercises to do and stuff. very usefull

    and its free
  • gauss
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    gauss polycounter lvl 18
    Just wanted to stop and chime in that after a little tingly feelings in one hand, I went with an MS Ergo 4000 (4000!) and I'm quite happy with it. Raises the wrists quite comfortably and seems to be less of a disruption to typing than the older ergonomic keyboards I've tried.
    That and it feels like some sort of awesome control panel to rest your hands on. I know that's what a keyboard is, technically, but it sure feels pretty science fictiony smile.gif

    and thanks bitmap, i tend to forget to break regularly, will try that one out.
  • Wells
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    Wells polycounter lvl 18
    I've always found the broken [ergo] keyboards to be much more comfortable - they also raise my typing speed considerably [consequently increasing my attractiveness to the ladies]. That one looks pretty slick gauss, I do believe I'll pick one up. I've been meaning to replace this little brick at work, though by now I've gotten used to typing on it again.
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