Education (university and work experience)
I have searched for threads on these things but I haven't had any joy.
Hey guys, I reached the point where I'm going to have to make some decisions about my future and what I want to do, I originally wanted to do something with games ever since I was in primary school, but forgot about it until about 6 months ago (I'm 22 now). I left High School with 2 A's and a B at A-level, with the view of going to university to do something arty/designy. after under-estimating my potential I applied for a local uni that was way below my expectations, and when they sent me the mind numbing first assignment (after too much education) I couldn't believe how inane it was, so left before even beginning. I worked for two years as a Sign Maker, learning ins and out of vector graphics etc, and as a purveyor of ultimate evil...oops,I mean,a nightclub photographer. So I went back to education, with a view of going to a good university to do 3D stuff, specifically with games (I enjoy all 3d, but modelling etc for games in particular), I'm now doing another 2 A levels which I'm on course for High B/As and evening courses (on in 3d animation, which is what got me interested), I might have chance to fit another humanity A level in next year too, and life classes and stuff to help with the weak points in my art.
potentially leaving me with 5/6 Good A levels, A portfolio in traditional art and photography which I've been gathering. That's enough of the background, Now, the questions.
1. I have the grades/ability to go on most courses in the UK (university wise), so is it worth me going on one? or, after next year, try to get on the work ladder and advance up, learning as I do now in my spare time?
I can see advantages of both, I like structured briefs/work for me to work through methodically, but I also like to research the stuff myself, sometimes finding I go in different directions all the time. so I'm not sure.
2. would taking a more academic course and still doing the art in my spare time be a reasonable option?
my first thoughts are that art is all I've ever been comparatively good at, and all I can really see myself doing, however it'd be nice to fall back on something... boring yet more secure.
3. how would I go about getting useful work experience in the industry?, for example over the summer?, has anyone done this at all??.
I feel that by reading these forums and looking around the net and seeing how all these amazing artists are doing things, you can learn lots, especially when you get people creating tutorials etc, so I'd like to go and see someone working to see how they handle their workflow etc.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, any threads that I may have missed etc,
Thanks in advance.
Hey guys, I reached the point where I'm going to have to make some decisions about my future and what I want to do, I originally wanted to do something with games ever since I was in primary school, but forgot about it until about 6 months ago (I'm 22 now). I left High School with 2 A's and a B at A-level, with the view of going to university to do something arty/designy. after under-estimating my potential I applied for a local uni that was way below my expectations, and when they sent me the mind numbing first assignment (after too much education) I couldn't believe how inane it was, so left before even beginning. I worked for two years as a Sign Maker, learning ins and out of vector graphics etc, and as a purveyor of ultimate evil...oops,I mean,a nightclub photographer. So I went back to education, with a view of going to a good university to do 3D stuff, specifically with games (I enjoy all 3d, but modelling etc for games in particular), I'm now doing another 2 A levels which I'm on course for High B/As and evening courses (on in 3d animation, which is what got me interested), I might have chance to fit another humanity A level in next year too, and life classes and stuff to help with the weak points in my art.
potentially leaving me with 5/6 Good A levels, A portfolio in traditional art and photography which I've been gathering. That's enough of the background, Now, the questions.
1. I have the grades/ability to go on most courses in the UK (university wise), so is it worth me going on one? or, after next year, try to get on the work ladder and advance up, learning as I do now in my spare time?
I can see advantages of both, I like structured briefs/work for me to work through methodically, but I also like to research the stuff myself, sometimes finding I go in different directions all the time. so I'm not sure.
2. would taking a more academic course and still doing the art in my spare time be a reasonable option?
my first thoughts are that art is all I've ever been comparatively good at, and all I can really see myself doing, however it'd be nice to fall back on something... boring yet more secure.
3. how would I go about getting useful work experience in the industry?, for example over the summer?, has anyone done this at all??.
I feel that by reading these forums and looking around the net and seeing how all these amazing artists are doing things, you can learn lots, especially when you get people creating tutorials etc, so I'd like to go and see someone working to see how they handle their workflow etc.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, any threads that I may have missed etc,
Thanks in advance.
Replies
Do some research of fine art courses and that will give you a good solid foundation which you can use to get into whatever sort of art job takes your fancy - should game art not be your thing, you could always go in for design, illustration or any number of things a good fine art degree would bring.
I would avoid courses specifically tailored towards "games" because they always tend to be catch-all, low-quality affairs with poor teaching standards and little guidance or experience to be gained from them.
Much better to take a course which gives you a solid foundation in the basics, which can be applied to whichever field catches your interest later on.
I'd probably avoid going straight into work and skipping university unless you really need the money and nothing else right now.
University is a great chance to play around without any real risks, you can learn a lot and gain a degree which will open a lot of doors for you in future.
It's harder to get an internship or temporary games job over a summer because they usually look for more long term employees, but it's not unheard of (I got a junior artist position up in Dundee in for 3 months in 2004).
So yeah, do a lot of research onto any courses which sound interesting, ask around and check out how the students rated them, and see what their curriculum involves. You don't want to be stuck learning something you're not interested in for 3 years and paying for it.
Just my thoughts, hope that helps a bit
By the way I just finished a class taught by Dabu in this forum and it was a really great experience. My finals didn't turn out very good, but Dabu has been a great teacher and my classmates were awesome. Classes like these are really encouraging and give me lots of inspiration and connection. You really have to consider carefully how the learning environments will be.
And I agree with MoP, some of my most helpful classes were not computer classes actually, but were my charcoal drawing and oil/acrilic painting classes. Understanding how to draw and paint really bumped my poor 3D skills up by a ton. Not to mention there are many many cool digital art pieces being made by tradition fine artists these days.
I would avoid courses specifically tailored towards "games" because they always tend to be catch-all, low-quality affairs with poor teaching standards and little guidance or experience to be gained from them.
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QFT! I feel like I got burned and payed quite a bit of money for my school. Most of what I have learned was either self taught or on forums like PC. Game school was a waste of money for me.
Take some CGSociety courses for what you are interested in, anything is better the University if you aren't concerned with the experience or the all around education. I just graduated from a highly regarded art school and the best course I took was a foundation Drawing 1 over the summer because I transferred from architecture and skipped my entire foundation year.
Once you get some experience, a BFA or degree isn't nearly as important. From what I hear, it is important for getting in the door, as it shows committment and some experience. If you can put together a strong portfolio, combined with your real-world experience and prior jobs, I don't think you should have a trouble getting a job as a game artist.
A degree is all well and good, but it'll be 3 or 4 years then until you enter the industry, and you'll likely have alot of debt. Its personally not a situation I'd want to be in. My suggestion would be to spend the next year creating a portfolio. If you have the background, and work hard, the good game art will come naturally.
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Also if you are intrested in animation take classes to get good at animation, I took a couple 2d animation classes and I think they help both maintain your drawing abilitiy and learning timing the good old fashioned way. You obviously will want to learn how to do it in 3d as well since its a different ball game, but same principals.
The point with those schools is you get out what you put in. A lot of the instructors are older vets with not much next gen tech stuff but there are a few. Though like any education you get out of it like you put in and I can't stress that enough.
I would do a lot of traditional art. I started with traditional art, sketches, etc and while in school moved more towards 3d and that type of stuff because I enjoyed it more but my 2d skills are still pretty solid and you can see a huge difference in people with 2d skills and not with 3d work most of the time.
Just do a lot of research and find out whats the most beneficial decision for you for your education and your finances.
Having a degree is superb because as well helping to protect your future, it will show a prospective company that you were able to complete a series of tasks and deadlines set by others - and to an ability level godd enough to get award a degree.
-any art colleges/universities i should be considering? in the uk or otherwise?
There was also a LOT of more or less useless fluff that wouldn't directly help you get a job.
I second was Jesse says about a traditional art degree. That stuff has a long and strong foundation that can be applied to different fields. It would be good to learn that at college, and keep up with cg self teaching.
Fine art classes have become a joke too. There are to many professors out there that think working in a realistic style is uncreative and don't bother to explain how to produce good colors in paintings and don't explain to students how to make use of the media. So be careful.
Alex
Self teaching is great - it shows a company that you had the skills to pick up something by yourself, showing initiative.
Having a degree is superb because as well helping to protect your future, it will show a prospective company that you were able to complete a series of tasks and deadlines set by others - and to an ability level godd enough to get award a degree.
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Agreeing with this. Having been entirely self-taught in 3d, I consider it one of my strongest assets, if only because I know that my skills are future-proofed by my ability to quickly adapt and learn new techniques and software.
Having said that, I do have a degree, but its in design (with a heavy focus on printing...ugh) and business management (I'm a "multidisciplinary studies" major, which is pretty much choose your own adventure.) Still, the piece of paper means that I won't have to worry about missing opportunities because I don't have a degree, and the classes that I took give me a wider range of skills and understanding that I wouldn't have gotten with a 4 year fine art degree. Although I do wish I had more studio critiques, polycount and the like provide plenty of feedback
But I agree some classes in traditional classes would be helpful in learning. I sometimes wish I would have taken some. So heres my personal breakdown
School education needed = 0%
Traditional art school (perspective anatomy drafting architecture) = could all be helpful
School focused on game art or game design = Money pit.
Ive been thinking that if I quit school Ill have a lot more time to just to do personal projects and get my portfolio looking better. If I don't Ill be spending almost all my time doing online gen ed classes for another year. Ive almost made up my mind on quitting but wanted to know if any of you thought I would benefit from finishing.
Bumping this up because I have a similar situation. I'm currently in school and have obtained a job in the industry. So now I'm doing school and 32 hour work weeks at the same time and I don't have time for anything else. My school projects are looking bad because I don't have enough anytime to work on them so my portfolio is suffering.
Ive been thinking that if I quit school Ill have a lot more time to just to do personal projects and get my portfolio looking better. If I don't Ill be spending almost all my time doing online gen ed classes for another year. Ive almost made up my mind on quitting but wanted to know if any of you thought I would benefit from finishing.
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Nate I know you personally and trust me I thought about leaving school many times when I was there. BUT how much money have you already thrown at that school just to throw it all away and not have that degree? Yeah true your life is hectic as hell right now but it's for a short amount of time and then you will have your degree and no matter what that's a huge thing in life.
I would stay in school. BUT... I understand the other side as well.
But furthermore, If you ever want to try working abroad ramj, you'll want that degree. You'll have a much, much tougher time getting a job in the US, Canada or wherever without it.
But having that degree, especially as close as you are to being finished, can open more doors for you in the future.
What if 5 or 10 years from now you decide you want to do something else? Or move up to a different position at another company that wants people with degrees?
Having your degree under your belt might not seem like it's a huge door opener, but for as much as you have already invested, and as good as your stuff is, you could really take that to the bank by the time you graduate.
I would lower the hours, or take fewer classes, but don't stop going, especially as young as you are. It's sooo hard for people to get motivated to go back to school once they have been out for a long time.
Anyhow, just my 2.5 cents.
Alex
Good for you for sticking it out Nate. Now just start working on some kick ass pieces.
This is my last week though...I showed em how to turn a 3 year degree into a 4-year ;D
Actually I was feeling the strain too. I didn't have mommy and daddy paying my bills, and I didn't wanna pay my loans for the rest of my life like my old man does...so I cut it down to 3-4 classes per quarter.
And Nate -- If you aren't taking those Gen-Eds online, you should for the last few quarters. They are a joke.
Grumpy? Wait till this week is over and I stand next to a bunch of clown-shoes who half-assed their way through this school and got the same degree I did. Some of my bitterness will recede when I don't have to watch more dread presentations by people who flushed $80,000 down the drain.
That's just a few less applicants I gotta worry about!
My 25 cents worth:
- Most schools are crap.
- It's a weird dynamic, almost everyone I have ever talked to that has come out on the other side of a degree has said it wasn't worth the money and time they put into it BUT they are glad they have it.
- Most students come to the experience of higher learning with the attitude of I'm paying this much I demand a degree the only thing I should have to do is wait. Schools cow down to consumerism more and more letting their standards slide, hurting the people who actually want to learn. Especially hurting those who don't coast in on daddies dime.
- Guild Hall is about the only school worth its weight.
What matters is that you walk into an interview with a good set of skills and a great portfolio, how you get there is up to you. Just don't think any of it is handed to you. I look at a degree like a mechanic looks at tools, you can use it to scratch your nuts or you can fix your car with it, your call.
What matters is that you walk into an interview with a good set of skills and a great portfolio, how you get there is up to you. Just don't think any of it is handed to you. I look at a degree like a mechanic looks at tools, you can use it to scratch your nuts or you can fix your car with it, your call.
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Quoted For Truth,
I have found schools to be entirely overpriced for no good reason. I can't speak for all schools though. I payed a great deal of money to go to school where a learned very little.
I learned the most from practice and polycount. However like many people have said before, graduating from school shows that you can hit deadlines. If you turn school into a personal thing and make it a point to deliver exceptional quality (regardless of instructors underwhelming requirements) on time you'll gain a lot.