Help on game development.
Hi,
My name is Jorge and I am new to game development. I am currently in school for programming and hope to learn as much about the 3D side of things as I can by the time I finish. I do understand that a team is usually required to complete a game but for now I just want to gain informaton about certain aspects. I want to make a GTA style game. I'm fairly good at modeling, texturing and animating characters, props, etc. but when it comes to modeling a city I'm unsure about the approach. Can anyone give me any tips, techniques, or advice on building a small city?
My name is Jorge and I am new to game development. I am currently in school for programming and hope to learn as much about the 3D side of things as I can by the time I finish. I do understand that a team is usually required to complete a game but for now I just want to gain informaton about certain aspects. I want to make a GTA style game. I'm fairly good at modeling, texturing and animating characters, props, etc. but when it comes to modeling a city I'm unsure about the approach. Can anyone give me any tips, techniques, or advice on building a small city?
Replies
Anyways, for building a city the best tip I could give is to do everything modularly. That means make it so that you have a bunch of pieces of buildings you can piece together like lego blocks quickly so that you can make a city with some variation fairly quickly.
You'll learn about reuse of textures and how to flesh out a scene using modular building blocks of wall sections, road sections, roofs, shop fronts etc, then fill out the scene with details like trees, telephone poles, bins, benches.
On a game with a large map you will typically have a lot of artists working on sections of the map. The artists will stop every now and then to make sure that their section lines up with their neighbouring parts - often one artist will take ownership of two map sections for a few weeks to stitch the join together. The other artist can spend that time refining textures or working on a whole other chunk of map.
All F.A.C.T.
So start small!
No, not as one mesh. Model a road section. Model a pavement section. Model all the possible joins - build a big library, like a train set.
Then you just stick them together to lay out your city, remembering to build slopes, hills, bridges.
Add buildings as you go, using he same technique - a section of wall becomes an entire wall, becomes a building. Add a roof. Modular. Build trims and steps and fences. Then build several buildings in this way so that you have a library of buildings. Take parts from some and bolt them onto the others.
Now, ignore the big city building part, and go and build a single street like in this thread: http://boards.polycount.net/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=172123&an=0&page=0#Post172123
I'm saying that you DON"T build a single mesh. You build and textures lots of meshes and put them together.
You'd weld all the parts together to prevent seams, but you build them as modular blocks to begin with.
There is no breakdown, since there are no rules, but it costs more memory and processing power to deal with textures than with geometry, so its better to model one nice half bit of road and texture it, then flip it. The same for the kerb.
Paving is a good example - build 3 pavement sections and texture the all so that they are similar, but slightly different. Make them so that you can place them together in any random order and then they will work.
Thats pretty rude Rick. lol This seems like a pretty common response to noobs so I'm use to it. Some people just don't pick things up quickly Rick. After a little research, I do understand the concept of building in modular blocks now. I think.
As far as texturing having no rules,
"You've got a disparity in your polycount and texture resolution - the polycount is about the same as one of the PSP titles, but the texture sizes are bigger than most PS2 titles. For that polycount, you'd be much better off using more and smaller textures"
this comment seems to imply you go by something. Wether it be a most commonly used rule or a personal one. I mean, if his poly count was PSP than what are PSP texture sizes? If helping me is an irritation then I wouldn't mind being directed to some tutorials or someone else. Thanks for your advice so far though.
"Can someone move this to 2D section?"
Thats pretty rude Rick. lol This seems like a pretty common response to noobs so I'm use to it.
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only if you're a noob who post in the wrong section...
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Some people just don't pick things up quickly Rick. After a little research, I do understand the concept of building in modular blocks now. I think.
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for examples of this, think oblivion/morrowind, their dungeons, caves, buildings...etc were all built like puzzle pieces, that way you cna reuse the same models to make different areas.
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As far as texturing having no rules,
"You've got a disparity in your polycount and texture resolution - the polycount is about the same as one of the PSP titles, but the texture sizes are bigger than most PS2 titles. For that polycount, you'd be much better off using more and smaller textures"
this comment seems to imply you go by something. Wether it be a most commonly used rule or a personal one. I mean, if his poly count was PSP than what are PSP texture sizes? If helping me is an irritation then I wouldn't mind being directed to some tutorials or someone else. Thanks for your advice so far though.
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he means keep all apects of a model in spec. if the polycoutn is low enough to work on the psp then would you design the textures to work on a xbox360? would you get a 5,000+ tri/poly model a 128x128 texture? the answer is, hopefully not. if you are having to deal with a low poly count the chances are you won't have too much texture memory to work with either, and the opposite is true too.
Rick, what is Gobsmacked? lol
Jarrod1937, you said: "if the polycoutn is low enough to work on the psp then would you design the textures to work on a xbox360? would you get a 5,000+ tri/poly model a 128x128 texture?" which basically repeated Rick when he said "You've got a disparity in your polycount and texture resolution - the polycount is about the same as one of the PSP titles, but the texture sizes are bigger than most PS2 titles. For that polycount, you'd be much better off using more and smaller textures"
Like I asked Rick, What guidelines are you going by that gave you this math?
You guys make it seem like it's top secret to tell me something like "lowpoly objects like mailboxes, park benches, telephone poles, etc usually use a texture size of 128x128 and highpoly objects like main characters, vehicles, houses, etc usually use a texture size of 512x512 and world terrains usually use a texture size of 1024x1024, etc.
Anyway, this got away from my original question (how to model a city). 1)I asked about this, Rick posted a link, 2)I looked at the model in the link, 3)the model's street, sidewalk, and walls seem to be "1" 29 polygon mesh with the telephone poles, street lights, road blocks, and tree placed on top, 4) I then got confused because Rick said "No, not as one mesh. Model a road section. Model a pavement section. Model all the possible joins - build a big library, like a train set. and "a section of wall becomes an entire wall, becomes a building. Add a roof. Modular. Build trims and steps and fences." Maybe I'm blind to what a modular block is. It almost sounds like your saying "build 1 polygon then texture it, build another, texture it, then so on and when I'm done weld all the parts(polygons) together. Anyway, theres always school. Thanks
what rick means is like you are building with lego , you make a plane, texture it, than clone around , cholden had a very good tutorial about it ill try to fetch it.
Like I asked Rick, What guidelines are you going by that gave you this math?
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I'm sure when a lot of people tell you this, they're going by experience with working on consoles. There's a thread in the archives with PSP / DS specs, and I think if you did a search you'd find one on PS2 specs.
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You guys make it seem like it's top secret to tell me something like "lowpoly objects like mailboxes, park benches, telephone poles, etc usually use a texture size of 128x128 and highpoly objects like main characters, vehicles, houses, etc usually use a texture size of 512x512 and world terrains usually use a texture size of 1024x1024, etc.
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It's all relative. Why would you want to use a 512x512 texture for an object as small as a mailbox?
I have advice to offer, DaFuture - you need an attitude adjustment. If you want help or insight or whatever, don't complain that replies aren't served to you on a silver platter. You're asking extremely specific questions without understanding basic general principles. There is no "the size for mailbox textures is..." answer because that sort of thing changes on the type of game, the hardware that the game will run on, what the art style is, etc. It's like asking someone what the temperature will be this July 10th; it's not a "secret" because they won't tell you exactly how many degrees it will be - they don't really know. The best anyone can do is give you a reasonable range and tell you to wait and see.
Finally, Rick is a resident of Scotland. If he were aiming to be rude, I believe you'd have known.
Ninjas, how is 2D the correct section when we're talking about modeling, texturing, and welding parts of a city together?
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Because rick typed the forum name in shorthand. the ACTUAL correct place this should be is "2d and 3d Discussion".
General Discussion is normally used for things that dont fall into the category of games, or general discussions about specific games. For technical discussion on development of games and assets, you would use the 2d and 3d Discussion forum.
That should clear things up a bit.
Finally, Rick is a resident of Scotland. If he were aiming to be rude, I believe you'd have known.
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not only that, a twisted irish dwarf living in scotland. Brrrr.
http://www.rsart.co.uk/2006/11/20/how-many-polygons-in-a-piece-of-string/
This article might also be good reading.
http://www.ericchadwick.com/examples/provost/byf1.html
Basically, you need to work with runtime-profiling tools (ala Nvidia's NVPerfHUD or similar) to constantly check your assets on the target hardware, that's the only way to really know if you're exceeeding your vertex/texture limits.
Cybroxide, [ QUOTE ]
I think rick was pointing out my thread to show the scope of what you should be doing when you start building a city.
[/ QUOTE ]You're right but his mistake was speaking to a noob about modular building and then directing me to a link that didn't show that technique. Your street section was already put together so all I could see was one 29 polygon mesh with objects on top. Nice work by the way.
fmnoor, [ QUOTE ]
It's all relative. Why would you want to use a 512x512 texture for an object as small as a mailbox?
[/ QUOTE ]It's NOT all realtive to a noob. Therefore, replies like "hey DaFuture, it's not an industry standard but I usaully put ?x? textures on highpoly objects and ?x? textures on lowpoly objects"
Now vermilion, [ QUOTE ]
1) Being so touchy that you take offense even when none is offered is a great way to get started in an artistic field
[/ QUOTE ] You've obviously overlooked all the sarcasm being posted.
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2)you need an attitude adjustment.
[/ QUOTE ] Clearly you need an interpretation adjustment. ALL my posts are manorly spoken and contain "thank yous" and "lols". How did you get a bad attitude out of them?
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If you want help or insight or whatever, don't complain that replies aren't served to you on a silver platter.
[/ QUOTE ]Although I would love to eat off of a silver platter, this has NOTHING to do with that. It's how well you explain things when giving someone advice. A teacher CAN'T reach EVERY student with the SAME words. Therefore, a different approach or school of thought is needed. Thats why I said:
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If helping me is an irritation then I wouldn't mind being directed to some tutorials or someone else.
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There is no "the size for mailbox textures is..." answer because that sort of thing changes. The best anyone can do is give you a reasonable range and tell you to wait and see.
[/ QUOTE ]I understand this but a game company thats making a game for say... the Xbox 360 won't tell it's artists "you're on your own with texture sizes and poly counts". There WILL be limits and guidelines that the company expects their artists to follow. People that give shallow advice are stingy with what they learned works best or really lack the knowledge to pass on.
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Finally, Rick is a resident of Scotland. If he were aiming to be rude, I believe you'd have known.
[/ QUOTE ]Oooo, don't want to piss Rick off then huh? Look man, I wasn't offended. I said he was rude in a jokingly way thats why I put "lol" at the end.
AstroZombie, Be a leader not a follower!
Slum, thanks for clearing up the 2D, 3D misunderstanding. I wish you would've came sooner. lol
Finally, This whole thing was suppose to be about modeling a city and NOTHING else. Rick, thanks alot for what advice you did give me. I just got lost when you spoke of modular building with no examples of that. Please call off your henchmen! lol and please don't fuck'n knack me. lol
Why do people who do know ALWAYS attack people who don't know when they once didn't know either? Anyway, for those who did give advice, Thank you and for those who didn't......
Why do people who do know ALWAYS attack people who don't know when they once didn't know either?
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Welcome to Polycount!
People attack "noobs" as you seem to address yourself, because they ask questions that have been asked a million times before on these forums then crack the shits because of the answers they recieve.
If you don't know what modular modelling is... Try google or the search feature in these forums. The advice given to you is generally some of the best advice you could get from anywhere. Most of the guys here are industry guys who've been doing this shit for years. You definately have more than enough information to actually get started, pimp your work and you'll get more advice as you're doing stuff.
-caseyjones
Ideally for a GTA style game you will have a LOT of different textures, so pushing to meet 128's and 256's is highly suggested for a current gen game engine (PSP's would use something like 32x32 for how much they'd have to pack into it). 512's could be acceptable for things that have a high chance of being seen a lot, or that you really want to shine in detail (characters, some vehicles, etc).
In reality it is just a matter of trial and error, and how good of an artist you are. The artists above (Rick, Astro, Vermillion...shit all of the people who have posted above!) are all very talented and would be able to put a great amount of detail into something without requiring a large texture size merely due to the experience.
Finally, while it was a misunderstanding to say '2D discussion', take that extra time and look at the actual sections on this board. Had you of spent some more time researching the actual answers you hoped to achieve, you would have pointed yourself to the proper section right away instead of wasting your time bantering that you were misinformed.
We understand the situation you're in because we all were at some point, so just keep it in mind when asking questions that people are helping you for free. You said it yourself, you can learn this stuff from others on the internet. However, you're not paying us like you are for your programming course so make note of that when hoping for a lesson on how to build a city like the hundreds of employees of a AAA company did. Not many will spend all their free time teaching someone something, but many will be willing to point you in the right direction (as shown above)...
P.S. Casey's advice is the best...Google and searching the forums is simple, and it refrains people from making huge posts to figure something that can be relatively simple out.
Also, in your first post you mention that you are fairly good at modeling, texturing and animating characters and props. Given that one could assume you aren't a "noob" and don't need someone to hold your hand.
Sorry to break back into this thread, planned to leave it alone, but seriously, Verm was in the right.
"If helping me is an irritation then I wouldn't mind being directed to some tutorials or someone else"
[/ QUOTE ] (still hope to see those links by the way). Anyway, I apologize to everyone again.
well, here is something, sorry if this is repeat.
Modular is very good. But think big. Don't build a city one building at a time. Set up a terrain, geographical details; Is this city near water, is there hills, what kind of climate is it? Then what kind of history does the place have: Is in newly developed? Are most of the large structures modern, like there was a large economic boom 40 years ago. Or is the area extremely old with a rich history. Is it spread out or tightly built on top of itself. What is the industry of the place? How did it expand? Is it a tourism place? A place of the arts? What kind of Culture does this fictional city have? Start setting up nieghbourhoods; The rich area out of town, the Developed business area, the industrial area, the slums.
Serious CITY PLANNING and HISTORY before you can even ask a stupid question like the size of a texture.
Technical things you are asking are very dependent on hardware and what the thing is designed to run on. While important GAME MECHANICS and DESIGN are no different from Duke3d to Unreal 2007
Also: you are a fucking little asshole who obviously wont take any advice so just forget everything I said and mash your keyboard with your forehead or something.
AstroZombie, Be a leader not a follower!
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Just as soon as you start being something other than a dumbshit.
Is this guy giving anyone else Tubboy flashbacks?
First I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended or upset. Tulkamir, I certainly don't want to be a total ass and didn't mean to if I did. I apologize. You see, before I posted anything in any forum I read alot of what other people had to say about what I'm curious about to try to eliminate asking because I've seen too many people get attacked for asking noob-like questions. I guess you can say I was in flinch-mode. I tried to avoid posting but sometimes there is nothing else to do but ask and hope you don't get pounced on. I've worn google out looking for answers to my questions. Alot get answered and others don't because I'm looking in the wrong place. So thats when I ask someone else who might know and hope for good advice. I'm no pro at modeling but know enough to build game characters and props. I chose programming because I want to give games life. I DON't know how to build a world, city, or level thats why I said I'm fairly good. Anyway, Kovac, when I read the first part of your post a bright spotlight shined on me and angels started singing. Thats a little more helpful. I agree 100% that there are poeple here who have knowledge, thats why I posted here with confidence and with that I want to thank all the guys who took the time to post advice. I kinda felt the thread getting off track thats why I said in my 5th post [ QUOTE ]
"If helping me is an irritation then I wouldn't mind being directed to some tutorials or someone else"
[/ QUOTE ] (still hope to see those links by the way). Anyway, I apologize to everyone again.
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we're not mean to noobs, we're means to noobs who act like ass's... none were offensive to your questions, but your responses to our answers were. if you want advice and help, be open to it, otherwise its just a waste of everyones time.
You can try to disguise your self loathing for making an asshat out of yourself by lashing out at those that try to help you but really we all see through it, so drop the tude.
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You've obviously overlooked all the sarcasm being posted.
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Pardon us for not being able to understand your writing style, given the 6 posts we have to judge your personality by. You might want to get to know people and let them get to know you before handing out the back handed complements and scarcasam, just a suggestion.
This thread could have been of great help to others in your situation but now its just on its way to being locked, thanks to you, WTG!
Cybroxide,
Quote:
I think rick was pointing out my thread to show the scope of what you should be doing when you start building a city.
You're right but his mistake was speaking to a noob about modular building and then directing me to a link that didn't show that technique. Your street section was already put together so all I could see was one 29 polygon mesh with objects on top. Nice work by the way.
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Rick pointed you to that thread because the person who created that art faced the same challenge you did about approaching city design modularly. The final resolution to the thread was "you have some good art, modular design is a good way to go in the future, think about your texture sheets". I think Rick was hoping you could come to the same conclusion IF you read the thread, since you didn't seem to be getting it.
honestly, i sometime swear some users of this board sit there positively WILLING new users to enter with the slightest hint of misjudged attitude, so they can enter post after post of increasingly aggressive retorts while sitting comfortably on the moral high ground. Retorts to an apologetic post made half a page ago, i might add
It's only the continual flaming that gets the threads locked. When the o.p. admits he's in the wrong and wants to move on, would it not just be a good fuckin' idea to do so?
As far as I can see the lot of you acted a LOT worse than he did and if you act this way towards someone that makes a bad impression, but apologizes, I'd never want to work with you. He's hopefully learned a lesson, but what the fuck fellas?
DaFuture, I suggest you read up on what game design is, its different aspects, then make an educated decision as to which field you'd really like to go in. Making something 'like GTA' is a good ambition to have, but start smaller. Learn the fundamentals then go from there. There's a lot of good tutorials out there - many of our regulars here have sites and blogs with good tutorials and theory, poke around to see what you can find. Think of a 3D app you'd like to use (Max, Maya, XSI, etc.) and learn about it. Google's your friend on this one.
Also, check your attitude before joining any new social group, whether it be online or otherwise. Coming in here with that attitude won't get you far, as I am sure you can now tell. We've all been around the block a few times so if you're asking us odd questions to which you may not like the answer, consider our experiences and don't think we're trying to attack you.
I normally consider myself friendly to new users, but something just set me off in a bad way =/ I'll try and be more constructive in the future.
I'm really surprised by all the belittling done in this thread by our regulars. As danr said he came in here with the wrong attitude (he could be young, you know), said some uncalled for things, then apologized once he realized how things are done around here. There's a lot of popular forums out there where their regulars treat new people like complete assholes, which he might have had before thus giving him the attitude he had. Does it make it right? No, probably not.
As far as I can see the lot of you acted a LOT worse than he did and if you act this way towards someone that makes a bad impression, but apologized, I'd never want to work with you. He's hopefully learned a lesson, but what the fuck fellas?
DaFuture, I suggest you read up on what game design is, its different aspects, then make an educated decision as to which field you'd really like to go in. Making something 'like GTA' is a good ambition to have, but start smaller. Learn the fundamentals then go from there. There's a lot of good tutorials out there - many of our regulars here have sites and blogs with good tutorials and theory, poke around to see what you can find. Think of a 3D app you'd like to use (Max, Maya, XSI, etc.) and learn about it. Google's your friend on this one.
Also, check your attitude before joining any new social group, whether it be online or otherwise. Coming in here with that attitude won't get you far, as I am sure you can now tell. We've all been around the block a few times so if you're asking us odd questions to which you may not like the answer, consider our experiences and don't think we're trying to attack you.
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i don't think my advice was too belittling, but more so straight to the point, don't you think? if my reply went to far then please tell me, i like to know if i am being an ass myself
"we're not mean to noobs, we're means to noobs who act like ass's... none were offensive to your questions, but your responses to our answers were. if you want advice and help, be open to it, otherwise its just a waste of everyones time."
p.s. i did see his apology and was wondering why vig was still so harsh, alwell though, this stuff happens (alot online). lets all accept eachothers apologies and move on.
jesus christ up a tree, talk about an overreaction
honestly, i sometime swear some users of this board sit there positively WILLING new users to enter with the slightest hint of misjudged attitude, so they can enter post after post of increasingly aggressive retorts while sitting comfortably on the moral high ground. Retorts to an apologetic post made half a page ago, i might add
It's only the continual flaming that gets the threads locked. When the o.p. admits he's in the wrong and wants to move on, would it not just be a good fuckin' idea to do so?
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true dat dan. However, someone such as yourself *always* comes along and slaps the wrists of the wrist slappers. Thus ensue more self righteous self satisfied posts written from an *even* higher moral highground redressing the balance and thus it continues, ad infinitum until lockage.
We shall call it the great polycount infinite loop of chastisement.
Can someone move this to 2d Discussion?
I'm saying that you DON"T build a single mesh.
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Now it may not be nothing to others but to me it felt like he was saying "Can someone get this dumbass out of here?"
Even with that my imediate response was: [ QUOTE ]
Thats pretty rude Rick. lol This seems like a pretty common response to noobs so I'm use to it. Some people just don't pick things up quickly Rick. After a little research, I do understand the concept of building in modular blocks now. I think.
[/ QUOTE ]Notice the lol and me admitting that I didn't pick it up quickly. Nothing negative from me so far. I then ended my post with:[ QUOTE ]
If helping me is an irritation then I wouldn't mind being directed to some tutorials or someone else. Thanks for your advice so far though.
[/ QUOTE ]Now comes Ninjas. Clear sarcasm. Nothing to make me cry though but also nothing helpful to the original subject. Rick was Gobsmacked and then comes Jarrod1937 with sarcasm towards me posting in the wrong section. General Discussion is obviously the first place to go until you GET redirected. Still didn't get redirected at this point. My reply to this was actually laughing (lol) at Rick when he said Gobsmacked and ended that reply with: [ QUOTE ]
Anyway, this got away from my original question (how to model a city). 1)I asked about this, Rick posted a link, 2)I looked at the model in the link, 3)the model's street, sidewalk, and walls seem to be "1" 29 polygon mesh with the telephone poles, street lights, road blocks, and tree placed on top, 4) I then got confused because Rick said "No, not as one mesh. Model a road section. Model a pavement section. Model all the possible joins - build a big library, like a train set. and "a section of wall becomes an entire wall, becomes a building. Add a roof. Modular. Build trims and steps and fences." Maybe I'm blind to what a modular block is. It almost sounds like your saying "build 1 polygon then texture it, build another, texture it, then so on and when I'm done weld all the parts(polygons) together. Anyway, theres always school. Thanks
[/ QUOTE ]After a few helpful posts came Vermilion who felt I needed an attitude adjustment but my attitude never got out of hand up to this point. I even looked back to see what I might have said wrong but couldn't see what he saw. Then came the co-signing to Vermilion and Rick telling me He'll fuck'n knack me. Thats when I felt it was time to speak up. I then got welcomed to polycount, a helpful post by Kovac, then being called a total ass by Tulkamir. My first thought to that was "what the hell did I say that would make someone call me an ass"? Regardless who was wrong, I apologized. Right after my apology I get called a jerk and compare to someone who probably was a jerk. Then Jarrod1937 posts my apology and calls me an ass right after and then contradicts hiself by saying: [ QUOTE ]
p.s. i did see his apology and was wondering why vig was still so harsh,
[/ QUOTE ] You called me an ass "right" after my apology!
When I look at the whole thread it all makes me laugh because I remember reading this very same type of hostility being issued to other people who were new. It's like initiation for noobs. I do believe that it might be frustrating to hear new people asking questions they could easily look up but when a person doesn't know too much they spend numerous wasted hours looking in the wrong place so redirection is needed. Henceforth, noob questions. Anyway, I would much rather be directed to some tutorial links, books, or whatever could help my understanding than being advised by an easily irritated adviser. No hard feelings with me though. This is a forum on a computer. Everyone is tuff behind a keyboard. It's all funny how seriously some of you guys take these posts. If some of you are like this on a computer, I'd hate to work with you in person. All the people who did take the time to post advice, Thank you. You didn't waste your time. I WAS able to ignore most of the madness to hear what you had to say. All you smartasses, meet me outside when the bell rings! lol
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Then Jarrod1937 posts my apology and calls me an ass right after and then contradicts hiself by saying:
Quote:
p.s. i did see his apology and was wondering why vig was still so harsh,
You called me an ass "right" after my apology!
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i did not contrdict myself. vig was quite harsh (however he never saw the apology), i simply said you were acting like an ass, which you were, but i accepted your apology and then offered to help you further person to person through aim...
edit: to add oto this reply:
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Quote:
Can someone move this to 2d Discussion?
I'm saying that you DON"T build a single mesh.
Now it may not be nothing to others but to me it felt like he was saying "Can someone get this dumbass out of here?"
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you're being wayy too sensitive, if you post in the wrong section you will always have people requesting the topic to be moved to the correct one. doesn't that make sense?
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After a few helpful posts came Vermilion who felt I needed an attitude adjustment but my attitude never got out of hand up to this point. I even looked back to see what I might have said wrong but couldn't see what he saw.
[/ QUOTE ] you do need a slight attitude change, you seem to take offense too easily, and then get all frustrated.
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Then came the co-signing to Vermilion and Rick telling me He'll fuck'n knack me.
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lol, you must not have a sense of humr, that was obviously meant in a non-serious way.
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It's all funny how seriously some of you guys take these posts.
[/ QUOTE ] this would just be too easy, no comment on this one...
The best way to learn around here is to try first, and then come back with screenshots of what you made. Then point out what you had problems with. Game art is really probably the hardest kind of art you can do, and so the main thing you need is to practice.
Most people in this business know that to make a game requires that programming and art be done for it. The reason you don't see more cross-over is because each one of these skills takes 100% of a person's attention to become good at it. That said, it is great to be familar with the basics of art creation.
My advice: start small-- make a park bench or a newspaper box for your city to at least get a feel for it.
____________________ <- This is the line where the drama stops.
If it spills over this line I say good day to this thread, tut tut GOOD DAY! heh. Now lets try and keep the train on track where ninjas delicately put it. This means no more recapping and quoting the "HORRIBLE" things people said.
To second what Ninjas said, trial and error is the best way to learn. If people don't fall over dead thinking its the most awesome mailbox in the world at least thank them for the crits they post and honestly take those crits to heart they will be posted to help you become a better artist not to rip you apart and make you feel 2 inches tall.
It sounds like you are still searching for your nitch in the industry so I would test drive both and see which one you like best. As Ninjas said each one takes 100% of a persons attention and crossing over is very hard to do. Its better to be 100% good at something than 50% good at two things. Especially when companies will hire you for just one thing or the other. Thats not to say knowing a little bit about the other departments isn't going to help because it will, just don't bother splitting all your time between two things, you'll go mad.
So quick recap without the drama:
1) Modular design, is key to making the most out of a level with the least amount of resources.
2) It's hard to straddle the fence, you might want to pick a major.
Any other questions about the industry (not pertaining to the drama)?
I was gobsmacked that you called me rude after I took the time, my FREE TIME, to consider your request and give you feedback on based on years of experience, based on shipped titles pertaining to your request.
And 'lol'? Fuck right off.