Dynamic Prop Creation
polycounter lvl 17
So, I met Chris Luckenbach a few months back. He graduated from the same college I am going to; I am going for a Game Degree. He works for Blizzard now, is made of flesh and blood, and that really insprired me.
I have never posted here but I figure many of you know best. I want to get into Dynamic Prop modeling and texturing for level designers. I have some Character and Weapon texturing under my belt as well, but I really want to work on environments.
The problem is what to do... so I did this over the break. I wanna make more stuff like this, and add it all together into a reel.
http://www.azureproductions.com/Files/Crystal.mov
What do you think? It is 670 polys with a 512 texture map (Diffuse, Self Illumination, and Opacity). Any comments, critiques or suggestions?
::EDIT::
Here is a picture. More to come later, as I make fixes.
I have never posted here but I figure many of you know best. I want to get into Dynamic Prop modeling and texturing for level designers. I have some Character and Weapon texturing under my belt as well, but I really want to work on environments.
The problem is what to do... so I did this over the break. I wanna make more stuff like this, and add it all together into a reel.
http://www.azureproductions.com/Files/Crystal.mov
What do you think? It is 670 polys with a 512 texture map (Diffuse, Self Illumination, and Opacity). Any comments, critiques or suggestions?
::EDIT::
Here is a picture. More to come later, as I make fixes.
Replies
Its a nice design simple and the animation works well. Quite mesmerising in fact.
My first thought is that it desperately needs some animated lighting. the crystals are glowing and with the smaller one's swirling around like that you're going to have a lot of change in the illumination of the rocks. Failing that, you could at least bleed the purple lighting across the sides of the columns a little bit.
The round base texture appears to be very low resolution when compared to the rest of the model. While you can often get away with this in level design, on a piece like this its probably best to have consistant texel density.
The other thing that stands out are the symbols which appear to be simply stuck on the rock. Perhaps this is how they're supposed to be, but they might look better if looked as though they'd been chiseled into the or applied to the surface with a metal border and rivets or something similar. They just seem a little nondescript at this stage.
I had done a gold metal border around the symbols, but it was washed out by the glow. I guess I need to make them thicker.
The light, was a hard one. I can do some really nice things in max as far as light goes. But in trying to make this look more like a Game Model, I don't expect a programmer to attach 5 lights to it. However, you are right, I could bleed the light around the edges a bit more.
Hopefully I will have an update for you soon.
-Andrew B. Chason
I -may- just be making up words, or not even know what I am talking about. But I am -fairly- sure that this is a term.
Any-who, Environmental Assets and Design are where I want to be.
-Andrew B. chason
- Prop Artists:
These guys get a list of assets(dumpsters, generators, burned out cars ect) and a deadline.
- level Artists:
People who carry out the overall designers goal for the level, they normally create the "hull" and place props in this world. Most of the time using a specific in house program such as Hammer or UnrealEd.
I honestly don't think prop art has splintered into a specialization yet. Thats not to say you can't create a job for yourself or the industry isn't moving that way, but I wouldn't check the listings and only apply for "dynamic" prop artists either.
It sounds like you are straddling the line between FX (animated spell effects ect) and props?
To use Marketing speak, you might want to sell yourself as "a prop artists who makes full use of animation to achieve realistic and interactive results". Instead of trying to carve out a nitch that isn't really there.
Getting back to the art.
- The crystals aren't reflecting. It depends on the engine the company is using as to what kind of reflections solution you can use. Right now your engine is the 3D app you are using. Show you know more about the material editor than just using the defuse slot. If you can show you have more knowledge about a given program than what they actually need that speaks well about your capability. Instead of trying to duplicate what they did 1-2 years ago in their last game you are demonstrating what they are working on for the game that is to come.
- The glow on the top of the stones is receiving quite a bit of pink glow, but the sides are not? You might want to add a pink light to the scene and bake that lighting into your texture. So instead of guessing where the lighting would be, you can have a more accurate guide to work off of, or just outright use the baked light.
- The textures on the crystals don't seem to accentuate the underlaying mesh detail. You could either shave a bunch of polys from the crystals and put that detail into the base, or work the crystal texture to make good use of the mesh. Judging by the examples of crystals I have seen in WoW and other blizzard games they are VERY simple, often just 4 sides. If you're thinking of getting in at Bliz you might want to think about doing things their way?
- The light is there but the glow isn't? The crystal texture doesn't really suggest that the crystals are actually glowing. Instead of painting with deep purple shadows I would suggest playing on the bright side.
- Think about adding a few dancing balls of light that are nothing more than alpha sprites, or facing planes.
If you manage to shave a few polys, and need some suggestions for details here are a few.
- Ivy, grass, flowers or other plant life. It helps give history and age to an object. You might even want to just draw some plant life on the base.
- Crystal Growths, kind of like moss, mushrooms or spores. Since crystals grow under certain conditions it might not be out of the norm to see small crystal growths on the base.
- Break one of the stones and scatter some rubble around. The old stand-by for prop artists. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to be cliche.
Also as a "posting art" side note, the world might run on broadband now, but it is still easier to view an image instead of a movie. Maybe I'm too "old school interweb" and should just get over it...
I was dumbing things down because the effects I first went for would not have gone well in a game like WoW (more like gears of war). But you are right. I will go with a shiny Crystal and a dynamic light.
Here are some of the changes that I am going to make:
Up the Detail on the Base.
Add Dirt and Vegetation.
-Carve- the runes in more (make it noticeable).
Re-add the Raytracing to the Crystals.
Re-add the Dynamic Lighting.
Remove the Transparency on the Crystals.
i would stay away from any fancy max/maya rendering techniques when showing off your stuff, unless it is used to achieve what you would want the asset to look like in-game.
The texture could use some work, why are all the edges dark? This thing seems to have some importance... could go with maybe some more engravings? all in all, the texture does not help the mesh out much, and the mesh is kinda cool. use the texture to show off the model, and the model to show off your texture. have the two work together.
I dont think the solution to the crystals is adding ray-tracing. I would start the crystal texture new, put less detail in it, and play with environment maps to get a specular/reflection you like.
by far the biggest suggestion i can make would be to figure out a way to not make all the edges dark like that, and cater the texture more to the model, and accenting its shapes.
I now have a Reflection Map, Specular, Diffuse, Self Illumination and Bump.
I don't see anything wrong with the Geometry of the Crystals, but I am willing to rework the textures.
I also found that the large glowing rune out front distracted the eye. It is much nicer now that it is set into the stone but not glowing.
There is a sprite with an Alpha Channel (set to additive) to make the large crystal, glow, more.
I wasn't aware that environmental art had fractured again and spawned another specialization? I could be wrong but most places only have two types of enviro-art guys.
- Prop Artists:
These guys get a list of assets(dumpsters, generators, burned out cars ect) and a deadline.
- level Artists:
People who carry out the overall designers goal for the level, they normally create the "hull" and place props in this world. Most of the time using a specific in house program such as Hammer or UnrealEd.
I honestly don't think prop art has splintered into a specialization yet. Thats not to say you can't create a job for yourself or the industry isn't moving that way, but I wouldn't check the listings and only apply for "dynamic" prop artists either.
[/ QUOTE ]
Honest to god in a few years Level Design is going to have positions for the person who uses the keyboard, one for the mouse and another guy for being harassed by the lead for being behind schedule.
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't aware that environmental art had fractured again and spawned another specialization? I could be wrong but most places only have two types of enviro-art guys.
- Prop Artists:
These guys get a list of assets(dumpsters, generators, burned out cars ect) and a deadline.
- level Artists:
People who carry out the overall designers goal for the level, they normally create the "hull" and place props in this world. Most of the time using a specific in house program such as Hammer or UnrealEd.
I honestly don't think prop art has splintered into a specialization yet. Thats not to say you can't create a job for yourself or the industry isn't moving that way, but I wouldn't check the listings and only apply for "dynamic" prop artists either.
[/ QUOTE ]
Honest to god in a few years Level Design is going to have positions for the person who uses the keyboard, one for the mouse and another guy for being harassed by the lead for being behind schedule.
[/ QUOTE ]
or
the person who uses the keyboard = prop artist
and another guy for being harassed by the lead for being behind schedule. = level artist.
hahahahhahahha.
best thing for you art.
get it looking good in realtime (even just in 3d apps window) this way youll learn a hell of a lot more than renders.
i very rarely render anything at work, its either in maya or in game, renders are mostly pointless in this bizzz
Honestly, Reflection Map, Specular, Diffuse, Self Illumination and Bump, are all acceptable in games and he would be missing out on great practice if he didn't use them. I'm telling you now the more you know about the material editor and how it works the better off you all will be. you can bury your heads in the sand and tell him to stay in 1999 and stick to just the defuse slot if you want but that is not where the industry is going.
I would totally agree that learning to paint a good defuse is critical to landing a job. A good defuse can cut down on any number of maps needed to achieve a particular look.
Someones training shouldn't stop there, the more people know the better their chances. It is also a nice way to earn respect and quickly advance when you walk in knowing more than the other artists around you, who have always been told ignore those fancy settings and doo-dads. When studios call people in they aren't looking for people who can work on the games they just finished they want people with the skills to work on the next game.
In an interview if they ask you if you can use an advanced technique and the difference is BS'ing your way through it or actually having the experience (even if its limited) is monumental.
Since it sounds like he wants to be more than your standard prop artist, he might be interested in learning more FX. Something I would suggest to anyone wanting to climb out of the trenches. Yes its a long hard battle to get in for some people but it doesn't stop once you're in.
It's looking great, it's 10 times better than what you originally had, and its game ready art so you're sitting pretty right now, nice work!
Looking forward to seeing more
http://www.mineralminers.com/images/phantom-quartz/polx/phqp178.jpg
http://www.llnl.gov/nif/images/crystals.jpg
http://www.playingzone.com/images/jeux/pc/burning_crusade_prev_sc8.jpg
http://www.worldofwarcraft.hu/images3/bc/screenshot/ss18.jpg
http://games.softpedia.com/screenshots/8-2238_2.jpg (ew clipping!)
http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/ffcc/ffcc-001.jpg
i dont think the yellow works too well in the center, it detracts and conflicts too much with the lighting and glows.
The other dark edges are on the up-right bricks, where the sides meet. It just doesnt seem to work well, and when you squint, you can almost see a wireframe. Some areas on the base may be too low-res, and are creating the large muddy dark cracks which i feel take away from it.
quick paintover of what i was talking about to illustrate my points a lil better:
http://bb.mooseskins.com/crystalthingie_po.jpg
(take the shape of the crystal with a grain of salt, was just futzin around).
thats all.
mooses paintover is nice, very dark crystal.
id definatly think about sprucing up the stone work,maybe think about it in several key materials;
- plain stone or block work
- details (maybe a carving or holes or sommit)
- trim, give the top and possibly the bottom edge some interest.
- damage, a nice bumpy bit for the chips and cracks.
what scale is this (on screen and next to character)?