University Courses
polycounter lvl 17
Hi, Im a student looking for university courses to gain qualifications and learn skills in game design. I ultimately aim to enter the industry as a texture artist. Can anybody reccomend courses or universities which would be good for me? 
Thanks a lot for your help!
H
Thanks a lot for your help!
H
Replies
An art degree would not be so good for me though, as my main motivation for studying game development at uni would be to learn about the industry and learn practical skills for use as a texture artist. I've seen a course on 'Game Art Design' at De Montfort university (leicester) (oops, I forgot to say im from England!) - The course is centered around 3D and 2D art for computer games, and is run in conjunction with Codemasters. Has anyone heard of this university before? Did anyone here study game design/development at uni?
Thanks for your help!
H
Software chagnes all the time but fundamentals remain the same.
Conventional art realy isnt my kinda thing, and I dont think I could do a degree in it without giving up after a few months
i am always a little skeptical towards "game art degree/diploma/courses"
game art is just another medium for artistic expression, you need to grasp fundamentals, the button clicking you can learn yourself..
Also remember that when you draw on computer you use a tablet and stylus that is pretty much a pen, you dont have a problem with that?
It's pretty sweet I heard Cliffy B went there
I've got a 3d degree, Computer Arts & Animation to be exact, luckily it involved a large amount of traditional training, almost 2 of the 3 years I spent there in fact, so it wasn't a total loss. My friend's sister is going to the school's new game degree and it seems they just took out a majority of the traditional art classes and replaced them with programming classes.
.S. I detest traditional 'Art' - well, not the art itself but the way it is taught. - I also have problems with handwriting, drawing and painting with brushes (weird double-jointed finger thing ftw!!:D) so my art is limited to spraypaint+stencil....sometimes just spraypaint
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How is it taught that offends you? Are you sure its not some preconceptions holding you back?
BTW If your after Game Desigining, then being a texture artists is not what you want to look into. You will need courses (as well as the art) in things from communication, creative writing, computer science, management, even such things as philosophy and psychology to really be an effective designer. As it is, you most likely will start out in testing.
P.S. I detest traditional 'Art' - well, not the art itself but the way it is taught. - I also have problems with handwriting, drawing and painting with brushes (weird double-jointed finger thing ftw!!:D) so my art is limited to spraypaint+stencil....sometimes just spraypaint
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This attitude will severely limit your ability to be a "texture artist" in the game industry. It also suggests that you lack both actual art skills AND academic skills ... both of which are needed to study game art at the university level.
Studying "game design" will not make you a game artist.
If you really want a career in game art, overcome what you percieve to be handicaps and become a good artist first and and a game artist second.
food for thought: when a school says "90% employment rate of graduates" they don't mean in the field, just that you have a job.
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Just to give exception to that quote. When Guildhall at SMU talks about 96% placement rate of graduates they ARE talking about placement in the game industry.
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food for thought: when a school says "90% employment rate of graduates" they don't mean in the field, just that you have a job.
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Just to give exception to that quote. When Guildhall at SMU talks about 96% placement rate of graduates they ARE talking about placement in the game industry.
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Yeah, Guildhall is pretty much the exception to everything when you look at the majority of game degrees.
You can't really paint or draw and conventional art is not your thing, but you want to be a texture artist? Good luck with that.
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Just how does someone land an artist position without having artistic skill or technical know how? If you are thinking that the degree is a garunteed industry job you'll have to think again. People don't hand jobs to people without tallent. The only thing the schooling will give you is a chance to work with the software and HONE your tallent in a structured setting. If you can structure your own life and deticate your time correctly you can get the needed skills on your own.
I don't see this working out either. "I'm not good at art, but I want to be employeed as an artist". Not knowing the technical side (software) and not even having a self taught traditional art background you are on very shakey ground. Esscentually you looking at a life time in QA =/
The only differance between those who can draw and those who can't is that the ones who can spent much more time developing thier artistic eye. It sounds like you want the job but don't want to put the work in to get the skills, so getting a degree is waste as it won't get you what you want, unless your goal is a job somewhere else and a mountain of debt?
I think I have the school for you,
It's pretty sweet I heard Cliffy B went there
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Oh man, I've never seen that before. Is that an actual ad for the school or just a joke? I remember seeing an ad on tv where the school was advertising that their game students get "All the latest game demos - FREE"
I'm a student in Game Art and Design at the Art Instute of Burnaby. I took some art at the local college before moving here. Now that I'm a year into school I say I would reccoment doing more traditional art classes first. I've come a long way but wish I'd done more first.
As far as your double-jointed finger issues go, drawing isn't really about manual dexterity. It's 95% done with your eyes, if your hand works well enough to operate a spoon then it should work well enough to operate a pencil or stylus.
You might also want to be very careful with "Im looking for university courses to gain qualifications and learn skills in game design. I ultimately aim to enter the industry as a texture artist" as these are two very different things.
A game designer designs game mechanics and defines gameplay, while a game artist -could call that a game asset designer if you want...- creates visual content.
Traditional? Oh yes.
And you also need to be very open a person or you won't progress. What I love about game art is that it's all about thinking outside the box, and I'm not sure if schools can teach that. IMO one should never consider oneself as 'done' with a workflow, you can always find better ways.
Also you could very well start working on being a texture artist before starting any class. Why wait? Post stuff here on polycount!
Last personal note... you can learn alot on your own. I went through a very bizarre yet thrilling time at uni, studying something I loved during the day while teaching myself gameart in the evenings at the same time. It seems kinda crazy from the outside but I found it extremely positive for the two sides as one kinda blended into the other and helped me improve in both fields. Got my 'official' degree last year, work as game artist ever since... but I could switch if I want/need it, I'm glad, it paid off
Hope it helps! And good luck!
I have done art for many years, including an A-level course, GCSE course and many years of secondary school art.
I have quite a reputation in the stencil art community and I've been developing my photoshop skills for the past 5 years. I certainly know the software but I need to know the techniques and I seem to have reached the point where without someone pushing me and setting me assignments with deadlines, I feel that I cannot improve.
I see that I sounded a little ignorant when saying that I dislike the way that conventional 'Art' is taught. Basicly this is because the way that I do my art and my style is frowned apon by most art teachers. I've been downtrodden by art teachers for years because I am not interested in most 'conventional' art styles. Ive always been far better at art on the computer than I have been with pencil+paper, and I see the two as very different in my mind. Surely if my end goal is to do game art, it would be better to do a course designed for learning game art than to do ANOTHER art course?
Agreed on what everybody says.
You might also want to be very careful with "Im looking for university courses to gain qualifications and learn skills in game design. I ultimately aim to enter the industry as a texture artist" as these are two very different things.
A game designer designs game mechanics and defines gameplay, while a game artist -could call that a game asset designer if you want...- creates visual content.
Traditional? Oh yes.
And you also need to be very open a person or you won't progress. What I love about game art is that it's all about thinking outside the box, and I'm not sure if schools can teach that. IMO one should never consider oneself as 'done' with a workflow, you can always find better ways.
Also you could very well start working on being a texture artist before starting any class. Why wait? Post stuff here on polycount!
Last personal note... you can learn alot on your own. I went through a very bizarre yet thrilling time at uni, studying something I loved during the day while teaching myself gameart in the evenings at the same time. It seems kinda crazy from the outside but I found it extremely positive for the two sides as one kinda blended into the other and helped me improve in both fields. Got my 'official' degree last year, work as game artist ever since... but I could switch if I want/need it, I'm glad, it paid off
Hope it helps! And good luck!
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Thanks! I have already taught myself the basics of texture work, and I've worked for a few mod teams, (CoN, FF7source, etc.) but nothing that has realy gone anywhere.
big head. EXPLODE!
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Give me a break. I cant say anything here without getting put down.
Game companies don't want art styles, they want realism. Get that down and you're pretty much set.
Game companies don't want art styles, they want realism. Get that down and you're pretty much set.
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which is precisely why I want to find a course in texture-art! Im *ok* learning from the internet but there's only so many tutorials you can read. After a while they begin to all sound the same. I want to learn from people first-hand who can explain techniques of painting textures to acheive realistic textures.
Here's a render of my current work in progres...
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Well, your opening post is a bit misleading, you should of said "I'm thinking of going for a game design degree at De Montfort university and I want everyone to tell me it's an awesome idea"
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Dont make me seem so closed minded. I asked what good game-art courses there were, Im happy to hear about different alternatives but I just wouldn't enjoy doing an art degree; it's just something that I don't want to do. As you can see I'm not nearly good enough for entry into the industry so I need to hone my skills in and learn the tricks of the trade. This is something which I would like to do in a university instead of just bumming around at home like I am at the moment!
Peace
H
... i don't think you'd do well on any art course in higher education if you're not going to appreciate the importance of traditional art techniques. If you're lucky, your tutors might think that's great, to be shunning all those flaky types in their floppy felt clothes that hang around making the place stink of cigarettes, wine and old leather. Much better to embrace the cleanliness of the wacom pad and mouse, they might think. If you're lucky, that is. Your 3 years pass a bit more painlessly than if you got a tutor with his head screwed on who demanded that you work on pencil and paper repeatedly until you could appreciate that they are NOT different.
That said, you could always muddle grumpily through, begrudgingly doing the stuff you don't want to do but not taking any of it on board cos you don't think it's relevant to what you want to do.
Whichever way you approach it, you're probably gonna come out of uni with a portfolio that's so generic, so stilted, so soulless, that no matter how much you play up the fact you've got a game art degree most employers are going to chuck it straight in the bin.
yep, if you're gonna keep thinking along these lines, my advice would be to do an English degree or something. Get pissed, get laid, have a laugh for 3 years without worrying about what most see as a vocational degree. In the meantime, work like a bastard on a game-art portfolio using the skills you've already got, visit sites like this for good guidance and really build it up to something special. Whatever you do though, don't dismiss traditional techniques, keep working at it whenever you can, get a sketchpad and draw a lot in your spare time - all without some tutor over your shoulder moaning about your style. Trust me, employers will find this infinitely more favourable than where you're currently heading.
edit - no game art course is going to teach you the tricks of the trade. That's what your first year in the industry working for some shitty no-mark company is for
Surely if my end goal is to do game art, it would be better to do a course designed for learning game art than to do ANOTHER art course?
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If there were great university courses with notable instructors teaching top-notch game art with basic art fundamentals, that might be so. The reality is that most game art courses are not that good, and will focus on teaching you things you could learn yourself. A solid 'traditional' art education with good instructors is a much more useful pursuit because (a) it exists and (b) it has application outside JUST the game industry.
Really, the basics for art are the same regardless of the medium; color is color, light is light, proportion is proportion, whether you paint or draw or take pictures, etc. You can learn those things from real artists and then figure out how to translate that into your Photoshop work, or you can learn Photoshop from a pixel jockey and then try to teach yourself about art fundamentals on your own. Everyone is telling you that the first option is better than the second one...
Give me a break. I cant say anything here without getting put down.
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Gah-ha! Welcome to Polycont! A place where if you don't post something amazing right off the bat, you'll have a long journey to gain some respect.
I'll save my comments for the model until you post it in the Pimping n' Previews section.
I found that, for me personally, a school focused entirely on art would have been too limiting, both in courses and in friends to make. Don't write out the option of a liberal arts school - just be sure it's one with a strong art program, of course!
Find a good english course, work like nuts in the daytime, spend all night on computer doing texture art and posting it on polycount boards for you lot to critique!
You guys better damn well help me with my style now! haha!:)
Thanks for the advice.
You'll be seeing a lot of me in the next 5 years. Buckle up!
H
they're also respected by pretty much every possible vocation once you leave
Then, you go onto computers.
I wont say the school is perfect, but I will say it landed me a job before I graduated. But, I will also say, the drop out rate is huge. Starting class was 100 ish. Graduating class was 10. So, yes, when you graduate, you will almost always find a job from that school, but, that's if you make it to graduation.
Most people, drop out the first year, becasue they arent doing 3d. They thought they were coming to a game art school, when in fact, the people that designed the program knew full well, that you need to know the fundamentals.
Your case is especially odd. the fact that you cant see that being a good texture artist takes an immense amount of observation and drawing skill is silly. When you can draw textural detail with a pencil, and nail certain materials with paint(metal, skin, wood, etc.) then the transition to a tablet will be too easy for you, and you will be successful.
Do yourself a favor, and go get some real paints, sit down and do 1 hour paintings every night, trying to nail a certain material type. Do still lifes, they are fast and will help you a lot.Remember that when doing these exercises, you're not trying to create a beuatiful, inspirational piece of art, but trying to recreate what you see in a convincing manner.
It a big world out there Charlie Brown, don't limit yourself.
About schools? the best i know is polycount.net : free, the best teachers in the world, lots and lots of industry professionals, good laughts, cat threads, friends and if you do something wrong people will not think twice to point at you...
He wants the fast track to a job in the industry, he thought a degree would get him there and he wouldn't need to worry about learning the nessesary art skills to be an artist.
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Not true at all. I want to gain experience with working to deadlines/working for a goal instead of just working because i have nothing better to do.
Ok right now Ive had a few too many whiskeys to answer all your posts. Let's leave it 'til the morning.
Peace
H
My suggestion to you would be to go to the Gnomon web site and order some of the traditional art dvds since you'll be shown some good basic excersices on how to draw and paint. Digipen and Gnomon have a nice reputation as schools but they are not for everyone. You need to be willing to learn and but yourself through hell. But any Art Degree that doesn't cover traditional drawing, painting, sculpture, etc is worthless. I have seen to many schools cut that out of their programs and it's pretty sad. Post some of your work, traditional art and game art so you can learn. Also I can relate to you on bad attitudes from some professors toward game art. But so what, just get over it. I suggest you get to know them so they are willing to provide guidance. Good luck.
Alex
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I want to gain experience with working to deadlines/working for a goal instead of just working because i have nothing better to do.
Ok right now Ive had a few too many whiskeys to answer all your posts. Let's leave it 'til the morning.
Peace
H
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You don't need to shell out ass loads of cash just to have someone give you a project and a deadline, you can do that yourself, or join a challenge, join a good mod team (they are rare). I put deadlines on myself, I gave myself poly and texture limitations and pushed myself to get them done under spec and done ahead of time. At the time there where very few degree programs for game art so I had to build my own education I took some art classes I joined a few mods I did a few projects on my own with deadlines I set and I learned how the industry works from friends and forums it took a long time but it paid off. But where I work I am the exception to the rule as everyone else has a degree from either a traditional 4 year or an art institute. There are a few people there who I would consider still "institutionalized" and hardly learn or seek knowledge on their own but rather wait for it to fall in their lap, even then they don't explore it.
Something to keep in mind is that having a degree gives you a margin more of bargain power, not much but it does. If I didn't have to pay for it and I had to the time, I would be all over a degree from Guild Hall. But I don't have either and the road I took got me in, and saved me from a mountain of debt.
So yes the type of student a person will be doesn't matter when they get out in the work force and shouldn't affect the decision to go to school... oh wait yes it does.
Look at the skills that are needed in the industry and what the school can give you, if you can make the best of it and its affordable you would be crazy not to take advantage of it. Use the school, don't let it use you.
Employers do see being able to teach yourself as a valuable skill to have, this trait can be identified in students and non students both. Having a lazy staff that waits for organized training that takes time no one has, or having a work force that keeps themselves ahead of the curve is always more desirable to have.
What's been said in this thread so far holds very true. You have to go into this with the correct mind set. Out of the 40 or so students that started day 1 with me...there are 5 of us remaining. I see kids drop out still. Alot of them have the typical pipe dream of coming right out of school, getting a job with Rockstar, Nintendo, whatever...just because they have a degree. Not true....obviously. Additionally, I see kids graduate from this degree program, and others, with subpar work. Mind you, not all that graduate are crap, and some have gone on to actually work in the game industry.
So, you could go to a school that focuses on Game Art specifically, but if they don't teach the fundamentals they're not worth snot. And yeah, you could join a mod team, read every tutorial out there, buy some drawing dvds, get some anatomy books and teach yourself. But most people need to be pointed in the right direction and introduced to things they wouldn't have thought of or found otherwise.
I think the majority of people that go into a Game Art degree program, or an art school in general, come in thinking it's a fast track to success and not as hard as say...a Comp Sci. degree. Wrong. Any school, any education, any program is what you put into it. If you're not spending every day while in school researching, eating, breathing, living what you came there to do...you won't make it. The degree will not get you a job, but your hard work and dedication just might get your foot in the door.
Final word, Ben recently wrote an article on his thoughts on Formal Art Training, worth a read http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/formal_art_training.html
Good luck! :]