Working and finding time to do your own work?

motives · Apr 2006

As some of you know i started at dice stockholm a few months ago and its been an absolute blast sofar. Exceeds all my expectations

However i found myself in a situation where i come home from work and be without time for personal projects and praccy on areas i would like to improve. Friends, gym, my band etc etc takes up all the free time i have left. I guess its pretty obvious you get less time for your own stuff while workin 8+ hours a day but im curious anyway how u guys manage to do find time for your own stuff. Or do you?

Rick Stirling · Apr 2006

You don't do personal stuff.

You wont have the time, and you won't have the drive. Bascially, if you spend 40 hours a week in front of a computer making art, and in your spare time do the same, then you are borderline geek. The rest of the world is much more interesting than making a space marine for Quake 4.

Better to spend that time with your friends, in the Gym and with the band. Neglecting others can lead you to lose them! It almost happened to me a long time ago.

Weiser_Cain · Apr 2006

I am a geek. Doodle at the bar.

low odor · Apr 2006

I work 45+ hours at a non-art related job...and sometimes it's hard to motivate myself to do anything but be a slug when I get home....Polycount is a great motivater though..and the aspiration to do more than just freelance stuff

Mark Dygert · Apr 2006

I have to agree with Rick. I model and paint 40+ hours which is enough for me. I need time away from the computer to recharge creativly. Getting a job in the industry was a great thing for me because it ment my free time could be just that, free time.

KRakarth · Apr 2006

When working producing art all day Im too shagged out to do much at home artwise - three kids also need my attention. When Im not working in art I tend to do traditional art, drawing and even some painting.

I also paint miniatures for 40k.

doc rob · Apr 2006

You can manage a little hobbyist stuff that's semi-related to your job, like drawing at home or playing around with zbrush occasionally. But, I agree with most people here that you can't do something effectively 40 hours a week as a job and then go home and have the drive to do the same stuff.

I've worked with people in the past who claim otherwise. . . But, in my experience, these folks were in denial of the fact that their outside-of-work commitments were draining them so much that their at-work responsibilities were being neglected. Well, maybe not in denial. They might have just not cared about their day job.

There are always exeptions to the rule, but normal everyday people just don't have enough in the fuel tank to run at full speed 24/7.

Mark Dygert · Apr 2006

120hrs in a 5 day work week
- 40 for work
- 40 for sleep
- 7.5 for travel
- 2.5 for dinner

30hrs left over each work week to do whatever you want.
That breaks down to 6hrs per day. Toss kids in the mix and I'm pretty sure you end up in the hole on hours some where.

To me that doesn't seem like a lot of time to recharge your creativity by doing other things besides being a poly monger, let alone work on personal projects. I was lucky enough to have a nice job that alotted me enough free time to work on my hobby for 4 years. It got me into the swing of modeling as a job.

I need time to experience and see different things, other than my home, my car and work to stay creative and not fall into lethargy. Besides I'm not all that gun-ho to work on personal stuff when I'm really fired up to go to work. Unless you are unhappy with your job aren't all projects personal?

nealb4me · Apr 2006

Hmmm, I work many hours per week on my modelling/texturing job. I have plenty of ideas swimming around in my head for what I would like to create for myself...just isn't enough time. I want to get better at digital painting and drawing, so whenever an opportunity arises I sit down and draw/paint and post here. I can't help feeling like I'm wasting my time though as the volume of work required to become significantly better than I am now far exceeds what is achievable in my spare time. The best time I ever had was before working in this field where I could channel 100% effort into whatever I wanted. So essentially the magical gap between highschool and having a real job.

I consider financial independance one of my great goals. For now I just keep working hard until I have earned this freedom. Then I could sit around dreaming up all sorts of weird shit to put in a game or make a 6000x4000px render of. Although there is always the possibility that my interests branch into something completely different by then.

James Edwards · Apr 2006

Interesting... I don't always want to keep going after work but I still make time a few days a week to work on my own stuff. Partly out of interest in improving the areas I'm weak in, but also simply because I'd go insane if I couldn't do my own thing. There are so many things I want to achieve, I don't think I'd have time to do them all even if I could work on them 24/7. I think this is also partly due to the specialization that has been occuring in my studio over time. Originally I concepted, modeled, rigged animated and even textured my own stuff occasionally. These days theres so much focus required in each area, in a much larger team that I don't have the opportunity to do all those things anymore. So I'm probably scratching an itch that wasn't there up until a couple years ago.

I still have time for a personal life outside of that though, and it helps that my gf understands that that is one of my real passions and so she gives me my space for it. I don't have kids though so it's probably a lot easier to find the time for play. To be honest, I'm not really interested in changing that at this point in my life and I'm 35. I might not ever be ready for kids. Call me selfish, but I like my life the way it is now.

I always remember that I started doing this as a hobby, and I feel the same way today many years later. I'd still be doing this for free, even if I wasn't getting paid.

poopinmymouth · Apr 2006

I'm gonna go against the grain here, and say it's possible. I work a 40-50 hour week at work, and then come home and work on personal stuff. I still feel like I can put my 100% in at work, even while juggling personal projects at home. In fact I end up bringing the skills and techniques I learn at home, into work, so I'd say my at home work benefits my job.

I basically do something different at home. Right now I do high poly normal mapped assets at work, so at home I do ps2 and psp type assets. Because it's different enough, it doesn't make me feel like I'm coming home to do the same thing over again.

Some tips I use for getting things done: Leave max open and ready to go. I find if it's closed, I'll try to do my email/internet/aim chat before starting it up, and I'll waste 30-45 minutes and sometimes not even start it up at all. If Max is already running I'll be more prone to dive right in. Five minutes is not too little time to get something done. It will put you five minutes closer, and you'll most likely work longer than five. So I try to put in at least five minutes a night when I'm on an art project. Make sure it's something that you will have fun doing. You don't have money or a schedule to motivate you, only the love of the piece. This makes the concept and idea stage very important.

In the end, it's down to the person. Some people very well might not be able to prioritize enough to work a full time job and juggle personal work. Whether it's emotionally wearing, they have other commitments, or it robs them of their motivation for their day job. However that's up to each person, and I think it's possible to do both if you really make it a priority.

*edit: I'm with Gwot on the passion thing, that's what drives me to work on it after hours.

rawkstar · Apr 2006

its hard. its impossible to keep up the same schedule and still be able to work on everything you want, there just aren't enough hours in the day. what i found is that just when you get home after work you end up wasting alot of time doing practically nothing (could just be me) and this time could probably be used for sleeping, so you come home from work, sleep, wake up at around 2am and work on your own stuff or whatever until you have to go to work. I found that working out pretty good. For me its more of a necessity though, i have to find the extra time in a day so i can do all the contract work, and if i don't do it i don't get paid, so thats a good motivation... ofcourse its not personal stuff so i don't think its helping me improve in alot of ways, just getting me closer to getting carpal tunnel.

Lee3dee · Apr 2006

I used to do the same thing as Rick, to 3d all day at work, come home and just veg. occasionally i would do some personal projects at work during lunch or off hours and maybe bring that home, but i rarely did play in 3D at home.

McIlroy · Apr 2006

Maybe at the very least you could come up with one big project. It would have areas you want to improve in . Then spend an hour a day on it. If it's a massivly detailed character that's going to take 120 hours to finish, well hey you can pop out 2-4 great personal projects a year that's better then a lot of people .

SuperOstrich · Apr 2006

I find it's very possible, as I've been working on my own stuff very frequently as of late. I don't put a lot of time per day into the personal work, maybe something like 30 mins to an hour a couple of days a week. But progress is being made on the work, and I get to model, texture, paint whatever I feel like. For example, I've never had the chance to work on a fantasy game, so I'm concepting out a dwarf right now. I'm having a blast, even though I've probably only spent about 45 minutes on that particular piece so far. It surely isn't affecting my ability to function at work.

I find the people that have a hard time functioning at work are the guys that go out drinking on weeknights, hitting the clubs, and all that stuff.

Malekyth · Apr 2006

This thread is inspiring, because I guess I've always assumed that most artists could keep it going in their off-hours, while I never really have been, and I've felt broken for it. It's gotten harder over the years to open Max up after work, and now, with gym, French class and the occasional night out, it's virtually out of the question.

I'm glad it's possible, but not the rule. Whew!

joolz8000 · Apr 2006

Every two months or so I find myself unable to sleep. I'll turn on the machine and work all night- usually on something just for me. These projects rarely get finished. Doesn't matter- it's just something I gotta do. I have at least four such projects going now. Maybe when the kids are a little older I'll be able to make more time for it.

motives · Apr 2006

hehe yea malekyth nice to hear that everyone else isnt supermen

nice replies guys, interesting to read everyones take on this. I guess its really does come to the person in question AND the feeling you have when u get home. I been really busy since i started workin so i havnt really had any free time at all to even consider sitting down infront of the computer. Now when things starts to settle down a bit it will be fun to see if the inspiration is still there when i get home. Im ithcing to learn z-brush2 so that could be a good thing to spend a few hours on when i get the time!
I suppose it all does come down to beeing happy with what you are doing and not get that "i must complete this or else..." feeling.

Daz · Apr 2006

Quite obviously the answer is 'it depends'.

Available free time, drive, commitments, kids, even age. I think I was far more inclined to do it in my twenties. In my thirties I would say it's a lot harder. You're more aware of how precious time is, and I'd rather spend it experiencing real life than stuck in front of a pc. I found the Generals comp for instance a real struggle, and it saddens me to say that toward the end I wasn't enjoying it because of the amount my free time it was eating up. Everybodys different though. I worked far too many hours for far too many years and I think it affected me. That said, I still often manage a sunday afternoon or a night or two during the week on my own stuff. I very, very rarely watch television, and often don't even have the patience to sit through one movie. So I still have some time for 3D. I like to think that If and when I finally meet the right gal and make mini Daz's, that I would devote the vast majority of my time to them. Because I've been burnt before neglecting people in my life that I care about for the sake of 3D Art. In a nutshell, I feel life's too short to spend it in front of a pc.

Ruz · Apr 2006

I work at home 'almost' constantly and still go out and party quite often.
I love 'art' and even before i was working in the industry I used to work at it most days , morning noon and night.
When i start to go insane i calm down a bit and do other things.
To be honest though i don't do any major projects, just practice stuff that i couldn't get the hang of at work.
I am probably going to het back in to my wildlife illustration, watercolours etc as I miss all that sometimes and will be a good break form pixel pushing

Scott Ruggels · Apr 2006

I think it's a factor of age as well as inspiration. where you find inspiration helps. I used to do a massive amount of creative work, 3d Models, Illustration, even writing in my 20's and early 30's. But now I find it difficult to do more than sketch, and then not that often. Doing things differently, such as different resolution modelling as Poop suggested may be a good suggestion, but I have found that these days I need other people around me physically drawing and creating for me to feel "energetic" enough to do so. I have planty of ideas, but little energy or motivation after work.

Another thing I have seen in others is that any addiction to an online MMORPG semms to kill on'es output. I saw it first in people that played something called "FurryMUCK": that just stopped drawing, and these days WOW, and Second Life have sucked away people's motivations. I may have a touch of this with a slight addiction to the internet, and conservative Blogs, but all can become a distraction, and a drain on one's time and muse.

Scott

ebagg · Apr 2006

I think there's some many factors but it really comes down to have balance in your life. Getting stuff done at home, you need to have it vary from what you're doing at work, in at least some way, so you can justify it not just being (and feeling like) work.

I do flash work and graphic design for a living, when i freelance outside of work it feels like I just worked a double shift, I'm sure its a bit trickier once you're in that dream job but if I'd think if you do characters when at work you do props, concepting when at work you model and texture. If you want to get something done thats the same as your work, do it leisurely whenever you feel like piddling around in 3d.

It's just part of life, I have a bunch of half-finished projects at home, they say 95% of the project is easy, its that last 5% thats a bitch, so when you're at home the 5% is that much harder.

Vito · Apr 2006

I highly recommend the classic (and original) self-help book, How to Live on 24 Hours a Day. It was written nearly a hundred years ago, but every word is still true, and it explains exactly how to go about making sure there's time in your day to work on your own projects, so that work/school doesn't suck the life out of you like it does for most people.

You can also read it for free through Project Gutenberg.

And if your entire life is out of order, there's always Getting Things Done. GTD is higher-level, though. It doesn't explain how to handle your daily routine like 24H does.

Luxury · Apr 2006

What else are you going to do with your spare time? Watch TV? Come on - we all know that's a lie with the crap that's on the tube these days. Even so - I'd recommend a TiVo to help you get motivated. I get home from work and lay around for a little bit. Then jump right on the computer and work away. (Poops suggestion of keeping max running 24/7 is dead on)

I usually do this 2-3 nights a week, leaving the other 2-3 nights to watch the tv shows that I skipped while working the night before, or watch a movie, or play a game, or go out or something. It's like a battery kinda thing. You need time to rest and recharge every once in a while.

But then I don't do 3D for a living. I do it for a hobby. My work and hobby don't cross over so I don't feel like I'm doing work at home and vice versa. 3D is relaxing therapy to me.

spacemonkey · Apr 2006

My fiance works away every other week, so I have no excuse not to work in some of my spare time

Zergxes · Apr 2006

Great topic! I pretty much stopped doing 3d outside of work and it came back to bite me. I was in advertising so the stuff clients wanted (cartoony) is nothing close to what most game studios want. So now I'm trying to recover from a year and a half hiatus during which time everone else learned normal mapping. I've pretty much resolved to find time to maintain a living portfolio from now on.

noritsune · Apr 2006

I definitely notice that when Work gets lame, or uncreative, or just tired, my impulses get backed up and drive me to work feverishly on personal stuff in the evenings and weekends. I think that there's always vestiges of that, even when work is exciting...

I'm not sure I agree with Vig who asks that unless you're unhappy with your job, if all projects aren't personal. I think unless you're Chief Designer, Art Director, and hell Producer too, the thing you do at Work will never be as tasty as the personal-personal morsel you get to work on at home. the thing that you can make as weird or un-sellworthy as you want. At Work, there's always someone else's finger in the creative pie.

Rick Stirling · Apr 2006

I wonder....

Is it actually an age thing? Scott and Daz have both brought this up. When I was younger it was all I wanted to do. Now I realise the world is helluva lot more interested than makeing art for computer games.

Daz · Apr 2006

Well, I'm not sure it's age per se. Here's my rather un-eloquent take on things:
For me, I think it's to do with the nature of our medium. But yes, it's surely related to the amount of years spent cooped up rubbing off on you too. Look how many artists in other (more traditional) mediums are perfectly happy beavering away til the day they croak of old age and booze. Heck Chuck Close started to paint again (with his mouth) after becoming a quadriplegic. Now that's determination for you. Still, Im talking there about fine artists who are painting for themselves which isn't really a fair comparison, since they haven't spent all day working for 'the man'.
But the issue I have with Computer generated Art is that the creation of it is like solitary confinement sometimes. There is something about sitting at a pc for hours and hours on end that makes me feel a bit sad and geeky. It's just not a particularly 'epic' experience and it often makes me feel like life is passing me by. It's just so...static. It's the exact same reason that I can feel my interest in gaming rapidly diminishing too. Imagine being Ron Mueck or Geiger or Francis Bacon or whoever creating some amazing giant thing in a huge studio. That's just a lot more animated somehow. That's epic. I envy those guys. Dead or not. It would be nice to make something physical for a change. But I guess there's nothing really stopping me. If I make it to retirement and my hands still work, I hope to do a lot of painting.

Weiser_Cain · Apr 2006

So we're all doomed?

PaK · Apr 2006

[ QUOTE ]
might not be able to prioritize enough to work a full time job and juggle personal work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Time away from my creative medium inspires and motivates me to do my own personal work.

Tonight after I watched a dvd and hit the pillow my 'idea' clicked. i have been pondering a scene for a while and had no hook. i had technicques Ive been developing at work that i want to showcase in a scene but not idea to carry thru. Whenever I'm supposed to be trying to get to sleep it seems my creative brain gioes into overdrive. (terrible timing...ugg)

So I went to work on this new scene starting at 2am a modeling the key features. It's 3:30am and I've got the core ideas down. Now I can goto sleep and know I can pick this up when I find the time again.

recently my job has been very technical. As the tasks go by they get more and more technical. All this time away from art asset creation makes me hungry to get back to some basics. I personally think the time away has mottivated me.

I reccomend everyone get's a lil' away time' I disagree with Ben in that it's not necessarily about prioritizing but a concious choice to let something rest for a while and get a fresh perspective.

-R

SkullboX · Apr 2006

[ QUOTE ]
It would be nice to make something physical for a change.

[/ QUOTE ]

I recently sculpted with actual clay for the first time since I was 8 or so. My girlfirend's mom teaches arts and crafts and had one of those 10 kilo packs of cheap clay, but it was awesome to work with. You can pick up that stuff at any art shop here, I imagine you can over there as well and along with some basic tools (bottom one) you can create something fun in no time. And if not you just smash it and start over.

Plus you can do it outside as well in the summer.

Daz · Apr 2006

Sounds good SkullboX thanks. Perhaps I should make an effort to find a class in this town.

edit, woot. Craigslist rocks. I think Im gonna go for it:

http://www.craigslist.com/cls/150851073.html

Josh_Singh · Apr 2006

I too have felt the funk of doing things at home. But when modeling and textureing get old. I take a break and try to learn how to animate and rig. Not only does it make me a more valuable artist, but It's much more satisfying to animate a character and give it "Life".

Zergxes · Apr 2006

Deep thread.

EarthQuake · Apr 2006

I often find myself spending hours and hours on the pc after work, but more than not its wasting time on irc/IM shit browsing 4chan and touching myself while i watch naked people have sex. Sometimes i do art.

Nilium · Apr 2006

Hell, I don't have enough time even with schoolwork

It's extremely difficult for me to do anything without going "Oh fuck, I have to do <so and so schoolwork>" and then feeling vaguely sick because usually it's due in either a) a day or worse b) a few hours. Would be nice if I could sit down at the PC for once without firing up OpenOffice and writing an essay or making a spreadsheet or some damn thing I don't want to do.

Heck, my only fun class now is Logic

Gah, I feel so emo. Edit: Oh, and yeah, I'm actually getting that feeling now, even though it's the weekend now. I think it's gonna stay with me for good at this point.

arshlevon · Apr 2006

i talked to poop about this today and thought about it bit so i feel inclined to make some type of comment.

For me it comes in waves. sometimes i am all go sometimes i dont want to do anything. right now i am organizing 2 HUGE projects for myself. so huge there is a chance i might not finish either. but i feel like its time to go back to that spark that got me started in 3d, and it wasnt games, it was my own creations. i just fell into games because i was tired of washing dishes and not selling paintings. so games are not really my passion per se.

First off i want full creative control, so anything i do for someone else i am not going to put 100% into, i just cant, its not mine. My personal stuff will always come first to me. it might be a shitty attitude if your all about climbing those latters of sucess to top, but i really could care less about being a cog in a machine that is ultimatily buying some dudes yacht or ferrari.

i have second thoughts about being a game artist all the time, but i never have second thoughts about my personal projects, they are the only things i really own. i dont own the characters i make for sci fi fantasy desert combat cliche nuber 4,657 special crimson edtion, and really i dont want to. the industry is a pretty depressing place to work for 95% of us and without my personal stuff i would of went absolutly ape shit a long time ago. i think you have to make a choice, i agree with doc rob in the sense that one is likely to suffer, but you can ultimatly choose which, but at the same time i agree with poop, because i know how into his stuff he is and i know he is doing what he wants to do. i think its when your not 120% passionate about what you do everyday and you need an escape from that. when you cant wait wait till 6 comes around, or till this dumb space cat is rigged so you can cut out an hour early to go home and work on something you actually give a damn about.

for some people this is a paycheck, they did the work to get here, they might put forth the small about effort it would take to stay here but thats it tops. for some its all they ever wanted to do, all they ever want to do, and they could spend every waking second doing it because they love it that much. i am a bit of both, i could spend every waking second making art, but not for someone else. if i happen to uncover new techniques while working on something i love, then that guy driving around in the ferrari just got a free upgrade on one of his money making cogs.

in respect to game industry: "its just a paycheck to me, and i'm just a whore" -arshlevon
and you can quote me on that.

Ruz · Apr 2006

Nicely put arshlevon . i swear i learn new stuff at home and then everyone at work benefits, but I don't get paid any extra for my trouble.
It hard though because i need the money, but the creative satisfaction from doing games art professially is close to
xero.

I too sold my soul to bercome a games artist

I have often thought of returinig to being a freelance illustrator, then at least i could choose my own hours.

Working and finding time to do your own work?

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