I have difficulty model a human eye that realistic looking. Something about the reflection off the eyes, or something else just seem to be wrong. Anyone can give me some tip?
First off it might be easier If you explain wether you are modeling for realtime or pre-rendered use, since they are very different. Also your app of choice helps.
Eyeballs tend to have very small hi-lights with very abrupt specular falloff. So for starters you need to bring down the size of your hi-light, and make the falloff a lot more sudden. Not sure what 3D app. you use, but in maya for instance you would ramp up your 'roughness' value of a Phong E shader.
Take a look at this eye tut: http://www.highend3d.com/maya/tutorials/modeling/polygon/243-1.html
What's key is that you model the intricacies of the eye and all its components, so that light bounces off of it in the right way.
Thanks for the suggestion. Oringally, I was using very sudden falloff, then it doesn't seem to reflect much. I am using Maya as my 3D application. And I am modeling them for CGI purpose. Just trying to improve my portfolio. Here is a new rendered pic that I just did, but it's very hard to draw the discoloration of skin properly. Any tips?
Well, I think you need to concentrate on the model first and foremost, and worry about the texturing and shading later. Really, there's little point in worrying about that stuff yet when the model needs more love as this one does.
Thanks for the suggestion. After 3hr of loving my model. I came out with this
I know the eyes are off, since I am using old model. But please be more supecifc about which part of my model should be fix. I know it sounds dumb, but after staring at same model for a few hour, something odd may look normal. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.
Aren't the eyes a bit big though? Like the iris is too small in relation to the cornea. Are you wanting help on the eyeball surfacing or the modelling of the surrounding skin?
The above image seems more like a realistic eye than this one to be honest. Here's some ref:
Yeah I realized the eye proportion problem. I will make another eye... and hopefully doesn't suck as much as this one does. One thing very strange though. After I export model from Z-brush to Maya... the face looks very odd... It doesn't look like the one I saw in Z-brush... Anyone know why? I thought Maya pers view doesn't have strange perspective angle >.>
You can tweak all you like. The model hasn't changed shape. As MoP says, you simply need to get used to the concept that in Zbrush there is no perspective in the viewport.
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The bottom part of the eye needs some luvin'. It start off too low and this throws off the size of the iris.
You have the red shape, but it needs to be more like the green. This will help make the iris smaller.
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Thank you thank you. I know it's off, but didn't know precisely how much. I will put more loving for the eye part. Wow I really love this community, everyone is so talented. I need to work hard to catch up!
Practice? It looks like an asian females head to me, but the art and modeling is a bit unattractive. The nose and lips look fairly nice, though teh nose is rather masculine.
It looks like you are trying to model an anime character as opposed to a real human. The face is also very box shaped, i ran across this as a begginer as well, learn to model in perspective view, and match the FOV to the reference photo if you can, or the game engine FOV if that is teh target.
Something that may be making that head model look less feminine, is the lack of smoothness. All those ugly wrinkles on the forehead and some on the cheeks, are giving the appearance of an old man as opposed to a young girl.
Since that mesh looks like it's been smoothed, I wonder how the control mesh looks on the forehead - chances are you need to move the vertices around there to smooth it all out.
Also Downsizer makes a good point that the nose seems rather masculine, I think it's due to the length and shape of it, try putting a subtle curve going down from between the eyes to the tip in profile, also make the underside tilt up a little. The nostrils probably shouldn't be so sharply defined either.
Thanks for the tips. Well... after all night rework over that model, I sort of catched on too about all the no so smooth part. Anyway, this after almost complete rework of the model. Any suggestions on what I should change before I ruin it with my texture mapping :P ?
Yeah, I have seen Daz's tutorial... since a long time ago (apprently still go through it frequently as I model). He is so great... I am still trying to absorb all the neutritions out of his tutorial even now. Apprently... find a front view of someone... is relatively easy... well... a lot of shots are off by a long shot and can't be used as front angle reference, but side views are just rare...
best would be of course to have a 3D reference to understand the way how bone, muscles and fatigue build up the facial forms. you need to train your eye first.
your head model there seems to have a lot of typical flaws. go look at the real thing before opening the 3d app - having a real girl for your studies helps , or try statues, whatever.
the difficulty with pictures is often the lighting which can be very, very deceiving. also, don't use those celebrity images which have been photoshopped to death. again, very misleading at times.
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best would be of course to have a 3D reference to understand the way how bone, muscles and fatigue build up the facial forms. you need to train your eye first.
your head model there seems to have a lot of typical flaws. go look at the real thing before opening the 3d app - having a real girl for your studies helps , or try statues, whatever.
the difficulty with pictures is often the lighting which can be very, very deceiving. also, don't use those celebrity images which have been photoshopped to death. again, very misleading at times.
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Thanks for the suggestions. But would you please elaborate more on the typical flaws part? Well, I am trying keep improving my model. Each one of them, I found some flaws compare to the previous ones. You can say, the last model is the latest understand of human face I have. If I know where to start looking for trouble, I think I can improve much faster. Thanks you all for suggestions. I love you all
Latest model. Going back and forth referencing on different things, I realized perspective view and non-perspective view threw me off on the lize of the lower lip (I think)... Besides that obvious flaws, anyone has some suggestions on this model?
It seems to be getting better. It still seems to suffer from random lumpiness though, and it's a little hard to figure out where that's coming from without seeing a wireframe.
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It seems to be getting better. It still seems to suffer from random lumpiness though, and it's a little hard to figure out where that's coming from without seeing a wireframe.
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well... I would love to show the wireframe... but due to my proceture flaws... the low polygon frame is gone. And only high polygon wireframe exists... I doubt anyone would want to see those. One thing I know is wrong is the ear. It can't compete in detail with other part of the face. But I fixed the position and proportion during the last few reworks. The thing about my proceture is that I start off with half of the face, Then mirror it. After that is UV editing. And finally export to Zbrush and start smoothing stuff up. So, sometime I figure things are wrong, but it's almost impossible to go back to low polygon to change things, so I rely on Zbrush. That's why I can't show the wireframe of my lastest model. Is there anyway around that, which allow me to model with the whole thing (instead of half), so I can still edit the low polygon model even after I finished editing UV?
Well, your workflow does sound a little skewed. You shouldn't really ever be in a situation where your low poly cage is 'gone'. It seems like youre using Zbrush as a means to smooth your model, which is arguably different from what you should be using it for, which is to add detail.
My suspicion is that you are editing her face in too high a subdiv. level in Zbrush, and that it would be easier to smooth her out at the lower levels.
Really, for a face like this, you don't really 'need' Zbrush at all, but that's not to say that you can't or shouldn't be using it for this purpose. It's just to say that I personally for instance, would be making sure my low cage was right in maya, and subdividing/undoing/repeat til happy from there.
However, If you wanna stick with Zbrush, the trick is to use each subdiv level to their fullest potential.
Thank you Daz. I used to use only polygon proxy when I model before I found Z-brush. Zbrush makes a lot of things very easy to achieve, so I guess I got a little carried away. However, sometimes, half of a face always leave some problem when I mirror geometry. I guess it had to do with my source image and so on. Oh and sometimes, when I have lowest cage polygon and use subD Lv 4, the shame is really refined, but a lot of little dents were created. Which I don't see in lower lv divisions.
I suggest you trace over your model in Maya and recreate a low poly wireframe for this head. Doing this will allow you to easily tweek proportions and just practice modeling. Starting to learn how to model in Zbrush without knowing how to make efficent models can make you become lazy at modeling and will become a major pain to overcome. I'm not trying to be judgemental or anything, I just trying to say something that might happen and to keep an eye out for. I imagine you want to be able to make models that can be animated at some point.
I think if you refine the nostrils a bit it would make the nose look more like a feminine. I don't know what your reference looks like so take it for what it's worth. The progress on your model is very nice. Good work.
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I suggest you trace over your model in Maya and recreate a low poly wireframe for this head. Doing this will allow you to easily tweek proportions and just practice modeling. Starting to learn how to model in Zbrush without knowing how to make efficent models can make you become lazy at modeling and will become a major pain to overcome. I'm not trying to be judgemental or anything, I just trying to say something that might happen and to keep an eye out for. I imagine you want to be able to make models that can be animated at some point.
I think if you refine the nostrils a bit it would make the nose look more like a feminine. I don't know what your reference looks like so take it for what it's worth. The progress on your model is very nice. Good work.
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Thank you so much for the suggestion and warning. You are absolutely right, I rely on zbrush a bit too much. It's a new software for me (just got Zbrush like 5 days ago) and smoothing things out with a brush is so much easier than pulling, pushing vertexes of cage polygon all day. For my next model, I will use my good old change/proxy/undo trick to get things right before I use Zbrush to add small details. One thing in Zbrush that bothers me is that certain low polygon flaws remains in high subdiv model. Like those dent... bump... that I just can't seems to kill them. Btw, is there anyway in maya to twike around half side low polygon cage, but can see whole subdivided form? Because once mirror side the model, selecting multiple points and trying move then around becomes very painful.
Yeah, you can use the smooth proxy mirror function to achieve that. The thing is though, the state of enlightenment in subdivision modeling is when you don't need to subdivide too much any more, since you 'know' or sense how your topology will look once subdivded. So that's a state worth shooting for, and that only comes with subdividing and unsubdividing models many, many, many times
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Yeah, you can use the smooth proxy mirror function to achieve that. The thing is though, the state of enlightenment in subdivision modeling is when you don't need to subdivide too much any more, since you 'know' or sense how your topology will look once subdivded. So that's a state worth shooting for, and that only comes with subdividing and unsubdividing models many, many, many times
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Yes master, I shall do as you wish m(__)m
j/k. I do realize I need more practice. All of you godly talented people went through all this at some point too... at least I think. I can only wish for catching up to you people by working hard. Daz, you've been in gaming industry for almost 10 years? How long did it take you to make those gorgeous models that are in your demo reel? And how long did it take you to get that good since you first started as 3D artiest?
Wait, that reads badly. I didnt mean I personally had reached a buddhist like zen state of divine modeler or anything. I was just trying to explain that after a lot of practise you shouldn't need to worry quite so much about working in a mode where you can see your subdivided result update instantaneously.
I made a concerted spare time effort to learn subdivision modeling about 2 or 3 years ago. Before that it was all game resolution modeling.
Krisonrik I would not worry about how many years it might take x person to get subd down. It's all about practice, truly pushing yourself and how bad you want it. In my case it took me about six months to learn max polygon modeling to a point I could do "decent" topology that would subdivide properly in terms of the smoothing algorithm. However I spent at least 6 to 12 hrs everyday modeling, modeling, modeling. Those models were not half as efficient as the stuff I can make now. The problem with self teaching is that you won't think of the very best way of doing everything. If I had someone like Daz to show me the ropes it might have taken as little as a month to get where I was 3 years ago. Also make sure you model from reference otherwise you are just wasting a lot of time. Hey you already have a huge advantage, I didn't learn about Polycount until I graduated so I had no good workflow when it came to building low poly models. Keep posting and don't let the tough crits get you down. Later.
Understanding the subD algorithm wasn't the problem for me, coping with the amount of detail you need to put into highpoly however is still completely beyond me.
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Do you pay fees :P ?
Anyway, I am just so grateful that pros like Daz and everyone here are giving me crits. Crits don't get me down, in fact, how I cooked up 5 models in last week, and keep on posting them on here is due to crits. I keep pushing myself, and learn something new in every model that I made. Anyway, just to keep everyone entertained, here is my newest ugly model. Hair is ugly, skin is ugly (haven't pain texture map yet), eye ball texture hasn't finish yet well... it's just very incomplete at this stage.
let the slaughter begin
While it may not be perfect, the amount of improvement shown over the first models is great!
You've really got the right attitude to go on with this.
You don't need to go around saying your models are ugly though - while they may not match up with the quality of seasoned pro modellers' work, they're definitely a long way from ugly.
For this sort of stuff, I wouldn't worry about hair (unless it's for an assignment or something, and you *need* to do it) - I'd focus on just the anatomy, for example it's hard to crit the ears when their hidden by all the hair
The mouth and eyes look pretty good on this one - the nose is getting there, but there are still some shape problems, around the tip, the sides of the bridge and nostrils. Again, reference is your friend - gather and examine as much as you can - photos, illustrations, books etc.
Keep it up, you're showing great dedication and improvement!
Thanks. The nose problem you see... well... it's something that went wrong with at low poly stage (I think) and it turn into an incurable tumor on my model. It has those little dent, or bumps that no matter what I do... will just not go away. After 26times rework over this model, I finally told myself... let it go and try to improve on the next model I will be making in the near future. Something is always wrong >.> it can get frustrating at times. About the hair... well I will keep them off next time. The thing is that I am still trying to put more stuff in my portfolio. Been trying to get into 3D industry ever since I graduated last year. But no luck so far. I don't have any pro working experiences. And I can't seem to find any entry lv positions either. So I guess all I can hope for is to work hard and build a very good porfolio and hope someone hiring manager will see it and likes what he sees.
That's true, it can get very frustrating - but you're right... if something's just not working at all, just leave it as it is and make a mental note to focus on that area in your next model. You usually learn more by building lots of new models, than just spending a long time "fixing" one.
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Well, not necessarily. But If paint hair is giving you that brittle, pixellated look then yeah
So you mean youre using actual maya hair or paintfx?
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Yes sir, I do use paintfx. Well, I convert them to nerbs afterward, because I use mental ray for rendering, and it doesn't love painfx.
Just finished painting textures. Here is what she looks like now. Well... lol the texture for insdie of the mouth and inside of the nose are kind of messed up.. I will have to fix it up later ><;;
Replies
Eyeballs tend to have very small hi-lights with very abrupt specular falloff. So for starters you need to bring down the size of your hi-light, and make the falloff a lot more sudden. Not sure what 3D app. you use, but in maya for instance you would ramp up your 'roughness' value of a Phong E shader.
Take a look at this eye tut: http://www.highend3d.com/maya/tutorials/modeling/polygon/243-1.html
What's key is that you model the intricacies of the eye and all its components, so that light bounces off of it in the right way.
You have the red shape, but it needs to be more like the green. This will help make the iris smaller.
I know the eyes are off, since I am using old model. But please be more supecifc about which part of my model should be fix. I know it sounds dumb, but after staring at same model for a few hour, something odd may look normal. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.
The above image seems more like a realistic eye than this one to be honest. Here's some ref:
The bottom part of the eye needs some luvin'. It start off too low and this throws off the size of the iris.
You have the red shape, but it needs to be more like the green. This will help make the iris smaller.
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Thank you thank you. I know it's off, but didn't know precisely how much. I will put more loving for the eye part. Wow I really love this community, everyone is so talented. I need to work hard to catch up!
It looks like you are trying to model an anime character as opposed to a real human. The face is also very box shaped, i ran across this as a begginer as well, learn to model in perspective view, and match the FOV to the reference photo if you can, or the game engine FOV if that is teh target.
Since that mesh looks like it's been smoothed, I wonder how the control mesh looks on the forehead - chances are you need to move the vertices around there to smooth it all out.
Also Downsizer makes a good point that the nose seems rather masculine, I think it's due to the length and shape of it, try putting a subtle curve going down from between the eyes to the tip in profile, also make the underside tilt up a little. The nostrils probably shouldn't be so sharply defined either.
Lining up your mesh to guide-photos is a big help, then you just need some (ok, a lot) 3/4 angle tweaking.
Daz has a great tut on this.
http://www.daz-art.com/hi_poly_tut_ref.htm
http://free-textures.got3d.com/natural/free-character-references/index.html
your head model there seems to have a lot of typical flaws. go look at the real thing before opening the 3d app - having a real girl for your studies helps
the difficulty with pictures is often the lighting which can be very, very deceiving. also, don't use those celebrity images which have been photoshopped to death. again, very misleading at times.
best would be of course to have a 3D reference to understand the way how bone, muscles and fatigue build up the facial forms. you need to train your eye first.
your head model there seems to have a lot of typical flaws. go look at the real thing before opening the 3d app - having a real girl for your studies helps
the difficulty with pictures is often the lighting which can be very, very deceiving. also, don't use those celebrity images which have been photoshopped to death. again, very misleading at times.
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Thanks for the suggestions. But would you please elaborate more on the typical flaws part? Well, I am trying keep improving my model. Each one of them, I found some flaws compare to the previous ones. You can say, the last model is the latest understand of human face I have. If I know where to start looking for trouble, I think I can improve much faster. Thanks you all for suggestions. I love you all
It seems to be getting better. It still seems to suffer from random lumpiness though, and it's a little hard to figure out where that's coming from without seeing a wireframe.
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well... I would love to show the wireframe... but due to my proceture flaws... the low polygon frame is gone. And only high polygon wireframe exists... I doubt anyone would want to see those. One thing I know is wrong is the ear. It can't compete in detail with other part of the face. But I fixed the position and proportion during the last few reworks. The thing about my proceture is that I start off with half of the face, Then mirror it. After that is UV editing. And finally export to Zbrush and start smoothing stuff up. So, sometime I figure things are wrong, but it's almost impossible to go back to low polygon to change things, so I rely on Zbrush. That's why I can't show the wireframe of my lastest model. Is there anyway around that, which allow me to model with the whole thing (instead of half), so I can still edit the low polygon model even after I finished editing UV?
My suspicion is that you are editing her face in too high a subdiv. level in Zbrush, and that it would be easier to smooth her out at the lower levels.
Really, for a face like this, you don't really 'need' Zbrush at all, but that's not to say that you can't or shouldn't be using it for this purpose. It's just to say that I personally for instance, would be making sure my low cage was right in maya, and subdividing/undoing/repeat til happy from there.
However, If you wanna stick with Zbrush, the trick is to use each subdiv level to their fullest potential.
I think if you refine the nostrils a bit it would make the nose look more like a feminine. I don't know what your reference looks like so take it for what it's worth. The progress on your model is very nice. Good work.
I suggest you trace over your model in Maya and recreate a low poly wireframe for this head. Doing this will allow you to easily tweek proportions and just practice modeling. Starting to learn how to model in Zbrush without knowing how to make efficent models can make you become lazy at modeling and will become a major pain to overcome. I'm not trying to be judgemental or anything, I just trying to say something that might happen and to keep an eye out for. I imagine you want to be able to make models that can be animated at some point.
I think if you refine the nostrils a bit it would make the nose look more like a feminine. I don't know what your reference looks like so take it for what it's worth. The progress on your model is very nice. Good work.
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Thank you so much for the suggestion and warning. You are absolutely right, I rely on zbrush a bit too much. It's a new software for me (just got Zbrush like 5 days ago) and smoothing things out with a brush is so much easier than pulling, pushing vertexes of cage polygon all day. For my next model, I will use my good old change/proxy/undo trick to get things right before I use Zbrush to add small details. One thing in Zbrush that bothers me is that certain low polygon flaws remains in high subdiv model. Like those dent... bump... that I just can't seems to kill them. Btw, is there anyway in maya to twike around half side low polygon cage, but can see whole subdivided form? Because once mirror side the model, selecting multiple points and trying move then around becomes very painful.
Yeah, you can use the smooth proxy mirror function to achieve that. The thing is though, the state of enlightenment in subdivision modeling is when you don't need to subdivide too much any more, since you 'know' or sense how your topology will look once subdivded. So that's a state worth shooting for, and that only comes with subdividing and unsubdividing models many, many, many times
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Yes master, I shall do as you wish m(__)m
j/k. I do realize I need more practice. All of you godly talented people went through all this at some point too... at least I think. I can only wish for catching up to you people by working hard. Daz, you've been in gaming industry for almost 10 years? How long did it take you to make those gorgeous models that are in your demo reel? And how long did it take you to get that good since you first started as 3D artiest?
I made a concerted spare time effort to learn subdivision modeling about 2 or 3 years ago. Before that it was all game resolution modeling.
Alex
I'm converting to Dazism!
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Do you pay fees :P ?
Anyway, I am just so grateful that pros like Daz and everyone here are giving me crits. Crits don't get me down, in fact, how I cooked up 5 models in last week, and keep on posting them on here is due to crits. I keep pushing myself, and learn something new in every model that I made. Anyway, just to keep everyone entertained, here is my newest ugly model. Hair is ugly, skin is ugly (haven't pain texture map yet), eye ball texture hasn't finish yet well... it's just very incomplete at this stage.
let the slaughter begin
You've really got the right attitude to go on with this.
You don't need to go around saying your models are ugly though - while they may not match up with the quality of seasoned pro modellers' work, they're definitely a long way from ugly.
For this sort of stuff, I wouldn't worry about hair (unless it's for an assignment or something, and you *need* to do it) - I'd focus on just the anatomy, for example it's hard to crit the ears when their hidden by all the hair
The mouth and eyes look pretty good on this one - the nose is getting there, but there are still some shape problems, around the tip, the sides of the bridge and nostrils. Again, reference is your friend - gather and examine as much as you can - photos, illustrations, books etc.
Keep it up, you're showing great dedication and improvement!
Mine looks like a stripe of burned grass.
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Well, you've almost answered your own question there
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Mine looks like a stripe of burned grass.
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Well, you've almost answered your own question there
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So you mean I should use texture mapping for eyebrows instead of using paint hair from inside of maya?
So you mean youre using actual maya hair or paintfx?
Well, not necessarily. But If paint hair is giving you that brittle, pixellated look then yeah
So you mean youre using actual maya hair or paintfx?
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Yes sir, I do use paintfx. Well, I convert them to nerbs afterward, because I use mental ray for rendering, and it doesn't love painfx.