Teaching self maya. bwaaagggillyglyjaaargfunkit

Delaney King · Dec 2005

I locked myself in a dark room with Maya ple, lots of coffee and some exensive but woefully written books (cough, cough*officialaliasbooksshouldchecksteps*cough) only popping out to grab a better book.

I need moral support and encouragement. Its dark in here and I havent got any apparent modelling tools in here with me.

Dave

dom · Dec 2005

heya, I'm doing the exact same thing. I'm pretty ok with polygonal modelling so far, going to move on to UV unwrapping. The modelling tools aren't fantastic, so be sure to check out mj poly tools.

You know what's my inspiration? I just think of all the cool cg creatures created in maya for film. That gets me going... king kong anyone?

rooster · Dec 2005

Ive been switched to maya for a few months now and its finally starting to smooth out, to the point where I actually prefer a couple of features to the way max does it.. a couple

. You probably know the suggested plugins to use, mjpolytools/ byrons bevel (that right?), and theres a script to detatch selected from polygon object I think from highend 3d. After becoming familiar with mayas stack equivalent however I have begun to loath it.. The history function will pile up a load of useless unusable shit that slows your scene and swells your filesize, and its not always apparent in the outliner, and delete all history is occasionally untrustworthy. export selected then import into a new scene is a frequent operation in my office. I do sympathise

.

But once you mentally connect all mayas equivalent jargon and processes to the way max does it you'll be flying by in no time

nitzmoff · Dec 2005

Oh sweet Maya, how I miss thee....

Mark Dygert · Dec 2005

I started to switch, but PLE bothers me to no end. Since I was on a few mods at the time I needed something that was functional. The only thing PLE let me do was make crappy watermarked renders. I was using G-max and Milkshape to do mod work, it was disheartening but not as much as PLE.

Since a full (legit) copy of Max7 all but fell in my lap, I stopped trying to learn PLE. Functionality wins for form this time. Good luck! I know I liked what I started to use. It could see it being a really fast tool to use. I liked how it was geared more toward I would imagine a 3D should be like if I was to make one from scratch.

skrubbles · Dec 2005

I'm switching from Max to Maya as well... need to learn it for my new job. Some things I'm finding tedious. Right now I'm learning from Lynda.com's "Maya 6.5 Essential Training" which is pretty good for learning the basics of the program... unfortunately I don't think it covers UV Unwrapping, so I'll have to find something else to learn that from. I'm thinking the Gnomon DVD for game character UV Mapping should be good.

Anyway, have fun Dave.

PaK · Dec 2005

I'm planning the exact same torment iover xmas while klienluka sleeps.

rawkstar · Dec 2005

I'm wondering why people are doing this... maya is not going to be upgraded past version 7 as far as I know.

Wells · Dec 2005

you can do it!

/moral support

Daz · Dec 2005

[ QUOTE ]
maya is not going to be upgraded past version 7 as far as I know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did you get that info from? Is that reliable or did some bloke in the pub say it?

The most obvious answer is that you often need to know Maya to work in film and a lot of other forms of pre-rendered CG ( many games studios use it too ). Currently that is, unless your source is reliable.

Good luck Dave, learning new software is a pain. I'm sure you'll find the poly tools sorely lacking out of the box. There are tools available to make up the difference as stated tho.

skrubbles · Dec 2005

haven't found this yet in Maya, but I stumbled across a mel script for..... TARGET WELD!!!! O-M-G! No more, snap, move, weld. Now its all in one, like in MAX

Get it on this page:
http://www.users.on.net/~neilandbron/

Just found it so I haven't played around with it yet. Oh, and if there is target weld in maya now and I'm just stupid and haven't found it then let me know.

I'm gonna have to try and set up a marking menu to work like a quad menu. If anyone already knows if this has been done then please post a link.

rooster · Dec 2005

aah nice one! I've been snapping all my verts then just group-select welding them afterward with a tiny threshhold so-far

ScoobyDoofus · Dec 2005

I heard from a rep from Discreet as he sat in my office that they are going to continue to develop Maya & Max both as seperate products and almost nothign will change. He did say they will try to make the two programs work together in some respects.
Of course, his card says "Territory Sales Manager" so I don't know how "in the loop" he is.

Lee3dee · Dec 2005

Go Dave! learn maya! Learn to love Maya! and remeber Maya doesn't crash as frequent!:D

ps. I took u're tips and tricks for max at GDC a few years back.

TelekineticFrog · Dec 2005

I really wish I could say what I know, but I can't or I'd probably be dissapeared by some shadowy figures in the night. I can say though don't worry about either going poof.

Jeff Parrott · Dec 2005

Mr. Max is learning Maya. I'm pretty impressed. If you get stuck or need to know a certain tool don't hesitate to ask. Yeah, the official Alias books are pretty outdated. They really need to overhaul all of their books. Some recent DVDs have gotten better I heard though.

ElysiumGX · Dec 2005

I keep MayaPLE on my desktop for days I'm bored and feel like learning a little. Coming from an XSI workflow, I've found learning many of the basics in Maya to be very easy. They're similar in design. Except Maya is covered in icons.

HonkyPunch · Dec 2005

I tried learning maya once. Kinda gave up after I ended up getting headaches, and sick to my stomach after trying it too much...migraines, maybe? Now,I've tried downloading the PLE version again, but my computer won't download it fully...

TomDunne · Dec 2005

I find the Max-Maya prognostication very interesting. Does anyone have any theories as to why Autodesk would continue to develop both platforms? From a practical perspective, it seems to me that creating a unified platform would be cheaper for them in the long run (one development team, one tech support system, etc), and that a hybridization between the two would keep users from drifting off towards a third competitor. Name recognition seems like a non-factor, everyone in the industry knows Max as well as Maya. What is Autodesk's incentive to develop two products that do almost identical tasks?

malcolm · Dec 2005

Good luck, I made the switch from Max to Maya seven years ago and cringe at the thought of the stack now. I found learning Maya through the help file pretty straight forward. Also for anyone one wanting to learn pretty much any 3d app or fps shite proprietary modeling tool I suggest the video tutorials on 3dbuzz.com

malcolm · Dec 2005

mr_rockstar, I think it's funny you say that because I heard the exact same thing about Max, I think they announced it at Siggraph this year that Max will stop at version 8?

Scott Ruggels · Dec 2005

Dave, it took me two weeks to get fluent, and two more to get production quality with it, and then two years and there are still things I don't now about the program. The problem with Maya is that it is deep and secretive, and rewards a certain gearhead mentality. it also encourages specialization in tasks. I used the book Learning Maya6: Basics. and the "Quick Start" Guide. and that helped. but mostly do those, and the video tutorials (running on the second screen on the work machine and copying every lesson, no matter how stupid or elementary. Learned Z-Brush the same way.

Scott

Erol · Dec 2005

Getting marking menu motions memorized as 2nd nature was an unanticipated benefit from Maya. Selecting rings, loops and deleting/splitting with the a few quick, short mouse motions is great. Kinda like being a wizard. Of polys. Or something. (anyone know what I'm talking about or do I just sound crazy?)

Frankie · Dec 2005

How do you guys work around the selection tool selecting polygons behind the ones visible and closest to you on screen. For example selecting the chest of a character from the front would also select the shoulder blade and would carry on selecting to the character behind that and the character and so on? Do you just have go rotate the view and deselect what you don't want after the initial selection or is there another way.

firestarter · Dec 2005

Aaah, the transition! Keep going Dave, it will all be worth it. Realise the power of being able to sub-object edit two, or more, seperate meshes simultaneously!
Maya I miss you, please come home soon

rooster · Dec 2005

frankie: there is backface culling but as far as I can see its such a hasstle to quickly turn it on and off that its actually easier just to deselect manually. If I'm wrong PLEASE tell me. Same goes with displaying normals as little spiky lines- once you turn it on its like a poly disease that you just cant shake off..

edit: just so I'm not always negative and bitchy about maya, I will say that maya is pretty good at optimising stuff while keeping uvs distortion free :]

Daz · Dec 2005

Frankie: display>component display>backfaces will fix that.
edit: rooster, display>polygon components>normal turns em on', same again most definitely turns 'em off. Doesn't seem too bad?

rooster · Dec 2005

daz: aah thanks, that way is much better. Ive been doing it in settings>preferences>polygons>polygon display. -tick show normals, make an object, untick it.. still got the normals sticking out of it.

Daz · Dec 2005

That's the really silly thing about Maya by far. There's umpteen different ways to do the exact same thing. Some just more complex than others. Shit, there are 2 material editors for chrissakes.

thomasp · Dec 2005

there have been a lot of threads in 2d&3d dealing with the painful learning phase. lot'S of scripts like that old target weld were mentioned already multiple times

btw. there are scripts out there to make the marking menu context sensitive, giving you one key to press for the mm and a different mm depending on your selection.
still, even armed with all the scripts you won't be able to get modelling anywhere near... yeah you know. but hey, it's only one aspect of 3d. i've never thought of switching, more of expanding the toolset. wondering why you people think you have to leave one for the other?
are you button-pushers or are you artists?

never encountered any company that would force me to work with product X when i was able to prove that i'm far more proficient with product Y.

btw. wasn't it max where they announced a long time back that they had no plans to go beyond release 9?
also, autodesk has several more or less competing products in their portfolio, why would they want to alienate one half of customers and see them moving to another competitor?

Prs-Phil · Dec 2005

I don't know the backface culling option is very buggy, I would go for "paint selection" I found that most comfortable as a compromise.

Scott is so right about maya beeing deep, I can remember my last techdirector when he got started talking about maya he would just not stop and bombarded us with to much information to remember

. But he knew his shit and that impressed me most about the programm.
He linked it with alienbrain, the current users, the backups, coded a own company intern fileformat that was very flexible (even for animations to) and integrated the 2 engines into the programm so that we could check our stuff out anytime in any game (if you wanted to

).
Also anytime you loaded a level it would check the database for any updates on all the objects in the level and updated them and it didn't even take THAT long.
So that was a very impressive demonstration what the program can do for production.

PaK · Dec 2005

[ QUOTE ]
never encountered any company that would force me to work with product X when i was able to prove that i'm far more proficient with product Y.

[/ QUOTE ]

a few reasons:

-the tools/support staff don't have to be profiecient with solving bugs you probably will create concerning 3d assets.

-each in-house tool/exporter doesn't have to be made for more than one 3d tool. our tools engineers are having this probklem right now.

-Art Director/leads/seniors and tech artists don't have to be proficeient in more than 1 3d app whilst guiding the artists. Everyone has questions...even the pro's.

-Studios get a better purchasing price when they order site lic's and large upgrade orders of any particular app. it is infinitely more expensive to buy mostly 1 3d app and then a few extra lic's for the flaoters who refuse to evolve with the rest of the art staff.

-R

-R

Joshua Stubbles · Dec 2005

I tried learning Maya5 over a 3-4 month period, and gave up. The fact that I have to write a MelScript to do something as simple as target weld, put me over the edge

. Though I do have to re-learn Lightwave for my new job

.

As far as the Max/Maya cut-off goes, I don't think Autodesk will stop making either one. Maya will more than likely become very CG focused, while they push 3ds Max for game development. Both apps have strengths and weaknesses, so unless they merge both, I doubt we'll see either of them go away.

ElysiumGX · Dec 2005

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone have any theories as to why Autodesk would continue to develop both platforms?

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a talk with an Autodesk representative last week. He confirmed what I had assumed they would do. They'll develope Max with a focus on games, and Maya with a focus on film...since that is the strong points for each already. They may also develope MotionBuilder to work more closely with Max.

Mark Dygert · Dec 2005

Interesting, so as games become closer to movie quality what will happen?

Joshua Stubbles · Dec 2005

I think we're as close to movie quality as we're going to get, Vig. Stuff like Gears of War or Metal Gear 4 are as 'movie-like' as it can get.
I doubt that cpu's and gpu's will ever be powerful enough to push millions of polys and gig's of texture data for a single character, as most cg films do. If they ever do, I'll be old and grey when it happens

sledgy · Dec 2005

Yeah and we'll never need more than 64K of memory for a personal computer!

Illusions · Dec 2005

Everyone stop what you are doing, and go and see your loved ones and tell them how much you love them, the apocalypse is near and Dave is learning Maya!

Mark Dygert · Dec 2005

I was mostly talking about the modeling tools. It seems the line between films and games is what you do with the model, break it down into a normal map and apply it to a lower poly version. Or use it as is with some spiffy particle effects and fur. The steps take to create the model are almost the same and it really doesn't matter which program you use? Of course I have never done any film work and I am just now starting to enter into the relm of higher poly game models...

Daz · Dec 2005

[ QUOTE ]
wondering why you people think you have to leave one for the other?
are you button-pushers or are you artists?

never encountered any company that would force me to work with product X when i was able to prove that i'm far more proficient with product Y.

[/ QUOTE ]

I allready answered the first question earlier in the thread, but to proliferate, why do you see it as 'leaving one for the other' ? I'm certain this isn't Dave's goal. His goal is more likely to add another string to his bow.

If you seriously have never worked for a company that forced you to work with a particular piece of software, then I can only assume you have hardly worked at any places at all. The vast majority of places will yes, force you to work with their chosen 3D app. for many many glaringly obvious, logical reasons ( some of which PaK states above ).
Ever noticed how many threads there are in the 2D section of this board that say 'help, new job means I gotta learn x' ?!

Kraftwerk · Dec 2005

Even though i switched to Softimage|XSI some long while
ago is still like Maya it has solid Tools (even if nothing
special is here), animating is fun, Texturing even if not
powerfull works good for me. So not even the biggest 3D Max
nerd should be afraid of learning it.

Delaney King · Jan 2006

Hey Dom. I am guessing King Kong was modelled in Mirai like Gollum was. Just a guess.

Ok, so I have pretty much nailed as much native modelling stuff and mapping stuff that appears to be there. The history system is powerful but hellishly annoying... the stack is waaaaay nicer for modelling, especially working in a games environment.

I like the skinning airbrush much better than max.. if feels so much faster. The weight tools are not as complete, though. I do loathe having to use commands instead of tools... I like to see the changes occuring whilst I am tweaking values. Maya is like punching numbers into the dark sometimes. That makes learning what the buttons do difficult.

I imagine once I have enough scripts installed I could use this in a production environment. I would probably do modelling in max and z and bring it across at this stage.

Snowfly · Jan 2006

Hey Dave are you using the Component Editor to tweak the weighting? It has a nice slider on it that updates in realtime. I personally like the Component Editor (quirks aside) better than max's weight table, and I've done a lot of weighting in both.

aesir · Jan 2006

I just started learning Maya today... So far, I don't hate it.

slammer · Jan 2006

Ive been learning it for a month now and I like it then I hate then I like it then I hate it its a love hate relationship.no i like it yes thats it i do, noo wait..

Teaching self maya. bwaaagggillyglyjaaargfunkit

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