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polycounter lvl 18
a great read on a man's opinion on nintendo's business strategy
microsoft's peter moore, praises revolution controller
there have been a lot of jerk-kneed comments on nintendo's doom as of late that are annoying... anyway i created a new thread so i don't have to sift through metal gear comments.
microsoft's peter moore, praises revolution controller
there have been a lot of jerk-kneed comments on nintendo's doom as of late that are annoying... anyway i created a new thread so i don't have to sift through metal gear comments.
Replies
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Nintendo released their "near-to-final" specs again
Remember that N-Forum Magazine that was published on the internet about what the Rev will be like. It said Nintendo had 2 systems to choose from. I personally dont know if that was true or false, but this is what happened.
Nintendo does have 2 prototypes in schedule, and is going to decide some time next year on which one to go ahead with. They also said that some of the specs I have released in my other set of specs have some errors , and that this is the much satisfied spec.
Revolution Specs
System 1
CPU:
IBM Custom PowerPC 2.5 GHz with 128 KB L1 cache + 2 internal Highly customized G5 cores, 2.5 GHz each.
Each G5 core will have 128 KB L1 cache.
The whole CPU (including the cores) will share either 256 512 KB of L2 cache.
Its Dual Threaded, G5 cores to have 2 hardware threads per core, 4 Threads total
10 billion dot product operations per second
Now this seems correct to that GameInformer Magazine that published the specs, but these specs are similar, but faster
Revolution GPU
The same GPU spec as I released in my other sheet. Heres a look back on it; But unfortunatley no HD support.....
ATI Custom based RN520 core. The "N" stands for Nintendo, and is because the ArtX team is with them, that is why its an "N". There will be 2 GPU cores (just like the nVidia SLI motherboard with two Graphics Chips), this will use ATI's alternative, and will be the first in any console.
GPU cores at 400 MHz each, theoretical 800 MHz. Will support up to 2048x1268 resolution, but no HD support, so that resolution is null.
28 way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines for each core with unified shader architecture. Thats a theoretical
56 Shader pipes if combined
Polygon Performance: 500 million triangles per second theoretical, average in game would be around <100 Million/sec>
Shader Performance: 45 billion shader operations per second
Revolution memory
512 MB of 700 MHz 1T-SRAM
Revolution will support a PPU chip (Physical Processing Chip). There will be 32 MBs of its own RAM, which will link to the CPU and GPU and the Controller .
There will also be a separate sound card that will support only DD 5.1 DTS 7.1, rumours has it will have 16 MBs, like the Cube DSP
System 2
CPU:
IBM Custom PowerPC 2.5 GHz + 4 internal Power PC G5 cores running at 2.5 GHz each. Each core will have 128 KB L1 cache.
The whole CPU will share 512 of L2 cache.
Dual Threaded so there will also be two hardware threads per core, 8 hardware threads total.
15 billion dot product operations per second
Revolution GPU
2 GPU cores running at 500 MHz. Now this says there will be HD support up to the resolution as above...
Each GPU will have 256 MB of GDDR4 RAM
28 way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines for each core with unified shader architecture.
Polygon Performance: 500 million triangles per second theoretical, average in game would be around <100 Million/sec>
Shader Performance: 52 billion shader operations per second
Revolution memory
512 MB of 700 MHz Updated 1T-SRAM
Revolution will support a PPU chip (Physical Processing Chip). There will be 32 MBs of its own RAM, which will link to the CPU and GPU and the Controller .
There will also be a separate sound card that will support only DD 5.1 DTS 7.1, rumours has it will have 16 MBs, like the Cube DSP
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so dont know how reliable this is only that this guy hit the specs for the 360 on the head monthes before they were released..
Lapsed gamers? I've never heard that term, but I think it might describe me. I have to say that the Revolution is really the only next-gen console that has gotten me excited at all about the upcoming consoles.
Someone close to Nintendo mentioned a long time ago that the Rev would not be left behind by the competition's specs. I like my neo-retro style games, and hope the new tech only pushes that to new limits.
i really feel nintendo has already accomplished what it wanted to do..get people that dont play console games or video games to play..the last console i bought was a sega genesis and i always liked the sega more than the super nintendo at the time..ever since i played doom i have been a PC only gamer.. but after seeing what every company has to offer, there is only one i am excited about playing and only one i know for a fact i am going to buy.. the revolution.. so you can diss nintendo all day,.. but thier plan worked.. i showed my dad who hasnt played a game since pac man and he said "wow!, why didnt they think of something like that earlier? now i can actually play with you boys."
i have always considered nintendo the apple of the game industry.. they innovate and then the rest of the industry follows suit.. and maybe macs dont sell as well as PCs and dont have as much software but they are far from going under and are a very profitable company.. i think this new controller is nintendos ipod.. people dont want to admit it yet but even the people that post how much they dont like the design of the controller they also add in the same post "i still cant wait to try it out, even though i think it will kill nintendo.." i laugh everytime i read that..
Due to the fact that PS3 and X360 games will be written for a single thread/core for the first year, they will actually fall behind in performance behind the revolution. When you have a triple core processor, you have to make each core less functional, so when only using one it runs much slower, and then you have "helper threads".
Anyways, ever since I saw the controller I've been uber excited about the Revolution. Has everyone seen the trailer for the revolution? The one where the guy is swinging around the controller like a sword, choppin up food, etc?!! I got so fuckin excited when I saw that.
http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/651334/vids_1.html
I just wanna say that I'm happy. Nintendo played thier ace.
in regards to the controller proving itself a virtuous and fiscal success or not; only time will truly tell - i'm excited to try it out, more than the ps3 or xbox360.
i've been reading people joke about the virtua boy and power glove. i'd like to add that nintendo had nothing to do with the powerglove, the glove was lincened with nintendo, bought, hyped, and sold by mattel. a company named pax or something was doing the japanese version. but the virtua boy? yeah that was nintendo.
this is awesome. and shows how the controllers we use today developed over the past two decades. so that PS3 controller image may come true.
http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/
read about the N64 controller
as for those leaked specs, if they are infact true, then the revolution will be quite on par with sony and microsoft, if not a little faster in some respects... all packaged into a sleeker, smaller system
regardless, it's clear from the illustration in ely's post that every major console manufacturer is guilty of shamelessly ripping off nintendo. I want to see what microsoft and sony will come up with this time
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Using that logic Nintendo is guilty of shamelessly ripping off Atari by making a hand-held controller. The console (Atari) was an innovation, everything else is evolution and it's not about guilt, unless they were to take an innovation and make it worse.
the gamecube has had verry few games i've felt like trying. sure it has had a handfull of really good games, but out of my 3 current gen systems i say 10% of my game library is GC.
i also get labeled as hating things that try and be innovative. I am all for inovation.. but i am just skeptical about it.. i like good innovation.. and hate bad inovation. and face it nintendos inovation record is not really top knotch . for every suscessfull one 9game boy, ummm.... umm.... and i guess the touch thing on the ds can be counted as suscessfull- we really won't know the level of its suscess for for anouther few years) they have several other completely horrible ones (gyro bot, virtu boy, light gun, power glove, the power pad is questionable, it may be a direct inspiration to the ddr craze, but realy i don't know.)
bassicaly i'm saying if tis new goofy controler comes out and it is awesome then i will be all for it.. if it comes out, and has like 2 games to take advantage of its amazing "wave at the tv abilities" (and both of those are fishing games) then i will be less than impressed
Using that logic Nintendo is guilty of shamelessly ripping off Atari by making a hand-held controller. The console (Atari) was an innovation, everything else is evolution and it's not about guilt, unless they were to take an innovation and make it worse.
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besides the fact that the nintendo controller wasnt a stick but a pad and every other controller since has been a pad.. thats pretty much ripping it off.. nintendo invented the way we interface with consoles not atari.. two hands on either side of a pad and thumbs press buttons.. not at all how a joystick works. nintendo also invented the analog stick and the rumble pack,d-pad,top left and right buttons.. all of wich has been ripped off .. i dont remember my atari stick ever shaking when i crashed in poll posistion.. when you copy something EXACTLY its called ripping it off..seems thats whats every console company has done when it comes to controllers..
using your logic atari ripped off trees because they both have sticks
Let's see...
ROB: Just a trick to sell the NES as a toy instead of a videogame system because at that time noone in the US wanted to sell videogames.
Virtual Boy: The man responsible will never fail Boss Yamauchi again.
Light Gun: Well, some people liked it. Some arcade games still use these things.
Power Glove: That's not made by Nintendo.
Power Pad: Same.
I miss the good ol' days.
Dual Core 2.5GHz CPU (futher rumour Dual CPU Dual Core)
Dual Core ATi R520 600MHz GPU (10MB Video Buffer)
128/256MB System Ram (no one's been clear on this)
16MB Audio RAM (Same Audio Chip as the GameCube I think)
512MB CompactFlash
54Mb WiFi b/g (Compatible with current wireless routers)
DVD-RAM Compatible with both Revolution 8" and GameCube 3" Discs
You know I hope they actually release the prototype controllers. They had similar functionality to the current one, only they looked kinda like a cross between the X-Box and GameCube controller.
As far as the games go.. personally I'm not too fussed on many games on the X-Box and Playstation 2. I literally own around 10 games for the XB and PS2.. yet for my GameCube I have over 80, with more I want.
Most games for the PS2 and XB often I sit and decided which platform I want to get them on. Most games that are multi-platform I get for the GameCube..
Prince of Persia looks just as good on the GameCube, plays better (no slow down), runs in HD720, loads quicker, and was £10 less. imo I don't know why the hell people buy games for the other consoles when there are GameCube versions available.
It might be more down to which console you prefer to use, but the libraries I have for my PS2 and XB are exclusive games only really. Even then I've often found myself buying certain games for my PC instead if there is no GC version.
Honestly I don't understand why so many people constantly bash on the GameCube. All I ever hear about is the image the console has.. and you have people sitting there saying 'well I have one and it doesn't have many games'
Thing is have you ever actually taken the time to look through the libraries available. So it doesn't have GTA, or such.. quite honestly GTA3 is sodding pox on the whole GTA series. They've gone from harmless fun to trying to make the game more and more realistic. Just changed how the game felt completely.
Or Final Fantasy which Sony are hanging on-to for dear life, because the moment they let Square go back to Nintendo is when they'll loose a large market they're clinging to. God knows how FFXI on the 360 will change the market's perception of the series.
Always felt kinda ripped off that the GC finally got an FF only for it to be out-sourced. It wasn't an FF but a freaking license.. while it was a fun concept for a game; there was none of the usual in-depth story that accompanies an FF title. What riles me up more is that they gave it a childrens appearance, like that's the only type of game on the GameCube.
Whatever bright-spark decided that most of the GC games should appeal to 3+ should be shot. It makes you glad for games like Eternal Darkness, Metal Gear Solid, and Resident Evil. Games that provide a more mature content because not all of the gamers on the Cube are 3years old.
While I'll sit there and agree with Nintendo that new markets are the key to surviving, as genre in-breeding is just going to bring about sterility of the industry.. they've not exactly been helping matters by assuring developers that they can still develop thier games and capture the same audience.
That's the main issue we're seeing there. Developers are avoiding the Cube like the plauge.. not because of development costs (it has the cheapest SDK and License), not becuase of development difficulty (very easy system to develop on, the PS2 is the hardest), not the issue is purely down to the developers and publishers worried they won't reach as much of the market.
Yet what I don't understand is statistics clearly show that the X-Box and GameCube are on equal footing conserning hardware sales... and software sales (where Nintendo makes it's money), they've been selling extremely strongly.
I mean figures don't lie. So the only conclusion I've come to is that because there aren't enough GTA, and Jak style games aimed at adults on the GameCube; then publishers and developers are seeing it as a kids machine.
Yet the sodding irony is that if they bothered to release thier games on the machine it wouldn't have that image because there WOULD be enough choice for the adverage gamer.
I mean I don't see Ubisoft bitching about the sales of their games on the GameCube. In-fact Beyond Good & Evil sold over 50% of it's total sales on the GameCube.
You see a much similar pattern with Sands of Time and Warrior Within. You see the GameCube and PC actually getting the large majority of overall sales.
On the whole crap like that annoys me. Just like with the acceptance of things that are different. It's not just the Gamers who needs to be slapped in order to see there is nothing wrong with things that are new, but developers and especially publishers.
Kinda ridiculous we've got to an age where unless you've have enough hit titles over the last 2 decades as a name of the games industry a publisher will expect you to churn out the same old crap that's been produced with a slight twist cause they're afriad of loosing money.
Ironic thing is, the industry probably wouldn't be dying right now if publishers actually let developers work on what they wanted to rather than carbon copies with new toys.
Gamers wouldn't be getting bored if games were still as fresh and inventive as they were back in the 8-bit generation. Each new game often offered something unique to that game experience.
Bomberman, FIFA (before the 3D and decline of what was an awesomely fun game), Street Fighter 2 (sorry but the SNES is still the only version worth playing), Elite, Joust..
Oh and those games where you'd move a step and so would your enemies.. like a turn based action game. As games have evolved they've seemed to break away from providing fun and gameplay in favour of providing graphics and bigger experiences.
In 1996.. Tomb Raider was a 10hr game, which to most of us was an epic length for a game. It was a breath of fresh air from what was the arcade experience that was Mario.
Today a 10hr game is worthless. You play through Legacy of Kain Defiance which is about 10hrs and your left at the end wondering... 'oh is that all?'
It's the same with RPGs. Originally they were fairly lengthy, but now unless they reach like 40hrs worth of gameplay you put them down and proclaim how crap they are.
Nevermind the fact about how good the rest of the games mechanics are.
I hope that Nintendo can force a change in the industry again. Make us all see games from a new perspective again, and force publishers to allow developers to once again be creative rather than sequal driven.
then again, here in Japan the GC has broadband and nintendo are respected as an innovative and sucessfull company who respect gamers needs. Shame these games don't translate to overseas, but that's just the way it is. Sony games work for all 16 yo + players and often offer a single player experience. Still yet to find an xbox here, so I can't comment.
the gamecube has had verry few games i've felt like trying.
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Well if you haven't even bothered to try very many games, then how is that a fault of the console?
But the more I think about it, the more I can't wait for it to be released. Which is a first for me, I've never really been hugely into Nintendo.
But I've long held the belief that the joypad is fast reaching its limits. I mean, it's hardly changed at all sice the NES. Sure, more buttons have been added and analogue sticks where pretty important (Although essentially just the same as a normal D-pad only with more movement option and gradual movement). But basically it's a 2D imput, with simulated 3D across two sticks.
But this is basically a 3D mouse!
I definitely think this is the first step to creating a real replacement for the controller where we can open up whole new genres of gaming and more immersive experiences.
Revolution is actually ripping off Jesus who is the son of God (but actually is God) because he invented the cock which was the first thing man played with for fun.
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Oh yeah, well God created man in his own image which means god has a cock so he just ripped off himself... unless he created himself, in which case I'm further confused.
Remember watching little kids (or being the little kid) playing games, and how they handled the controller? Like in a driving game, you're making a tight turn, so you instinctively tilt the controller as far as you can as if that would help?
Now that could be a useful function.
then again, here in Japan the GC has broadband and nintendo are respected as an innovative and sucessfull company who respect gamers needs.
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I got broadband for my GameCube. I have awesomely wide-selection of Western titles like...
Phantasy Star Online 1 & 2, and Phantasy Star Online 3.
Erm. Yay for the western diversity. You know what truely ticks me off, is I bought Time Splitters 3 for my GameCube; then I found out. NO ONLINE PLAY.
Thought 'Sod this!' and exchanged it for the Playstation 2 version. I mean that just ticks me off, how it's the same damn game, so why is there no GameCube online support.
The same goes for the up-comming Starcraft: Ghost. I want that on my Cube, not my Box or PS2... my Cube!! But will I get to play it online with other people on thier Box or PS2 like those versions do? Oh no, for some reason the GameCube version has no online capabilities.
Sometimes I feel like travelling to Irvine and lobbing GameCube Broadband Modems at the Blizzard Offices with some people holding up a banner saying "GAMECUBE BROADBAND DOES EXIST!!"
: sighs :
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I definitely think this is the first step to creating a real replacement for the controller where we can open up whole new genres of gaming and more immersive experiences.
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It's essencially identical to Microsoft's Sidewinder Freestyler Controller.. they were definately the first to try to mainstream this sort of thing for gaming.
Yet, thing was lack of titles. So most people couldn't be arsed to split with like £45 for it. tbh even if there were mroe titles that supported it, I still wouldn't... it'd need to do some kind of jig and belittle those i've just whooped online for me to feel a controller was worth that kind of money.
I think it's good that Nintendo are going to be the first to kinda, force the issue upon developers. When technology is something you can either use or not... developers tend to sway with what works. When they know it'll be in every machine, usually you get innovation. Even if it is baby-steps.
By the way, PPUs are too expensive for consoles, Agaeia demands 300$ per chip even for bulk purchasers.
Factor 5's CEO officially denied any claims by Han_Solo that he works there
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could be possible.. but then again how do find that out??
"today microsoft confermed that XXLOVERGRRLXHOTPANTSXX does not work at the company" the did it with their new screenname butt breathalizer.. the machine reads traces of your online alias in the particles of your doodoo ...
oh yeah i forget about that machine..
i am sure he dosent work there tho.. i still wonder how he guess the specs fot the 360 monthes in advance..he has some type of connection..
By the way, PPUs are too expensive for consoles, Agaeia demands 300$ per chip even for bulk purchasers.
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Well given stuff like this works by licensing the technology; often that turns out to be cheaper. Cause they can then alter them to fit the hardware and change what they need to.
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could be possible.. but then again how do find that out??
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I was thinking that while reading IGN about it. According the same article, he showed the specs to professional developers who just 'cackled'.
Honestly I don't care who is working for whome, but from a pure developer standpoint. No-one company has a complete picture on the Revolution.
Sega CEO actually touched on this recently, mentioning that none of thier development companies outside of Japan have even been allowed access to any technology; and what they have has been limited.
Nintendo did this with the GameCube too, so it's not like they're being different from usual. I doubt the public will know the specs until Nintendo release their site for the revolution with all of that jazz.
By the way, PPUs are too expensive for consoles, Agaeia demands 300$ per chip even for bulk purchasers.
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nintendo are the only company actually make a profit on consoles. Sony break even and M$ lose quite a lot. Sometimes they will take a hit to get positioned in the market, and whe you buy an Xbox or PSP, those companies are paying for half the console. Maybe nintendo is taking a hit to claw some ground back from sony?
I doubt the revolution will be sucessfull in Europe. The marketing team there always do an half arsed job.
I've got every extra thing made for the dreamcast. Karaoke, webcam, virtua on sticks. You name it, I bought it. And yes, in most cases, only one game supports them. Here, Nintendo are forcing a funny gadget on gamers and it's been said before in this post, but I guess big devlopers won't touch it with a barge pole. I forsee some of the new houses giving it a go, along with the usual plethora of quirky Japanese titles. Wash My Girlfriend anyone?
I hope to see some pornographic and gorey titles.
This said, I wouldn't doubt seeing a new version of V-Girl. Also would expect to see a new Lula and her Sexempire. BMXXX was just bad... BAD.
The plus side of the new Nintendo mandate is they will be opening up development for just about anyone with this generation. So I think we might see a move from the Mod developer community now being able to develop for a REAL console.
The Yaroze could've been a hit if it'd been marketed properly. Even now some people still find it an awesome bit of kit. Was amazed to be able to sell mine on for about the same price I bought it. (£450)
Is that gathered from online rumours (and that one vague statement by Kaplan or Iwata, I forgot which) or do you have reliable sources for that? Because so far that seems to be mere speculation.
Tecmo already delivered a "touch the girl"-type game (strip poker with an interactive victory screen) for the DS, I'm sure they'll get something... appropriate for the Revolution.