Foreigners working in the states | and vice versa
polycounter lvl 19
Hey all, there were alot of questions and concearns in the "ritual hiring" thread about People from other countries possibly working in the states, what they need to do and so on. And also vice versa, Americans working overseas.
This topic has been touched upon in many many threads in the past, but I think it would be good to have a reference point, so everyone can kind of understand the situation. I'll let people like ror and daz do the talking, since they know way more about the laws and the ins and out of the system and what people would need to do to come to the states for work. Same goes for anyone who's from the US and working overseas. I think it would be cool to have a sticky thread where people could share their experiences about working in other countries.
This topic has been touched upon in many many threads in the past, but I think it would be good to have a reference point, so everyone can kind of understand the situation. I'll let people like ror and daz do the talking, since they know way more about the laws and the ins and out of the system and what people would need to do to come to the states for work. Same goes for anyone who's from the US and working overseas. I think it would be cool to have a sticky thread where people could share their experiences about working in other countries.
Replies
So yeah, anybody from the US applied/worked overseas? And was it easier than overseas people applying to the US, which is apparently a big pain in the rump?
I've worked with many foreigners in the past in the UK, and at present. I don't know the laws, but it *SEEMS* to be that most people can easily find work for a limited time, and that they have to prove that they should stay. If you are coming from the EU or the commonwealth, it's much easier.
For some reason in the UK you are more liekly to find work if you are younger - I believe being under the age of 26 or 28 will give you more chances, as will your level of education.
To be honest I don't know of all that much that's available right now. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
I've currently got my sights set on Canada ... as soon as I get my degree, and about another 6 months' work experience (maybe a shipped title too!) then I'm good to go for that... I took an online test on the Canadian Immigration site, basically the only thing I'm missing to get full immigration rights is work experience at the moment.
Aside from crunch times, I never eat out. I always cook my own food.
(afraid I don't know much about all this stuff hehe).
I'm just a student (hopefully starting a masters in September) but just want to get a headstart on planning what to do afterwards.
PS. Nice to see another scot around
I'm sure some of the other foreign workers here would know more, though.
-2 year degree and 4 years of work exp.
-4 year degree (no work exp required)
-50 dollar processing fee
<u>Documentation you should bring:</u>
Proof of work:
To prove work exp bring pay stubs, and most importantly letters signed by an officer of the comopany stating when you worked there, what you did, and when you left. This is very important. You have to prove 4 consecutive years of employment.
Proof of Education:
-A copy of your resume catered to the INS officer.
-The origional degree your school issued to you. Copies are unacceptable.
-Offer letter addressed to INS.
-Passport.
-Birth certificate/One more piece of govermnet or provinical ID as back up.
-Any publications that prove your work expierence or skills is great. like magaizine articles about you, or manuals from gameds wityh your name in it. Activision often does this as does VUG, so take a look.
I did all this and was in and out within 5 minutes. Get an immigration lawyer to help you, don;t use the one volition or Turbine has cuz they obviously don't know shit.
I believe ror is on an H1-B so, he can talk to you guys about that. The other visa that would work well for non-canadians is the O-1 or the J-1.
if you guys have any questions or need the number of a good immigration lawyer let me know, I know a great one.
-R
Rorshach pretty much summed up what is needed in the Requests forum,also just so you know Ror along with Daz(another forum member) are both brits,now working/living in the US they would know as they ahve been through it,ill repost what he said:-
"I'm not looking to hijack this thread but non US citizens, including Canadians should take the time to research what is required to gain entry into the US rather than just making misinformed jokes at how some companies in the US dont make the effort and some do.
Specifically, a US company cannot get a foreign national into the US without first proving they cannot get a US citizen for the position.
This entails a lot of paperwork, thousands of dollars and the applicant MUST have the education of an american degree or bachelor of science, ie 3-4 years of college / university training with a degree at the end.
IF they do not have that, 3 years of work experience counts as 1 year of college.
Also, noone in their right mind spends thousands of dollars to bring over an untested college graduate from another country.
So really, if you are not from the US, you need a degree and a shipped title and a portfolio of work that is really high end so that it is worth a company investing the same amount of time and money to get you that they could get 3 or 4 local people with.
Oh and theres also a yearly Cap to the amount of Visa's that the US government will dish out each year.
I'm just trying to make it clear why a good company like Ritual would be hard pushed in general to justify the kind of expense and hours required to bring over college noobs !
Bronco/ Marine, you would be better served trying to get some 'experience' in your native country first because no matter how understanding Ritual might be , the US government is not understanding.
r."
There ya have it kids.
John
Yeah absolutely. In a nutshell, unless you are very good *and* experienced, there is no way a U.S co. will put in the time, effort and money to get you an H-1 when they could so much more easily find an employee with a work permit. Makes perfect sense really.
My route into the U.S was generally easier than most though because I had co. behind me all the way. I worked at EA UK for a few years, then got a transfer out here. So I was on an L-1 inter co. transfer visa for 5 years, and now finally the 0-1.
To add a little to Rors info, it's important to be further armed with the knowledge that although in Britain a Higher National Diploma is often considered a degree equivalent, it is pretty much totally unrecognised in the U.S. I have an HND in technical illustration that wasn't worth the paper it was written on here.
Without a degree, you cannot ordinarily be issued with an H1-B. Which leaves an 0-1 which is an extraordinary ability visa ( don't laugh ) and pretty hard to get. These are the kind of visa's that are given out to non academics who are at the top of their field. I was lucky though in that I had a top notch legal firm and EA behind me. But it was a long haul involving tons of paperwork and gathering of material to prove that I knew what I was doing. Which was hard of course. So get that degree, kids.
I still believe that Ill go back to Britain one day, mainly for family, but I can thoroughly recommend the experience of working / living in a country you werent brought up in. I think it makes you more worldly and less judgemental all around. But a word of warning: the work culture is different from Europe. Americans seem to like to work pretty damn hard, so be prepared for more hours and less vacation time.
Originally I was going to explain that Daz was much more educated than I and that was able to rely on that to get into the states whereas my dumbass self only has a 1 yr HNC in information technology (yes you can laugh) to my credit.
Essentially, I made up my 3years of work experience = 1 year of college and 3 years of college equals a bachelors of science or degree level qualification in the states.
Daz's post sort of proves detrimental to that a notion.
Ok, all hubris & or modesty aside, I AM good at what I do, I have a smattering of college and a lot of work experience ( in relation to how young this industry is) that combined equalled an H1-B visa for me.
Speaking plainly I exagerated a little when it came to my visa application. I started my career for real in 98 when I started with Reflections on Driver / Steam (it got canned) but I stated that I had been working 'professionally' in this industry since 96 when I was working on 'royalties' with internet based companies such as Banjosoft with Kenneth Scott on HACX.
In truth, I created a limited few map textures whilst Ken created a host of quality skins for sprite animated characters like only Ken could.
The point being that I leveraged the experience I had in the face of the faceless US government while in truth I had proved everthing I needed to by creating the character skins for 90 percent of the Unreal 2 assets and 5 world sets of map textures for the Headhunters TC for Q3A for Scion itself who, through Epic, managed to get my H1-B visa approved.
The point is that when it comes to visa application you have 2 cruel mistresses. One is the company you hope to work for and while they are a hard sell, they are human and they speak your language. Number two is the US government and they are not 'your people' as they speak only in the language of 'legalease'
In regards to the government, you need to learn to talk like an asshole though not to an extent that is sheer fantasy.
I had 6 genuine years of experience and 1 genuine year of college which does genuinely equal 3 years of college which equals the equivalent of a US bachelor of science degree which equals an H1b visa.
I exagerated a little because I am paranoid and care about the welfare of my family and I hoped that would help ensure my family had a secure future... I hope you understand, but if you do not, I do not care because I understand.
Anyway, what also helped me was the large number of awards I have won over the years in both the amateur and professional leagues.
America loves awards, they help prove that an individual is at the top of the game and I have won them at every stage of
the technology arc that has stretched from sprite animation to polygon goodness.
Like Patton's speech indicated via eorge C Scott, 2nd place is hateful to an American so winning awards is a great way of proving you are at the top of your game and in my case, it helped the college professors that Epic paid, to write up documents that stated that if I had won awards at every crucial stage of technological development, then I was not just your average joe, and in fact, I was more deserving than average of an H1-B visa.
Am I something special? I doubt it, though when I've had a few, like anyone else would beleive, then yes!! I am!
The point is that points mean prizes so if you want to fly to the state on a visa, then start entering competitions and win them or at lest be 'one' of the winners as every little bit helps when it comes to your application.
There are 2 groups you need to prove yourself to.
1. You need to win a company over. This means your AD, your Lead and half the art team need to consider it a genetic imperative that you are hired.
2. You need to have enough, on paper, to prove to the government that you have the right stuff. The company you win over will be able to help via college professors and other government respected officials but you still need those fundamental 3 years of college or a combination of college and work experience and awards to help push your case
before you stand a chance of getting across the atlantic.
I consider myself lucky. Sure, I am good at what I do, and more to the point I AM a machine in regards my work pace... but there are plenty of other people around that are my equal or my superior... some of them on this board ( ya buggers!) but I got across, thanks to enough people beleiving in me to fight for me and to cause people with power to fight for me and I had some leverage.
You need to focus on creating more leverage for yourself.
It is hard, it does take time, but if you take that time and you make that effort you CAN do it and regardless of how long the gravy train lasts it WILL be an experience that you can remember fondly and use as leverage for the next place
All the best.
r.
I have a couple of extra questions now hehe:
My brother is in the US now (married to an american woman), do you think that would have any aid on my getting a visa?
Also when you talk about having a degree, do you mean a degree in the field you are applying for or does just having any degree ('real' degree, not in hamburgerology or something like that) qualify. If so, does having more than one help more?
And for the finale
Thanks again for all the info, good to hear from professionals that have actually gone through this (3D World should probably have an article on something like this if they haven't already hehe).
I'm pretty sure when the government asks for "work experience", they mean paid, consistent studio or freelance work.
My brother is in the US now (married to an american woman), do you think that would have any aid on my getting a visa?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's easier for the parent-child relations, much more difficult for siblings.
Only U.S. citizens may do this. However, even U.S. citizens may not bring siblings to the U.S. without an extended waiting period. The situation for siblings is different that taht of the parent-child as far as sponsorship is concerned.
Siblings have to wait many years before the priority dates in the sibling category of family-based fourth preference become current. Immigration benefits are only available if the priority date is current. The visa dates of the U.S. Department of State are updated monthly, I'm not sure where the website updates are posted.
Part-time or contract jobs only count for the hours you worked, of which you need to prove to INS.
http://www.h1base.com/page.asp?id=43
This information is up-to-date.
CANADIAN IMMIGRATION:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=33
US IMMIGRATION:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=34
US MARRIAGE BASED VISAS:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=35
US VISAS:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=31
Be prepared before you even approach anyone.
It involves quite a bit of information that you need to collect; job history, where you've lived and when, legal records, tax forms, record of health and immunizations etc.
In the case of a family member sponsoring you, that person needs even more information and proof that they can support you.
When I was in line at the US embassy in Sweden the guy ahead of me was sent home and told he needs to get a special permission that could take up to 6 months extra because he had been caught shop lifting when he was a kid. The guy was in his mid 30's and had his wife and kids living in the US already and they just told him "sorry dude come back next year".
Also, someone mentioned a cap. The cap is different depending on which county you live in, some countries don't even have one. Either way apply early in the year.
As a last resort there's always the visa lottery(if they still do that).
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20030425/rose_01.shtml
it's a bit old but most of the information should still be accurate.
-R