Game tester position
polycounter lvl 18
As some of you know I'm moving to Seattle in August. I'v been looking around at jobs there and found a few game tester positions. It doesn't mention pay rate. It just says competitive. What is competitive for game testing? I'm getting tired of support, and this looks interesting to me. Does anyone out there have experience with this type of job? Sage advice appreciated.
Replies
They dont get alot of contact with the actual developers.
Slayjerman has experience also locally.
Competitive wages to me says, paying enough to keep people in the seats and a cardboard roof over their heads. Most places don't want to advertise how low they are going to be paying people and with a job that is "perceived" as fun one of the perks of having the job is doing it. Since you will get such great perks they feel they can pay you less because well, it beats putting salt on fries.
In this area Seattle for entry level testers I would be shocked if you make more than 12.00 an hour 15.00 max, realistically I would expect testing jobs to be contract no bennies, and pay 9.00-12.00. I could be too high or too low. It's not like I test games for a living nor do I do demographic studies about testers. So take it with a grain of salt, it's just my opinion.
1) Most testing gigs around here are through 4 agencies.
Volt, Excell, TestingTesting123 or Parker temp services.
Meaning you will have to go through alot of bullshit with recruiters and hiring managers to get a gig. With little or no testing EXP, this will prove hard.
2) As such you will likely be working at MS, nintendo or perhaps on some no-name developer project off-site. These gigs are typically 1~3 months long, but sometimes can be shorter and unpredictable. However if you are lucky you could potentially get a 9month gig at MS, then be required to do the 100day break bullshit. Dont count on getting in the door at MS right away or get a long contract.
3) These gigs are typically $9~12 an hour. No benefits. You will be a contractor and treated as such. This is especially bad at MS & Nintendo where they treat contractors as 2nd-class employees. Meaning you will have limited access to events and areas onsite.
4) Unemployment will be your friend. Alot of testing work is "seasonal". Meaning during March through November there will be a fair amount of work and job openings. December through Feb, plan on being on unemployment unless you are lucky to get on a long-term project.
5) The job itself is easy. Point out other people's mistakes. Do not assume you know whats wrong or how to fix it. Just flag the problem and move on. As such you will likely be required to do things OVER and OVER every day until your eyes bleed and your fingers swell. Testing is not all fun. You will loathe the game you work on.
The only other advice I have is no matter what VOLT says, DO NOT take work testing at a consulting firm called VMC. That place is seriously the bottom of the barrel and anyone that has worked there regrets it fully.
feel free to email me at jpritchard(at)gaspowered(dot)com if you want any other info or horror stories.
**edit**
Meant to add that if you have any sort of ADD or inability to focus or do repeative things, you might want to reconsider.
-jerry
Meant to add that if you have any sort of ADD or inability to focus or do repeative things, you might want to reconsider.
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Personally, the reasons above and especially what you just mentioned is why I never pursued it further. Better to sell something to someone in the meantime and work on portfolio in freetime.
Why doesn't the Seattlepi post salaries with the jobs they advertise?! This makes things a pain!
I forgot to mention. The conditions that you talk about soubd better than my position right now. Sad.
Alright we return now to our regular thread in progress.
You're probally better off sticking with tech support and stupid people
Honestly, I make $2000 a month before taxes. Thats only $24k a year. Luckily my wife works and we have no kids or insane expenses. But its better than most other jobs.
Activision handles things a bit differently. Rather then applying through Volt, I was hired directly by Activision and then put on the Volt payroll.
The only relationship I have with Volt is that I see their name on my paychecks
Oh, and Activision starts at $9 or $9.50 depending on the time of year.
At many companies, entry level artists make around 30-40k (besides bay area) every other dev position (design, coding, scripting, leads, management) goes up in pay from there. All of these positions require serious serious training. You can't just pull anyone off the street and sit them down in an artists chair and expect them to be able to make art, same with programming. However, important to the process though it may be, testing is not something that requires extensive training. Someone can be better or worse at it, but you can take practically anyone and show them how to test a game, and chances are you will find someone moderately good at it. I think that justifies the lower wages.
I personally am friends with a few testers at work, I don't see them as 2nd class people in the slightest, I think they are very cool people, and the game probably couldn't be made without their help. But at the same time, I don't think their job is near as difficult as the programmers, or my fellow artists, it's just not as difficult to do.
I can also see why when a company event costs a lot per head, that the management would leave the testers off the roster. Especially if they are contract, or temporary employees. The events are mostly to maintain morale and to improve quality of life for employees you plan on keeping for the long run. Something that conflicts directly with the whole temp/contract thing.
I mean, partly I have to agree that the lower salary is justified because testers point out mistakes, they don't fix them.
At the same time though, I feel guilty saying that because testers work like fuck, they generally come in at the crunch period of a project when things are tense and dark and they work crunch hours and the earlier you start testing a game, the better that game is.
I guess, that while I have to agree that the lower wage is justified, I have to try to emphasis that game testing is a vital and important part of the development cycle and it's worth is, imo, underestimated.
I don't have many good things to say about my time spent at Lionhead, but one positive things I can say about them is that they have a dedicated testing department where the testers work more closely with each respective development team and offer more than simple input on what is broken.
The offer input on what is and is not fun also and the sooner you have fresh eyes testing your game I think the sooner you game has a chance to going better.
I mean, as talented as most of us are in the this industry, we all have tunnel vision to a certain extent, we stare at each asset or function for many many hours before it even comes together in the game and when we play with it we are studying and searching for more specific things than we should be.
I think game testing is one of those areas of our industry that needs revising a little and as everything else is leading to increased specialization as the technology increases, this may be the time to do it.
Nah. Not worth bothering. Just poop being poop.
Frank the Avenger
And I am saying contractors in general (not just testers) are treated poorly at MS and Nintendo primarily. That may not hold true to all places. I know here at GPG we in the test department are pretty much last to know on most subjects.
I definitely am grateful to be where I am, the money is not *horrible* the job could be worse and the people in general are friendly. But there are the few places where no matter what your position, it just plain sucks to work there.
Like I said, I wouldnt recommend this line of work as a career. I know alot of people who use testing position as a lillypad job to hop into another department. Its a great way to break into the industry and make contacts as well as get a feel for the whole process.
What I find to be utterly disgusting is the stories of how mistreated they can be from the regular development team. Especially programers who didn't code right in the first place. Sometimes when the testing department has to have direct contact with the the other departments, a big "Kick Me" seems to be the attitude given to them.
They also sometimes are ignored for flaws in the games pointed out. More than anynone else in the team they should be listened to in this area as they are the ones experiencing it day in and out. But no, because again they are seen as the lackeys.
Like I said. Disgusting.
Oh, and I don't think testers are 2nd class employees at all.
You have someone who is an "ok" artist in your company versus someone good. Who will you let go of first? I mean being "Ok" wont cut it just like it wont in any other position (except management.
Edit: Ok. Maybe I'm just sterile, but what does the "ok" employee versus the "good" employee have to do with tester's pay?
Best of luck with deciding to go wtih this, Tech.
Slayerjerman sent me some links and numbers. If anyone has a some good contacts for me to look into, feel free to post or PM me.
It seems that it is rare that anyone would/could advance from that position.
It seems that way to me, too, Sett. I've known people who worked as a tester first, but they had to apply to different companies to be designers. Are there many cases of testers going into dev departments within the same company?
I always felt that testing was a dead end job and this thread seems to be enforcing that opinion.
It seems that it is rare that anyone would/could advance from that position.
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I disagree, but it kind of depends on what angle you are looking at this from, and probably who you work for.
There seem to be many QA/ testers here at EARS that take the job because they think that it will get them a foot in the door as an artist. It doesn't. Forget that route.
However, many of the producers here came in from QA/test, so in that respect testing isn't a dead end job. It depends what your long term goals are I guess.
I was a tester for about 6 years (not in games). Definitely got old after a while.
I know it's a thankless job, if you don't find the bugs, you didn't do your job, if you do find the bugs, people get mad for pointing out their stuff is broken.
I think it's horrible the way some companies treat testers, but the same can be said for any position at some companies.
Mythic doesn't do temp testers, they are always invited to company events, and many times they are promoted from QA to higher positions in the dev team.
I think too many people read the wrong things into my post. What I was trying to say, is that I can take any one of the fellow artists on my team, and while we would probably be bored out of our minds, they could probably test the game (maybe a few couldnt). However it would be lucky if even a single tester could be placed in an artists chair and start producing work for the game.
I don't get upset that my Art Director gets paid more than I do, and that he is in a higher position, and gets invited to the more exclusive company functions, or gets sent to e3 or gdc before I do, it's because he his higher on the dev chain than myself. And that's why I don't understand why testers get bent out of shape when they don't get the money or the respect the artists/programmers/designers do.
What gets difficult is when you get put in other positions like a project lead or (god help us) technical requirement testing. For those who havent had the wonderful experience of working on an Xbox game, Microsoft has a 150+ page document of things that the game is REQUIRED to do before MS gives the OK to print the discs and ship it. Sony and Nintendo also have these requirements, but Microsoft is by far the most strict.
Either way, its a fun job and it pays me enough to live in California, so until I land an art gig, I'm content with testing.
(MS -TCR, Nin -LotCheck, Sony -TRC)
When I left one of the agencies they were hard pressed to find another person that knew the Xbox TCRs as well as I did. Its almost a specialized area of expertise. Not just any hobo off the street can do that stuff and I was very fortunate to have been in a position where I was able to learn that stuff, which made me more valuable of an asset than some random content tester.
Its a matter of finding your niche. For example, when I started on DS2, I was just doing general testing and data collection, now I'm the primary multiplayer tester. I have good communication with the Network engineers and they appreciate my help.
The job's only as good as you make it for yourself.
Techsmith, give it a whirl and see if it floats your boat
All Im really saying is that when portfolios come in, our AD and myself and the team checking them out dont care where theyve come from. Allready having a job in a different position in the studio is just kind of irrelevant. I've had a few portfolios land in my lap from test, and they've never been any good. I'm not insinuating anything in saying that. Im just saying that's been the luck of the draw. If somebody really thinks they have what it takes and wants to get a kickass portfolio to us, theyre far better off pinging me on polycount than by any other means if they want their stuff seen!
Except Frank. He touches artists in an improper fashion. Nobody but Ror likes it, either. But he just KEEPS ... TOUCHING ..!!
Any time testers can spend finding my errors while I'm off making new errors for them to find is time and money well spent!
I talked to the GF and she says she would rather us be happy than hating our jobs. So I guess this means one day I might be able to touch Ror in that bad way too!