Grrr....does this ever happen to you?

HonkyPunch · Mar 2005

i mean, today, i was working on a mole bartender model, i LOVED the way it looked. then, something went comepletely wrong, and the model was completely screwed up, and i couldn't do jack shit to fix it, and i just got this feeling that i couldn't do it right, so i gave up, soooo....for now, no more 3d from me for a while, just sprites and such.......eeek. Going to take me a while to get milkshape down to pat again, because the interface suddenly seems hard to remember.

ElysiumGX · Mar 2005

1. save often and frequently
2. learn how to not make mistakes
3. use better software (not milkshape)
4. see #1
5. undo button

yesterday I was hours into some modeling, but hadn't saved in a while. then I made a mistake, caused my app to crash, and lost 30 mins of good work. That was my motivation to enable autosave (but I still save often), and learn to not let the mistake happen again.

motives · Mar 2005

yea, save, save and save.. Also dont save over your one file but make several files like "molebartender_1, molebartender_2" etc. etc.

it sucks when it happen and lol i know it sucks when people tell you "why didnt you save?" but.. thats just the way it is

Daz · Mar 2005

and then save again.

Cubik · Mar 2005

And be vary of autosave. It sometimes (at least for me) crashes MAX when it tries to save and then it corrupts it's own damn save...

Thermidor · Mar 2005

I had just finnished making some alterations to the eyes on my current WIP the day before yesterday , and BOOM, my motherboard blew up. that was anoying,

Edit, ooh , i find saving each major point of progress in a new file really helps , esspecially when you look at it and are happy. so if you mess up , you can just reload your happy file

danr · Mar 2005

make sure you have more than one autosave file, then you can always roll back to a previous one if the latest gets corrupted.

spare a thought for me though, i'm currently working with 90mb max files, so Autosave is debilitating ... but you quickly learn to save, backup, save, backup.

Thermidor · Mar 2005

yeah Dan, dont know wot i would do without a dvd writer...

NuclearTes · Mar 2005

Like ElysiumGX said: Save your work often. Another important thing is not to save your model in only one single file. A single file can easily become corrupt, when your 3D program crashes or something. Make a new file everytime you've completed an important step. That way you can always go back to an older version of your model when you screw something up or a file becomes corrupt.

I don't agree with ElysiumGX about Milkshape: Milkshape is fine when you want to make low poly game characters and it supports many different file formats. Other more advanced modeling programs are useally less newby friendly. When you already have difficulty understanding Milkshape's interface you would have a very hard time figuring out how Blender or MayaPLE works. When you're a more experienced modeller you can always switch to a more professionel program.

HonkyPunch · Mar 2005

well, when i said i didn't know how to use it well, that was because when i bought milkshape, i kinda dove right into it without tutorials and tried to teach myself...bad idea. so i'm gonna read up on tutorials....and, before i post a model, i'll
tweak it until it looks best. oh, and milkshape is the only modeling system i can really afford, though i know blender is free, i'm going to get better at milkshape first. also, i make low poly models because to me they have this certain level of "charm" that makes me like them alot, cause game developers right now, just focus on how smooth it looks.......and overload the models with polygons....i kinda miss the low poly days...ah well.

Cubik · Mar 2005

Wings 3d is free too.
www.wings3d.com

b1ll · Mar 2005

increment on save = love

Steve · Mar 2005

Like Cubik said, Wings3d is free ( and vastly superior to Milkshape in my opinion ). It's also a dedicated modeller so there's not much in the way of interface to get lost in.

If you need to get your models in game Wings will also export file formats that MilkShape can read.

NoSeRider · Mar 2005

You guys use to tell me Max 3 was better then MilkShape, yet the Mesh Edit system is all that Max 3 offered. And MilkShape uses a Mesh Edit system too.

Although I agree you can get a better work flow with other softwares......but it'll drive you crazy trying to figure it out.

MilkShape will help you learn the principles, in a more clear and precise fashion.

Anything that the 1st Paul Steed modeling book shows, can be done in MilkShape.

Personally, I prefer Maya over Wings software.

http://www.alias.com/eng/products-services/maya/maya_ple/index.shtml
Once you get use to MilkShape, play with the PLE version. I think I took to it faster because the work flow menus seemed similiar to MilkShape, which is blasphemy, but that's how I feeeeeeel.

Steve · Mar 2005

Does Milkshape have a proper 3d view selection mode yet?

( I know it sorta had one last time I looked but it was so clunky as to be almost unuseable.)

NoSeRider · Mar 2005

Have to do it orthogonally. Which is good practice anyway. Gives you a better understanding of contour and form.

You can select vertices in 3D mode, but you still have to model orthogonally......you still model orthogonally in Lightwave, don't you?....I'm asking.

Steve · Mar 2005

No idea mate, never even opened LW.

I'm not having a go at Milkshape honestly, it's what I started with as well but the lack of 3d selection used to do my nut right in. I seem to remember a plugin that sorta worked but it still meant having to jump between the plugin screen and the main app which wasn't ideal.

If I was starting all over again I'd use Wings or one of the freebie editions of the big apps and save myself a lot of pain.

Joshua Stubbles · Mar 2005

I can't stand auto save, since it causes a 3-4 second app hang in 3dsmax. I just save and check-in to Alienbrain every 10-15 minutes.

Noserider - I used edit mesh all the way up, until about 7 months ago :P. Max 3 might have been edit-mesh only, but it's tools and workflow still allowed you to work 20x faster than Milkshape can/will ever be.

If you're only doing character modeling, Jimmies, I'd take Nose's suggestion and try out Maya. It's quite good for organic modeling. If you're doing architecture or level building, I'd avoid Maya at all costs, and go with 3dsmax. Max just feels at home when it comes to building inanimate objects.

NoSeRider · Mar 2005

I don't get it. I just downloaded Wings3d and the interface looks like a nightmare to me.

Work flow in MilkShape seems similiar to Maya or Max to me.

KDR_11k · Mar 2005

Any interface meant for advanced users will seem like a nightmare to a newbie. Try opening Blender for the first time, THAT is confusing!

Personally I'm working in a hybrid style between edge extrusion and box modeling. Try doing that in MS3d at a decent speed. When game models went from 1.5k to 3k I thought there was no way I could keep up. At the same time I switched to Blender and now I do 3k faster than 1.5k in Milkshape, I'm sure going to Wings would speed that up even more (well, if I migrated to complete box modeling, Wings doesn't seem to work well when you have manifold models somewhere in your work process.

Additionally, Blender does backup saves (number adjustable, defaults to one) and autosaves (separate directory) per default so it's usually on when you need it.

NoSeRider · Mar 2005

Newb....pfff.

MoP · Mar 2005

NoSeRider: Workflow in Milkshape is similar to working in Max 4 years ago.
Wings3D is similar to modelling in Max's editable poly toolset today.
Maya seems _slightly_ behind Max on the polymodelling toolset (I use both Max and Maya on a regular basis), but it catches up with most of Max's default tools once you add a couple of free custom MEL scripts. It also has a couple of things Max lacks, but they're not really what I'd call "integral" poly modelling tools.
If you're still building models vertex by vertex or creating faces by clicking on vertices, you're living in the past. If you're extruding edges, dividing edge loops and cutting new detail in, you're probably fairly up to speed.

NoSeRider · Mar 2005

I got to practise on my Edge Loops, but I've done everything else you described.

Hell, my teacher doesn't even know how to UV map.

Newb is a relative term.

CheapAlert · Mar 2005

I switched from Milkshape to Blender and now i'm better than ever, the results are obvious in my recent works compared to my 02's, and I find it fun to model now, before I used blender I had to cylinder-mesh shite together, and it felt like extreme torture.

NuclearTes · Mar 2005

Well, eventually it are not the tools that make the artist; patience, effort and practice do. Just choose an application you're comfortable with; it's all a matter of personal preference anyway. Some programs have more advanced tools than others. They can make the job a bit easier for you, but only when you've learned how to use them.

Marine · Mar 2005

maya rocks, i can switch viewport and it dies! that's the kind of feature which can break the artist.
modo's fun, but it's taking a while to understand, i'm guessing that's it lightwave history coming through, i never really understood that either

ElysiumGX · Mar 2005

I've used Wings for so long, and became rather quick at it. But now that I'm using XSI's workflow, I can't use Wings anymore. When I learn to model quickly, it becomes habit. So I can't work in Wings without accidently using the XSI hotkeys. And the 3 button mouse navigation is frustrating with switching from the two.

But anyway. Wings is definately a cool app to try. For free, you can't lose. The autosave has helped me many times.

Steve · Mar 2005

Elysium, I'm the same in that my brain / hands find it hard to get used to two different sets of controls for anything.

Using Wings at home and XSI at college got confusing so I kinda migrated to XSI full time for now, Wings still rocks though.

pior · Mar 2005

Nose, yeah Wings can be surprizing at first. But the whole point of the interface is that... you don't use the interface.

I *think* that what you need to do is :

having a clear idea of what you wokflow is (preferably edge-division oriented since wings does not allow gaps in meshes) > look for the few tools you need > customize these tools keybindings to your liking.

This one last step is piece of cake since you can do that on the fly by pressing 'insert' when the command is highlighted if I remember well.

You will love the 'tweak' tool!

Daz · Mar 2005

Btw, anyone know of a Maya mel script that replicates Wings tweak?

nealb4me · Mar 2005

I'm an XSI user primarily and I have noticed a quirk with the autosave. I have it set to save every 5min, with 4 copies. Sure enough it saves every 5min but when you check the file, it's from no less than an hour ago. wtf. Therefore I don't trust it anymore, anyone else have that? Elysium?

Rick Stirling · Mar 2005

And anyone know of a max script that emulates the Wings3d/Silo tweak?

It is the most useful vert tool every.

Grrr....does this ever happen to you?

Replies