Constantine
polycounter lvl 18
Well, just got back from watching the movie and I was suprised in how much I liked it. I really wish they didn't cast Keanu for it, but whatever. I loved the androgynous casting they did, though. Realy nice touch. Also, I heard about Gavin Rosdale and I was kind of dreading him, but I liked how he turned out. The Perfect Circle song is pretty good, too.
I never really read much of the comic, but I do love all the backstory and such and such about demons and hell and angels and stuff.
Anyways. Anyone else with any thoughts?
I never really read much of the comic, but I do love all the backstory and such and such about demons and hell and angels and stuff.
Anyways. Anyone else with any thoughts?
Replies
I was uncertain about seeing that Shia LaBeouf kid in the movie, because, like most teenage actors, is annoying as hell. This movie wasn't an exception either, but I was okay with him by the end for obvious reasons (those who have seen the movie will get why too).
Just to let all Hellblazer fans know they've changed Chas into an annoying teenager, yup, John's oldest and most loyal friend. Dammit, they could of just made the kid into a new character instead of making him Chas. My only hope is that the kid and the female cop both horribly in the end to keep with the spirit of the comics.
[edit] Oh yeah, I forgot this is a comic book movie. I'd say that it's probably the best comic book movie I've seen, but I can't say how well it lives up to the comic; I'm not a comic book guy.
*MINOR SPOILER ALERT*
Also, I thought the whole "our main character is cool because he smokes but we're going to be responsible and show you the consequences by giving him lung cancer" seemed a bit contrived and corny (especially the part in hell where it zooms in on the Surgeon General's warning). I'm not a smoker, but that whole lung cancer thing seemed tacked-on... at least they did a decent job of tying it into the story.
He's an actual chain smoker in the comic. Although I didn't read enough to know if the very end is faithful to the comic.
JKim3: "Hey Dan, can I put my hand inbetween your knees and grab something to eat?"
Me: "Sure, go ahead"
.....silence.....
LAUGHTER.
Ok it's pretty lame but it was very funny in that particular moment.
1. Developed key plot points in the story
2. anyone but keanu
3.Racheal Weiz Nuidty
3.Racheal Weiz Nuidty
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Second
I loved how Hell was visualized. Probably the best Hell I've seen in a film. I loved how Lucifer was portrayed. Perfect! I loved Rachel Weisz's wet T-shirt scenes. I was surprised by Gavin's excellent performance.
Buying the DVD asap!
John Constantine is supposed to be a wise cracking, chain smoking, barroom brawling british chap who just happens to be able to be able to whip demon butt too. Cocky. Hard drinking. Smart ass. This just doesn't sound like Keanu to me, so what the heck was the character like in the film? I'm guessing Keanu's standard blank slate character that people mistakenly read depth into. Am I wrong?
Frankly, the need to refer to anyones dislike of Keanu being due only to a chip on the shoulder sounds like you have an aversion to reality or... hey are you part of some weird internet Keanu motivation kickback scheme or something?
Btw, I have not seen the film. Mostly because I have read the comic and the character since he first appeared in Swamp Thing and it's my understanding that he epitomised the fear and horror of the 80's in britian under the rule of Thatcher and every writer that has written him has always used him as a soap box to speak out against the system and government in britian.
So the prospect of watching america misunderstand another british story like they did with the League of extraordinary gentlemen was something I considered likely. When I heard Keanu would play him and that he would be based in the US and then I watched the trailer of him with a pump action golden cross, that was enough for me to decide not to support it by giving 'it' money, my money!
I've been reading the thread just in case it turned out ok, afterall, I have similar feelings about Ben Affleck and still took the gamble and paid to see Daredevil and enjoyed it though that was an American story.
I personally just don't think Americans can do stories that are British and have the heart of the story remain British and thats why I generally avoid films like this.
I still haven't read any glowingingly positive Brit writeup about it that has read the comic so I'm avoiding it.
hmm... did I just explain a bunch of shit again that noone was interested in hearing? Nah, not me!
Oh and btw, I'm not one of those people that can't stand it when a story goes from book or comic to cinema, I loved Trainspotting and read the book, I loved Daredevil and Spiderman and Xmen.
Perhaps he could be a better actor if given the chance to play better roles. I liked Devil's Advocate. Calling Keanu a terrible actor is unfair to the hundreds and hundreds of other terrible actors in Hollywood.
I think this one will be interesting to watch.
http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/ascannerdarkly.html
There was A Walk in the Clouds, which sucked. Also one with Charlize Theron, I think, where she was a dying chick or something (not Devil's Advocate).
Keanu has three more movies in production in which two of them he plays a cop, and the third is with Sandra Bullock.
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Well then, if the crime movies are going to be believable, the criminals had better win, because there is no way that Keanu would be able to outsmart them, or even be able to act like he's able to outwit them.
the criminals had better win, because there is no way that Keanu would be able to outsmart them
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he is also the criminal
every actor has his trademark style. while I agree he isn't an award winning actor yet, i do enjoy his characters. they're calm, collected, and laid back. and after reading articles about the kind of person he is in real life, i can't help but like the guy.
Ror: We seem to have a problem here. If you can't write your views without insulting me than don't bother. Comments like "hole in my brain" "aversion to reality " and reference to bad taste are offensive and unnecessary. Please restrain yourself.
On a slightly different note, I think a lot of Keanu's problem (such as it is) stems from the roles he's most popularly associated with. Starting out with Ted 'Theodore' Logan didn't help, he spent time pretending to be a surfer dude in Point Break, and Neo was a largely clueless character through the Matrix. On the other hand, I don't read people giving him too much grief over Devil's Advocate or My Own Private Idaho, but I'm guessing far fewer people saw them.
I'm not particularly a Keanu fan, but I do feel compelled to point out that in two unrelated movies he's played a former Ohio State football quarterback. That gets him a few bonus points in my book ;D
That was meant to make it clear I was being glib; no need for you to get all defensive, I wasn't really attacking you, I was making fun of Keanu, Mop didnt need to get all defensive because you suggested an opinion counter to his with more strength than he so why should you get offended when i do the same?
Verm: Jeez, get sensitive or what?
I love how in general anytime someone points out the difference in tastes between brits and yanks , yanks get all bent out of shape. I mean I do not love it and I find it tiresome.
Malekyth pointed out to me a while ago that Chomsky once said that America is the only country to have come up with a term like 'Anti American' whereas if the term Anti Italian came up in Italy it would be treated as ridiculous.
The constant overly defensive attitudes I keep running into here make this notion seem genuine to me.
It really is impossible to say any other culture does something better than america without americans, in general, getting bent out of shape.
I was trying only to say that America always fucks up British stories because they make it American. By the same turn I haven't seem many other cultures manage to do the typical optimistic american actioneer story without screwing it up because they can't take it seriously.
But I have to spell this out each time right? Because I can't just point out a fault with America without digressing to the Point of view that others have faults too...
There now you have
Regardless of the Brit Yank thing I think most movies adapt comics poorly (who doesn't?) Until X-men and Spiderman came along I had no hope of it ever happening. (As of now I have stupidly high hopes for that Batman movie)
I enjoyed the "Gentleman" movie, but I had never, ever read or even knew it was a comic, much less an A.M. comic. That has to have a lot to do with it!
People need to notice the
Now if they make an "American Flagg" or a "Nexus" movie, I will be the harshest critic
Heh Dukester, I also have stupidly high hopes for the Batman movie... I hope they don't get dashed!
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Me too!
The trailer looks good and serious enough to keep my fingers crossed!
i think out of the best current American writers, directors, producers, there is more than ample talent and sensitivity to properly produce a 'British story' like Hellblazer. needless to say i don't think they were the ones that were actually involved in the film.
American movie producers don't have a monopoly on making bad films... but then Jerry Bruckheimer still has a few years of producing left in him
i haven't read Hellblazer but i wouldn't mind taking a crack. it's interesting to hear about how current events tend to creep their way into comics, such as how our good friend Thatcher also provided ample 'inspiration' for Moore's V for Vendetta.
dont worry ror, im interested
also, if constantine was a bar brawling brit in the movie more people proabbly would have gone to see it. its movie producers who assume that people want everything americanised. but then again from this thread it seems that they were right
What can I say, considering that Disney has been doing nothing but lifting european stories for the last couple of decades or so and that this trend has been continued in cinema in America outside of Disney for the last decade, its hard not to imagine America as a place barren of ideas.
I understand all too painfully about the risk aversion atmosphere of big business, afterall, I work in it and have for a while.
Being a fan of cinema however has informed me of many more movies where America lifts other cultures movies and produces an inferior version of them, than instances where other cultures are lifting american films and doing likewise.
Also, the amount of times I have seen movies where American directors can capably create a non american story , set in a non american place is very rare. Off the top of the head the only one that comes to mind right now is Gosford park which was absolutly fucking brilliant and shockingly good all the more so because of how rare an occurance that is.
On the other side of the extreme though, when it comes to foreign directors making quality films to as high, and sometimes a higher degree of quality than american directors, I can think of more examples.
Such as Once upon a time in America, Once upon a time in the west, Chinatown, American Beauty.
Sure, sure, the studios make directors do the 'bad thing' and theres a gigantic amount of 'native talent' , but thats not my problem, my problem is that I dislike seeing quality stories, that are rich because of their different cultural qualities, constantly homogenized in the same standard american hollywood, yahoo flavour.
I love The Coen brothers, the are probably my favourite directors on the planet right now as they have amazed and amused me as long as I can remember, I adore Wes Anderson's films, his constantly quirky search for the self, problems of being clever films always surprise and impress me.
I'm trying to explain that my viewpoint is not borne out of simpleminded anti american generalizing, far from it. I love many many american films and I always buy them and put money in the hands of those directors I wish to see more from rather than merely renting or downloading warez copies.
My main love in cinema is the ability for it to convey a different flavour of life , to tell more than 1 story and when the trend of american studios ( is it fairer in your mind for me to blame the studios? I'm trying real hard to make what i consider a serious point here without triggering that 'oh you just think you are superior and are anti american response)
when remaking other cultures films is to just make whatever it is , into the same old story im sick of, well I have to have a bit of a rant about that because I hate that.
As a result of my dislike of the trend, i keep searching further and further back for films. At the moment I'm watching the James Cagney series of gangster films like Public Enemy, White Heat and so on and they;re brilliant as they show a much richer and interesting side of america than current films do.
See, I'm appreciating american cinema again!
Verm: Jeez, get sensitive or what?
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Not at all, mate - I was just being glib
I think gauss pretty much makes the point I would have. America makes more movies than any other country and gets much wider distribution, so it stands to reason that there's more crap being spread about as well. Loads of British movies might be complete shit, but I'll never know because no one is showing them over here.
Really, I don't think there's any need to cite any culture as adapting another culture's art/literature/whatever well or poorly. Good movies are good, bad movies are bad. I mean, as comic book adaptations go, last year's Catwoman makes Constantine look like a goddamn Oscar winner. Catwoman is an American property rather than British, but that didn't keep it from being five reels of complete ass.
Personally, I'm a big fan of authenticity, regardless of which nation-states happen to be involved in the project. Given my choice, I'd rather John Constantine had been played by a Briton. He's frankly more interesting that way. Similarly, I don't want to see Natalie Portman playing Evey in V For Vendetta if I could get Keira Knightley. But I can't see pinning the 'Americanization' of the Constantine character on the nation in general - it's the fault of Hollywood suits. You know, the same guys who thought Catwoman was a good idea. They have no idea what the fuck people want to see, which is why so much film is unwatchable detritus. America, in my experience, has no problem with 'accurately' adapted foreign material. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was quite popular here. Heck, the Lord of the Rings saga was a fairly faithful adaptation of an English author, developed by non-Americans in New Zealand. It's safe to say Americans liked those films alright.
The United States has about 300 million citizens running about inside her borders; I think it's a bit off the mark to think Hollywood and the adulterated or uninspired films it offers somehow speaks for them.
Ror: so that's glib is it? Jeez, even your apologies are annoying. I guess I'm starting to like you.
Grindy, Mop, Vermillion, Duke...you guys are great....this post keeps getting better.
though JKR is much more involved with the Harry Potter movies than other authors. where was Garth Ennis to say "No you cannot cast Keanu Reeves as Constatine. There are plenty of good British actors to play the part."
i know Allan Moore didn't care what they did to the League of Extrodinary Gentlemen movie as he considered it completely seperate from his comics. so then you get Tom Sawyer because the studio didn't think Americans could relate to a movie that didn't have any Americans in it.
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Originally, Tarsem Singh was attached to direct with Nicolas Cage to star. However, the director said that "With Cage, I can not make the film I had wanted to". Soon after Singh left the picture, Cage did as well.
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According to the director at the 2004 Wizard World Convention in Chicago, the decision to make John Constantine an American was made because Keanu Reeves was cast in the part and it was felt he couldn't play a convincing Brit.
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from imdb.com
so it could have been worse
though the Brits have struck a blow back at Americanization since Bruce Wayne has been made British for the new Batman movie. Constatine from Brit to American... Batman from American to Brit... the British have won this round.
Keanu Reeves was cast in the part and it was felt he couldn't play a convincing Brit.
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Now, I wish they had figured that out before they asked him to play one in Bram Stoker's Dracula...
Verm: I'll just agree to disagree with you.
Mop: Or even before this when he played a role in Dangerous Liasons, or Much ado about nothing...