Stuck: My Topology Journey Has Hit a Wall

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  Neox grand marshal polycounter

  Aug 25 2025

  Show us what you're struggling with 

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  Gikkio polycounter lvl 10

  Aug 25 2025

  Neox said:

  Show us what you're struggling with 

  
  The problem isn't so much about a single mesh but about a process. Over time, trying to improve, I've actually gotten worse in terms of topology.
  I used to model much better, even if I wasn't improving.
  https://www.artstation.com/andrea_g
  Here's what's left because I deleted everything out of frustration over time. ;(
  
  The models aren't as they should be; I don't know how to explain it, they're "soft." The mesh that makes up the mesh isn't clean. It's poor. And I can't do anything anymore.
  
  To explain, I can only show you the process.
  
  I drew this little gun, for example, as an exercise now.
  
  Then I started.
  I model as in real life, breaking things into pieces when necessary.
  i post the image, they are numbered. THE FIRST ARE THE LAST  
  
  I started with simple primitives.
  
  Then I detailed them, then I created the first geometries.
  By pretending to add detail to the mesh, ( and it's still a POOR mesh) , I lose COMPLETE control of the edge loops and topology.
  I find myself moving individual vertices to give them the shape I want, but I can't do it and everything becomes more messy, messy, and chaotic.
  I don't know how to do it, I don't know what to do, or how to get back on a path that allows me to learn.
  I apologize if I'm being a little dramatic, but the frustration has been great and has been going on for a long time.
  thank you for your time
  
  
  
  

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  kanga hero character

  12:56AM

  You can model the gun using sub division (sub-D) modelling or non sub division modelling (non sub_D hard surface modelling). Look up both these definitions on the web. With both forms of modelling you have to have a strategy that works toward an end result. The image you are working over has some nice details but you ignore them in your block out. Particularly the end of the barrel and the back of the top assembly.
  
  There are loads of tutorials available for just this. You can learn everything you need from the interwebs. When following tutorials you need to be flexible and search for principles that work for you. Don't just look for guns, look at any mechanical modelling you can use as a solution, often they might offer ideas and methods for one part and you may need a few until the light comes on and you get the feel of modelling.
  
  Look for the  principles of sub-D and non sub-D modelling. An example :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-u3APkEVH0

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  Gikkio polycounter lvl 10

  1:01AM

  
  

  kanga said:

  You can model the gun using sub division (sub-D) modelling or non sub division modelling (non sub_D hard surface modelling). Look up both these definitions on the web. With both forms of modelling you have to have a strategy that works toward an end result. The image you are working over has some nice details but you ignore them in your block out. Particularly the end of the barrel and the back of the top assembly.
  
  There are loads of tutorials available for just this. You can learn everything you need from the interwebs. When following tutorials you need to be flexible and search for principles that work for you. Don't just look for guns, look at any mechanical modelling you can use as a solution, often they might offer ideas and methods for one part and you may need a few until the light comes on and you get the feel of modelling.
  
  Look for the  principles of sub-D and non sub-D modelling. An example :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-u3APkEVH0

  
  Thank you so much for your help and for your link.
  
  I'll dig into what you wrote right away and watch the video.
  
  In the meantime, I'd gone a little further with the example work.
  I think this is my best.
  However, if I start adding details, holes in the mesh, or small extrusions, I think it'll be a DISASTER in terms of artifacts.
  
  Now I'm going to study what you told me, thanks.
  

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  FrankPolygon grand marshal polycounter

  9:44AM

  @Gikkio Although there is some overlap in the basic art, observation, and problem solving skills required: concepting and subdivision modeling are different disciplines. While it may be possible to learn both at the same time it tends to be easier to focus on mastering each discipline separately.

  
  

  It's generally recommended to practice hard surface subdivision modeling by recreating real world objects, with a lot of detailed reference material, instead of working from concept art that's vague or open to interpretation. This approach to learning from real world objects tends to make it easier for other artists to provide objective feedback that's focused entirely on the technical aspects of subdivision modeling.

  
  

  Concepting can be done in 2D or 3D. Whether to start with one or the other could be it's own debate but one of the bigger challenges is that critiquing concepts and providing useful skill building feedback tends to take a lot of time and effort. So it's often more difficult to find artists willing to provide in-depth feedback on concept art. Especially when just starting out, because the supporting illustration or modeling skills also tend to require a lot of development.

  
  

  When it comes to the existing concept: there's a few shapes and depth queues that could be developed further to visually suggest functionality. Both the concept art and subdivision model could benefit from further iteration based on comparison to or inspiration from real world references.
  

  
  

  Something that can really help with building both of these distinct skill sets is to spend more time iterating at each stage of the project and analyze the results on your own, while also asking other artists for feedback, before moving on to the next step in the process. Take the time to really break things down and try different approaches or shape configurations and compare the results both to each other and similar real world objects.

  
  

  At this stage of the block out the only real concern is testing which shape configurations have the most dynamic visual impact and plausible functionality. This basic block out could be iterated on several more times, by drawing additional inspiration from real world references and evaluating the model from different points of view (first person, third person, inventory screen, etc.)

  
  

  Below is a quick example of a basic block out that follows the primary forms in the concept art and a second block out that further refines some of the shapes and adjusts the proportions around the grip and guard to match something from the real world.

  
  

  
  

  
  

  For the modeling process: consider spending more time in the block out phase and try to capture all of the primary shapes before adding any support loops. That way it's a lot easier to test different ideas without having to manage a lot of complex support loops and the final shapes can guide the loop routing. 

  
  

  Here's a link to a write-up about block outs and incremental progression for subdivision modeling: https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2751240/#Comment_2751240

  
  

  Below is an example of what an iterative block out process could look like. Start by defining key features like the barrel and slide then add additional shape details that create some visual separation between the surfaces. Create the basic outline of the frame and grip shape then use a series of bevel / chamfer operations to create softer shape transitions and round overs. Non-destructive workflow elements can be used to speed up the initial block out while also keeping things editable for easier shape refinement.
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  Efficent subdivision modeling really comes down to keeping things as simple as possible while accurately representing all of the primary forms. The goal at this stage of the block out is to just create a basic mesh that has all of the larger forms and enough space around the shapes to create a clean path for support loops to flow around the shapes.

  
  

  Here's a link to a write-up that covers how to manage some of the tradeoffs between mesh complexity and shape accuracy: https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2751340/#Comment_2751340

  
  

  Once the basic block out is complete, support loop paths can be added around the edges that define the larger shapes using basic modeling operations like inset or bevel / chamfer. Modifiers can also be used to streamline this part of the process by using edge weights and vertex groups to control the placement and width of support loops generated by bevel / chamfer operations.

  
  

  

  
  

  After the primary features in the base mesh are locked in with support loops around the major shape transitions, move on to adding smaller secondary shapes and tertiary surface details, using the existing geometry to support the intersecting shapes whenever possible. 

  
  

  Here's a link to another write-up that covers how to analyze and plan out shape intersections: https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2776197/#Comment_2776197

  
  

  Keeping the base mesh relatively simple and using an iterative block out process to work from the larger primary forms to the smaller secondary forms and tertiary surface details helps keep the mesh clean and well organized. While also avoiding the time sink of having to re-work the larger shapes after the details have already been added.

  
  

  Another thing to consider is that certain types of surface features can be added using "floaters" (detached floating geometry). Just be sure that there's enough room around any detached features for the flange that's used to blend the base of the detail into the underlying surface.

  
  

  

  
  

  Recap:

  -Focus on developing specific skill sets independently of each other. Multiple skills may be required to complete a specific project but try to break the entire process down into digestible parts and seek feedback on each of the required skills before moving on to the next stage of a project.

  
  

  -Dedicate more time to iterating on different ideas and shapes during the concept and block out phase. Try to accurately represent the shapes in each part of the object in a way that visually defines and clearly communicates their function.

  
  

  -Block out the primary forms first, keep the mesh as simple as possible while still holding accurate shapes, then add secondary shapes and tertiary surface features in subsequent modeling passes. Let the larger shapes guide the loop flow around the model and use the existing geometry of the larger shapes to support shape intersections and smaller details whenever possible.

  
  Some links to additional hard surface subdivision write-ups with animated workflow demonstrations:
  https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2779584/#Comment_2779584
  https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2777123/#Comment_2777123
  https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2780536/#Comment_2780536
  

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  Gikkio polycounter lvl 10

  12:33PM

  FrankPolygon said:

  @Gikkio Although there is some overlap in the basic art, observation, and problem solving skills required: concepting and subdivision modeling are different disciplines. While it may be possible to learn both at the same time it tends to be easier to focus on mastering each discipline separately..

  
  

  I've been frequenting various forums for a long time, and this makes me realize how much added value it truly is. 
  What forums can produce, no video or social media can match. I was asking for help on which direction to take because I was lost, and you even wrote a guide on where to go. I thank you so much. 
  
  For the incredible quality of your post, but above all for the time you took to help me with my problem. I have no questions, everything has been answered, and now I just need to study and follow the path that I now know is the right one. My mind is now at peace Really, thank you so much for your help and the equally amazing links. Best forum I've ever been on. I hope one day I can return the favor by helping someone here. Thank you all

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