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[Sculpting Issue] Primary, Secondary and Tertiary Shapes ???

Kyle_butler
Kyle_butler
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Kyle_butler polycounter lvl 11
Hi all! 
I'm studying 3d sculpting for more time than I'd like to admit but some concepts that may be quite simple/obvious for most are not  clear to me... I believe maybe I'm not cut out to this, at least professionally, but I'd like to improve on sculpting as a hobby.

Could someone please share an example (on a human face) of Primary, Secondary and Tertiary forms? 

The feedback I keep getting in my sculptures is "you lack secondary details" but I really don't know what those are...  

I found two images online of this concept on aliens, but it remains elusive to me.






 Thanks, guys!

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  • Alex_J
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    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    i wouldn't get too hung up on definitions because its not standardized so everybody has their own ideas what things mean.

    Maybe you could show examples of your own process and describe the major steps that you take? What is the goal for each step? Why do you do the steps in such and such order?

    In context of a head sculpt - to me - primary means the major planes are such that we have a believable figure. It seems that there is a skull, cheek bones, eye sockets, jaw, etc.

    With only the primary forms anybody knows what it is and upon immediate viewing wouldn't think, "somethings weird about that head."

    Secondary is any important details needed to make it look good but don't define the silhouette pretty much.

    Tertiary / details is just surface level stuff. FInishing touches.

    Personally I don't care for jargon because I think its often just used to feign expertise, or it just creates miscommunication as people believe they have a common understanding but don't. Unless its a team working together and have defined a standard language, seems like it causes more harm than good. JMO
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  • Kyle_butler
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    Kyle_butler polycounter lvl 11
    Hi, Alex!
    Thanks for your in depth answer.
    I'm trying to assimilate to feedback I've been receiving before posting it, do you mind if I share with you as a private message?

    And yes, the jargon indeed makes things more confusing sometimes.... Maybe people have been trying to politely say that my sculpture is too crude or needs more work, and instead say it lacks secondary forms lol



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  • Alex_J
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    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    Listen, we are all stupid, confused, insecure, bad breath, bad hair, bad personality weirdos, and virtually everything we do ends in failure. That's normal. So don't let some other random weirdos feedback get you down. Just consider if there is something useful in there to try or not. To the other person, you are just text on the internet. They are not thinking very deeply into anything. Even if they actively hated you and wanted to punch you, they couldn't. So there's nothing to be upset about.

    There would be much better people to get scultping / anatomy feedback than from me though. Maybe give 3d showcase subforum a shot? Sometimes you need to consistently post for awhile before others will start chiming in.
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  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    Its rather simple secondary forms for face are features. nose eye mouth and so on Might be easier if you think of them as a layered cake or a stair step
    one live on top of the other and 3rd live on top of the second .Example teeth cylinder is your primary form lips will be secondary and wrinkles on the lips will be tertiary Its all form so how you structure it its up to you


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  • Brandon.LaFrance
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    Brandon.LaFrance polycount sponsor
    I think this FlippedNormals video does a pretty great job of getting the point accross:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKstQNoI2w0

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  • Kyle_butler
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    Kyle_butler polycounter lvl 11
    Hi, Guys! Thanks so much for the answers! I'm sorry taking so long to reply.

    Alex_J  Thanks for the kind words and for the perspective. Yes, sometimes everything seems overwhealming so is nice to keep that in mind. 

    In this particular case, I took feedback from 2 very nice artists who went out of their way to help, so I really think they had good intentions, but I totally understand your point.


    carvuliero That's a pretty simple way to visualize, I appreciate it! 

    Brandon.LaFrance  Wow! That's a pure gold! Thank you for sharing!!! they have two nice examples in the video as well! 

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