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Helping a large group transition from 3DS Max to Blender?

Elarionus
Elarionus
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Elarionus polycounter lvl 3
So a while back, the group I work with was going to switch to Modo, and the transition was mostly painless because you immediately were granted with a UI that asked what you wanted for camera controls and selection modes, as well as a few other things. We're using Max again, and now we're looking into Blender with 2.8 coming out soon. I know you generally should learn the software with the default controls and then customize from there, but some things, like camera controls, are very ingrained into people's brains. I was wondering what all I should change and set up to get it working like Max, and then I was hoping there was a way I could give that configuration to other people. Does anyone have any ideas?
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  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Well, the way to do so is to follow something like this, and then distributing the settings as a preferences folder which will then load on startup.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12fqTUyDts0

    However ... this would be in my opinion putting the cart way before the wheels - imho there's no point trying to deploy such a thing to a whole team without having at least one person becoming familiar enough with the app beforehand. But hey, just my 2c.
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  • gnoop
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    gnoop sublime tool
    I set a Max style navigation for Blender 2.8 for myself.  It's  only Max viewport navigation and focus selection with Z ,  noting else.

    Rename it to  anything.py (couldn't attach it as .py)    and import in edit>preferences>keymap>import
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  • Elarionus
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    Elarionus polycounter lvl 3
    pior said:
    Well, the way to do so is to follow something like this, and then distributing the settings as a preferences folder which will then load on startup.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12fqTUyDts0

    However ... this would be in my opinion putting the cart way before the wheels - imho there's no point trying to deploy such a thing to a whole team without having at least one person becoming familiar enough with the app beforehand. But hey, just my 2c.
    I'm personally working on becoming familiar with it. So far, I got the camera to function the same, but the Q, W, E, R keys are INSANELY obnoxious, and I still haven't found a way to get them to the standard move, rotate, scale and select options. Nor have I found a way to use 1, 2, and 3 to get vertex, edge, and face selection, which would be very helpful, as it's similar to Max and Modo in terms of selection.

    I'm going through Blender Guru's 2.8 videos now, and I'm hoping to learn something from them, or at least figure out how it operates.

    I remember learning Modo after exclusively using Max and Maya, and it required a HUGE shift in thinking. Now I'm trying to figure out what the shift is for Blender. 
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  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    I'm putting up a series of vids later on. Blender 2.80 for Max users. First 5 videos are done. Probably another 5 to do. I'll update with a link later.

    Also, Blender 1/2/3 is the default vert/edge/face. Tab to jump in and out of edit mode(sub-ovject mode)

    For cameras(and other useful features) I use Machin3Tools free addon.
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  • Poly_Nut
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    Poly_Nut triangle
    Did the switch last year after 17 years of using and teaching max and what help me to get to speed at the beginning was bmax addon that brought most of the feature i was missing from 3ds max and now a new dev have taking the relay with his bsmax addon, he already have made almost all the default primitives and you can draw them just like in max with parameters, quad menu, clone tool, align tool, mirror, spline tools and many more, you can follow his work here : http://nevilart.blogspot.com/2019/02/bsmax.html.

    There is a lot of settings and keymap you have to change for optimal workflow but the reward is amazing a stable modeling tool that is blazing fast when you coupled it with a wacom and a 3d mouse.


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  • Swordslayer
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    Swordslayer interpolator
    On behalf of a friend of mine who did the switch before, here's a keymap he made to make that easier: https://blenderartists.org/t/a-proper-keymap-for-blender-2-8/
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  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    @Elarionus : to remap a specific command to something else you need to get familiar with the way the filters work in the input section of the preferences (now called Keymap tab). You can filter either by name or by currently assigned key. Here I am filtering by "W" to find Move (since I've already reassigned it to that) : 



    That way you'll be able to find and remap (and also disable) pretty much all you need.

    You'll also notice that I've merely unticked the popup menu related to Armature mode since it would have been conflicting. Blender will not warn you of that nor will it unbind it automatically - it's up to the user to chose to either deactivate or fully remove conflicting keys. I personally never delete, always just untick - thus making it easy to revert if needed. This is also why I think it is better to create one's own keymap rather than using premade ones from random people online, as there is no way to know what they deactivated or deleted.

    Good luck ! You're likely going to find the transition to be smoother than expected. If anything, 2.8 is actually a bit more cluttered than previous versions imho, with some elements being moved around for no good reason and some operations being just a tiny bit less responsive. But overall you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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  • Poly_Nut
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    Poly_Nut triangle
    Elarionus said:
    pior said:
    Well, the way to do so is to follow something like this, and then distributing the settings as a preferences folder which will then load on startup.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12fqTUyDts0

    However ... this would be in my opinion putting the cart way before the wheels - imho there's no point trying to deploy such a thing to a whole team without having at least one person becoming familiar enough with the app beforehand. But hey, just my 2c.
    I'm personally working on becoming familiar with it. So far, I got the camera to function the same, but the Q, W, E, R keys are INSANELY obnoxious, and I still haven't found a way to get them to the standard move, rotate, scale and select options. Nor have I found a way to use 1, 2, and 3 to get vertex, edge, and face selection, which would be very helpful, as it's similar to Max and Modo in terms of selection.

    I'm going through Blender Guru's 2.8 videos now, and I'm hoping to learn something from them, or at least figure out how it operates.

    I remember learning Modo after exclusively using Max and Maya, and it required a HUGE shift in thinking. Now I'm trying to figure out what the shift is for Blender. 
    An essential video for efficient selection here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wna0pSrRiGI&lc=z23efpfapznkcdvjz04t1aokgcavmzjbwdgp1chsva1abk0h00410
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  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    @Poly_Nut Now all Blender needs is an addon to cycle transform gizmos. I have a script in Max that I use to press space to cycle, just like in UE4. I've talked to both BSMax and Qwerty addon devs to join their addons and they both thought it was a good idea. For me, BSMax quad menu is useless without the changing the gizmo/box select like in the video above.
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  • Elarionus
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    Elarionus polycounter lvl 3
    musashidan said:
    @Poly_Nut Now all Blender needs is an addon to cycle transform gizmos. I have a script in Max that I use to press space to cycle, just like in UE4. I've talked to both BSMax and Qwerty addon devs to join their addons and they both thought it was a good idea. For me, BSMax quad menu is useless without the changing the gizmo/box select like in the video above.
    Yeah, the space to cycle is an interesting idea. I remember being able to do something similar in Modo.

    @pior Yeah, the keybinding setup really is quite amazing. I remember when I was first looking into Modo, and I found that option, and I was blown away, being able to reverse search. The outdated nature of Max really is quite extraordinary. Modo was my eye opener to that, for sure, and I may still use Modo for personal use if I can afford it. But hey, Blender is what we seem to be moving to, and it sure seems nice.

    In addition to the Space to cycle option that you're after @musashidan, is there any way to change the Q, W, E, and R keys that you've found yet to choose those specific tools? That's one of the last big hurdles.

    I'm actually making a document in addition to this as I go that's detailing the main differences I've found, especially in hotkeys, as hotkeys are one of the HARDEST things to get used to again. Alt + Q to toggle isolate was one of the best things ever in Max, and when I found that "local view" that's normally on the Numberpad / button, I was so stoked. It's toggle isolate, but even better! So in an excel sheet, I have the original max hotkey and the original blender hotkey that would correspond to it, as well as the new blender hotkey I'm assigning, plus the hotkey function that's being replaced, so I can go back and make sure they're all the same.

    I'm really looking forward to learning it, and I'm VERY much looking forward to your video series, @musashidan!
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  • Elarionus
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    Elarionus polycounter lvl 3
    Swordslayer said:
    On behalf of a friend of mine who did the switch before, here's a keymap he made to make that easier: https://blenderartists.org/t/a-proper-keymap-for-blender-2-8/

    I normally wouldn't double post, but this guys' excel sheet FAR destroys mine, and his work is so impressive, I just had to thank you for posting that link. I feel like that link should come with the freakin download to Blender. This is quite a bit nicer. I won't completely be going with his setup, as the camera navigation we may still want to have set to Max, and I'll still be completing my more technical analysis excel sheet, but this is an AMAZING baseline to go off of. Thank you.
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  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    Elarionus said:
    @pior Yeah, the keybinding setup really is quite amazing. I remember when I was first looking into Modo, and I found that option, and I was blown away, being able to reverse search. The outdated nature of Max really is quite extraordinary. Modo was my eye opener to that, for sure, and I may still use Modo for personal use if I can afford it. But hey, Blender is what we seem to be moving to, and it sure seems nice.In addition to the Space to cycle option that you're after @musashidan,

    is there any way to change the Q, W, E, and R keys that you've found yet to choose those specific tools? That's one of the last big hurdles.

    Max 2020 actually has a brand new hotkey editor(finally) that has reverse search for both actions and keys. Personally though, I use the Keyhydra plugin which is fantastic(and @Swordslayer mentioned above gets some pats on the back for that)

    This addon could be exactly what you're looking for. I like Blender's hotkey navigation, though, G/R/S, so I've been using that from the start. Now that I know how to use box select and the transform gizmos at the same time I might start using them.

    There is also MaxiVzs recent addon which has some really great little features for us Max users. Check out the other thread below.

    Machin3Tools addon that I mentioned above has nested Isolate Selection and Quick Align features that are very useful also.

    Here's the first 5 vids. Pretty basic stuff. Next vids up I'd like to do Selections, Modifiers, Smoothing Groups(hard/soft edges), Materials, and Camera/HDR render set up. I've only been dipping my toes in 2.80 in the last few months when I have some free time, so I thought it might be useful for other Max vets.



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  • Poly_Nut
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    Poly_Nut triangle
    musashidan said:
    @Poly_Nut Now all Blender needs is an addon to cycle transform gizmos. I have a script in Max that I use to press space to cycle, just like in UE4. I've talked to both BSMax and Qwerty addon devs to join their addons and they both thought it was a good idea. For me, BSMax quad menu is useless without the changing the gizmo/box select like in the video above.
    Agree with you and one annoyance i cannot figure out yet is how to get additive selection with Box Select or lasso in edit mode since if you want it to work you have to hit B on the keyboarb and you get the old cursor that is different than the Select box one and it is suppose to be the same tool!
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  • Poly_Nut
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    Poly_Nut triangle
    Elarionus said:
    Swordslayer said:
    On behalf of a friend of mine who did the switch before, here's a keymap he made to make that easier: https://blenderartists.org/t/a-proper-keymap-for-blender-2-8/

    I normally wouldn't double post, but this guys' excel sheet FAR destroys mine, and his work is so impressive, I just had to thank you for posting that link. I feel like that link should come with the freakin download to Blender. This is quite a bit nicer. I won't completely be going with his setup, as the camera navigation we may still want to have set to Max, and I'll still be completing my more technical analysis excel sheet, but this is an AMAZING baseline to go off of. Thank you.
    Agree it's the best keymap that i saw so far and you can see the guy thought about it for every keys and combination since blender devs seem to like making us doing heavy fingers acrobatic!
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  • goteki3d
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    goteki3d polycounter lvl 4
    Hi!

    Together with a friend I created a guide on how to easily adapt the navigation from Max to Blender.

    he tutorial includes changing the camera navigation, selecting (shift to ctrl) and many other things.

    Does not interfere with Blender's shortcuts! Allows you to use pivots when modeling.

    I worked for Max myself for many years and for a few months I switched to Blender. Check out this guide because it's really worth it.

    Are you tired of pressing B repeatedly to select an object? No problem, it works automatically in our guide.

    NAVIGATION WORKS LIKE AT MAX! Loop, edge, vertex! Everything works as in Max. Grid, vertex, poly colors? They are also like Max :) Check it out because it's worth it :)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwSO_RHibmQ
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