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(Character-Realtime) Build details in ZBrush or via texturemaps

goekbenjamin
polycounter lvl 6
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goekbenjamin polycounter lvl 6
Hey PolyCounters!
This question bothers me in every new project i start....

When i create a new character, there is a point a have to decide where (ZBrush, Substance Painter) i should build my details.
With details i mean tiny details like surface stuff (scratches in leather, clothing surface etc)

Some tend to create them in Zbrush, like here:

(additional you can work with layers for a non destructive workflow.)

On the other side it is also possible to create those details in SP right? (also non destructive)
Like a tilable alphas for clothes, stamps + alpha etc


Are there some benefits over the other workflow?
Is this just personal preferences?

The only main advantage in SP is that you dont have to rebake all the maps when you want to change some details.
Because when you made the details in ZBrush, you would have to change them in zbrush, export the model again and rebake it again.

I am super-excited what you all have to say and
i am thankful for every small opinion!
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  • Neox
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    Neox godlike master sticky
    the upside is, that you can see this stuff somewhat early in production. vs at the last step.

    to me it is more a thing of what the clients prefer, but personally some stuff i prefer to do in substance by now as it is just way quicker to iterate.
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  • Biomag
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    Biomag sublime tool
    Personally I prefer to sculpt the stuff in as it gives me more control. The only thing I leave to textures in Substance are tertiary details that feels generic. 

    So for example when it comes to cloth I would get the primary / secondary folds from MD, then adjust them in ZBrush, use alphas to place memory folds where the movement happens (also making sure it follows the flow the movement), sculpt the transitions between primary/secondary/tertiary details and leave the cloth pattern and dirt to Substance.

    With Metals I would leave the little scratches to textures. No reason to push the mesh density for these micro details.

    For skin I definitely don't want to give up the control that sculpting gives me. At least when we are talking close ups and realistic skin.

    Also using layers in ZBrush is absolutely key in my opinion. Especially with detailing. 


    You can probably do all that stuff also in Substance, but for me its also about getting a better feel for the sculpt. These details help to sell the material and get a clearer look where its going. I also use surface + alpha to mimic the material tiling patterns to see how strong my detail sculpting has to be pushed to not get lost once the material gets applied.


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  • Alex_J
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    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    If I am attempting high-end realistic character for portfolio, I tend to do like the others said. Zbrush gives most control, save only micro-surface details for texturing.

    But if I am making lower resolution characters for a top down game, or needing to make a lot of stuff quickly, I only do like secondary level detaisl in zbrush and fill in the rest with textures. I think a lot of what production experience teaches you is what kind of details to apply and what is a waste of time. Only way to learn is to just make a lot of charracters, get feedback, and also do practical stuff like make a game so you can view your characters in the larger context.

    But these other guys have much more experience than me so they might be able to say more about that.
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  • Laughing_Bun
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    Laughing_Bun polycounter lvl 17
    A lot of times people do it just because they want a cool sculpt. Its harder to get unique details in substance painter but its a lot easier to play with texture patterns. If you feel its really important to the design, do it in zbrush. If your design still holds up but you just want to give it that extra polish you can probably just do it in painter. For game production substance can speed you up a lot if that's the goal.
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  • goekbenjamin
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    goekbenjamin polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks alot for all your input!
    It really is nice to see how much great advices i got from this great forum!  :)
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  • RacePeaceDay
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    RacePeaceDay polycounter lvl 6
    I would do in texture, probably layered material because it can be tiled in shader to get better quality than baked (though it would look less unique, some details could be sculpted... or these details could be added as decals, like the torn cloth)

    Paragon use layered materials and I like how good cloth look in it.
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