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Modular Assets, should you delete back faces or keep them?

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JaxMurderer polycounter lvl 5
I've noticed in a number of videos that some people like to keep the top, bottom, and back faces of a simple wall or floor when it comes to creating modular assets?? why would you do this when as far as I can tell, all it does is take up more lightmap uv space and just unnecessarily makes it harder to deal with. Whats wrong with just having the wall or floor just be a simple Plane?

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  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    To give people like you something to obsess about! Muahaha. 

    On a serious note, I remember making walls but I deleted the top and bottom halves. This was because when I imported the object in Unreal Engine 4, it would sometimes show up invisible because the side that has the normal pointed towards the camera could be backwards. It got annoying having to rotate around the scene and having to search for planes so I just said screw it, I'll give it thickness.

    For all Non-UE4 work, I basically delete all the faces that I wont need to show in a render shot. I'm even thinking of rendering environments where the entire back part of a building is removed!

  • JaxMurderer
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    JaxMurderer polycounter lvl 5
    lol so other than having to deal with Ue4 only rendering one side of a an asset/Material (which I'm pretty sure you can just check a box that say's something to extent of "render two sided material" that fix's it) there really is no need for keeping extra face's that you aren't gonna be seeing and take up space in lightmap texture???
  • Eric Chadwick
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    Wrong forum. Moved from General Discussion to Technical Talk.
  • Axi5
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    Axi5 interpolator
    lol so other than having to deal with Ue4 only rendering one side of a an asset/Material (which I'm pretty sure you can just check a box that say's something to extent of "render two sided material" that fix's it) there really is no need for keeping extra face's that you aren't gonna be seeing and take up space in lightmap texture???
    You can delete those UVs if you don't want them to cause any texel loss.

    IMO it's fine to leave it there for reasons JordanN stated. It's not the most efficient sure, but it's not going to be severe fillrate most of the time so the impact should be minor.
  • Mant1k0re
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    Mant1k0re polycounter lvl 8
    Some of the biggest proponents for the use of modular kits on a large scale use dynamic lighting in their games (eg Bethesda) anyway, so there's no consideration of lightmap space being wasted. AS Axi5 said you can scale down those faces to 1 pixel so they don't take any UV space. In my experience it's better to keep those faces in scenarios where not everything is snapping at perfect angles (the way caves are done in Skyrim and Fallout, for instance). That way you can intersect meshes with one another and avoid all kind of issues around light leaks, etc.

    The smallest piece of foliage in any game is a lot more taxing on the rendering pipeline than a few unseen faces in wall kits anyway...
  • Larry
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    Larry interpolator
    I think it has to do with light bleeding at such thin meshes in UE4, so you would want to have a wall at least 2cm thick if i recal from epic games' live training
    minute 25:00
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu3NfoXNZG4
  • Mark Dygert
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    We tend to think about polys when we should be thinking about verts. Verts matter more than polys. Verts are points in space and polys are surfaces between those verts. If you delete the poly but leave the verts its not saving much, to really get some savings you need to nuke the points in space.

    If you delete one face of a box but leave the other 5, you have the same number of verts you had originally.
    What if you delete the top and bottom faces, same number of verts.
    Delete the back and top but leave the sides and front, same number of verts.
    Delete both sides, the back and the bottom, but leave the front and top, finally you lost 2 out of 8 verts... (party horn)
    Get rid of it all except for the front face and you've gotten the biggest savings you'll ever get, 4 out of the 8 verts remain (party horn and confetti)

    So what are you really saving? UV space? UV verts? Shading verts? What is the real savings?

    What are the effects of 2 sided rendering on your material? It renders ALL polygons that are assigned that material 2 times instead of once, which is probably more expensive than adding a polygon to cover up the back and rendering everything once.

    Is that polygon useful in some way? Like Larry pointed out, does it help with lighting?
    Do you have to place blocking volumes?

    Can you guarantee that those polys really aren't needed and removing them will benefit the overall game in a significant way?
    Is there a chance someone might place that prop and not cover up the open ends?
    What looks worse seeing into the prop/void or starring at a cap? 
    Do they have to place a more expensive props over the gaps? That can cause you're layout to be more expensive.
    Do the caps need materials, can they overlap existing UV's or use some tiny fraction of unused space?



  • JaxMurderer
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    JaxMurderer polycounter lvl 5
    So what I'm getting at is that keeping the faces might even be less taxing than having to have "two sided material" checked for just a single plane. One of the points made in that live steam (thank you Larry) was that with modular meshes there is a setting in lightmass that you can check to get rid of seams between Modular wall pieces... who already knew this and why I haven't heard about this before  hahaha
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