A Rock! In Zbrush! Woo!
polycounter lvl 5
Today I've pseudo-conquered mi inability to sculpt decent rocks in Zbrush!
Started with a cube, Dynamesh'd it, and went from there.
Now, to Texture it......
Any tips, suggestions, and/or crit is welcome
Started with a cube, Dynamesh'd it, and went from there.
Now, to Texture it......
Any tips, suggestions, and/or crit is welcome
Replies
I was thinking softice, as I was scrolling down.
I think its a nice first rock, but dont try to polish this up or texture it. Make a new one. Make 10, this being the first, and show us the other 9 as well
Ditto, if you think this rock is nice - you'll be amazed at what you create after applying a few new techniques.
A quick practice sculpt of a pile of slab-like rocks, utilizing more "Flat area" and "Trim" technology!
I prefer the "random" way. Yes, it it slower but I'm more likely to discover something that works for me as opposed to copying something and not really learning much. *If you get what I'm trying to say* =\
I learn best the hard way. Plus i find it enjoyable.
I do use refs for anatomy and architectural things though.
Anywho, another quick pile of "rocks":
Other side
I do not like "copying" references for nature/organic-like stuffs- Ahhhhh, what? this is the most backwards thing I have heard in years. It doesn't matter what your doing, always pull ref.
though I DO study them.- No you don't study them. I know for a fact you don't, because they look nothing at all like rocks.
Yes, it it slower but I'm more likely to discover something that works for me as opposed to copying something and not really learning much- If your learning how to use tools sure. As for the rest. It is the exact opposite of learning how to make something... unless of course, your trying to make your inner rock.
I learn best the hard way. Plus i find it enjoyable.- there's the hard way, and then there is the wrong way. yeah, wrong way man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_akwHYMdbsM
Go grab some ref. man, it will make the job easier, you'll learn a lot, and have a better end product.
Because copying something is so much better than making something on your own. If only my English prof shared your views....
A quote my Prof Like to say:
"Learn from the best, but NEVER copy them. If you do, then you're just working without feeling."
I'll dumb it down in case you don't understand or have too much of an ego to interpret it properly: If I copy something I see, That's all I'm doing. COPYING. However if I do something from my Imagination, Not only can I make something unique that I like, but I can also better learn a process that works for me as opposed to someone saying "This is how I do it, now you must do it too" *cough*. If I were on a time schedule, then I might pull refs for some alphas, but that's about it.
Because there Cant possibly be more than one way to do something.. That would just be crazy, amirite?
Are you Jesus or my invisible Siamese twin? Because that's the only way you could ever know what I do... Im scared now...
I'm not trying to make 9 billion poly ultra-super-hyper-mega realistic rocks where every nook was scanned in and rendered on a super computer.
What I'm trying to do, is make SIMPLE rocks that can be used as low-poly, stylized assets for a scene I'm (slowly) piecing together.
That's said, I understand the usefulness of having refs on-hand, I just Don't like Using them because then I don't feel like I made anything. I just copied it.
If only you could have understood that I have my own method of figuring stuff out, or better yet didn't Say anything, This whole thing could have been avoided.
And to be honest, I wasn't going to say anything either, But after you added that video.. I kinda had to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&feature=kp
Go grab some tuts man. you'll learn that there are, in fact, multiple ways to achieve an outcome. You might even find something you like. Who knows?
Anywho:
Another rock. No refs used *Gasp* pls dunt castrate meh!
https://www.google.ca/search?q=zbrush+rock&client=firefox-a&hs=V00&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=OmuOU7rrFIyqyATHxYLgDA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1536&bih=720#imgdii=_
https://www.google.ca/search?q=zbrush+pillar&client=firefox-a&hs=GMg&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=fGuOU9zXLdGNyAT50IDADw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1536&bih=720
Getting a reference sheet isn't "copying" nobody is saying "find a picture of a rock and try to 100% copy it."
You use the reference sheet to try and get an idea for what a natural form looks like, and from there you can derive from it and even add your own twist to it. Your asset is supposed to tell a story through it's general shape and texture. Rocks don't spawn out of nowhere with random shapes, they encounter erosion, people stepping on them, getting blown around, etc.. They break in certain spots (due to those factors) and it should be present.
That said you don't necessarily need to copy a ref exactly, but figure out what kind of rock you're going for, and take heavy inspiration and visual cues from some ref. Also, natural things aren't formed 'randomly' as you said. We actually know a lot about what is involved in the formations of different kinds of rocks, and what causes damage to them... right now your rocks do look 'random' and not particularly thoughtful. Keep at it though.
Trust me man, the rocks never got offended or accused me of plagiarizing.
Either way you are starting to get some nice hard edges on your rocks, but when you sculpt them, think of what kind of rocks they are. Volcanic rock? Polished stone? Slate? Marble?
It will help a lot to have a set idea of your final product. Which is where the reference that is being talked about above comes into play.
Polycount Rawk thread
Art critique is brutal but almost always honest. Some feedback is better than other, but never lash out at those trying to provide feedback. It makes you seem immature and unwilling to grow as an artist and a person. Polycount is a community of artists that want to help other artists improve, ZombieWells brings up a good point, and is not the only one that thinks you are going about this the wrong way. Look, 3D art and game art in general has a lot of artistic direction that can be put into things. The story, the expressions, directions, flow etc are all an important part of art. However, what is just as important is understanding the materials, forms, and makeup of what you are trying to recreate.
If you think for a moment that Rembrandt, Dürer, Da Vinci, or Caravaggio, the masters of their time, didn't spend countless hours copying directly from reference you are misled. How would you discover the beauty of anatomy in addition to how the forms work if you don't copy or work directly from references for hours upon hours until you do start to understand it. Art is a skilled craft. The practice sculpts that you are doing is not the art. It is the practice to learn how to craft the art later. So, like many others have stated, work from reference. If Da Vinci did it, so can you.
Finally, knock it off with them negative waves, dig the beauty of polycount around you. Keep what you say righteous, hopeful, and respectful. Because if you don't, and you want to be a part of this community, you won't get any respect in return. You'll also find it very difficult to get a job if you have a bad attitude about what your peers have to say about your work.
I also notice how you often say you just made something "quick". No one will think you are cool or impressive by making quick stuff if they don't look freakin awesome at the same time. Learn how to make stuff look good first.
Speed comes with experience, not the other way around.
Nature is the best master you can possibly have. And by using references, you are learning from it, not copying it.
But you ARE going the wrong way. Not just with your attitude, but with learning as well.
If you do a character, you dont just invent your own random anatomy, because you feel like it. You have to really study that shit. Only once you understand anatomy, you can start breaking the rules in ways that appear sexy.
Same for everything else, rocks included.
if you want to learn to make realistic rocks, pick a reference and find out the ways to replicate it so it looks believable. if you are working at a game studio, you will be given concept art to work from, or reference imagery. the art director is going to want it as close to the refs and concepts as possible. that will always yeild the best result. its not plagiarizing, its doing production work.
right now your rocks look like every other rock I see people not using reference making. a pile of random shapes that have hard edges all over the place and don't actually look like a pile of individual rocks, because its all sculpted at random from a single object.
I would sculpt 3-4 rock models and then put them together in engine or as lowpoly meshes to get a group of rocks look.
basically I think everyone starting out doesn't use refs or refuses to at first but anyone with actual production experience will tell you, its imperative and essential to the process of making visually pleasing stuff, even if its supposed to be stylized. Keep in mind all this advice is coming from people who actually work at game studios and do this kind of stuff on a daily basis, as well as could possibly have potential input on hiring at places where you could apply in future.
Ditto.. I don't need any aggro for trying to help. Try to be more reasonable next time you get some crit. Some people don't even get reply's on their posts, so take it on the chin and try to make the adjustments as best as you can.
this couldnt be more wrong. nature is full of patterns. theres absolutely nothing random in nature.
a rock has gone through so much shit in its lifetime that it appears to look random.. (every crack has its sense)
if you force yourself to do something from imagination while not even being able to copy a real one, it's gonna end badly..
I know quite a few people who like to draw lots of weird characters calling it comic style and avoid realistic drawings, because they "like it more"...
big lie.. they are just too lazy to get into anatomy, you need to know real anatomy before you can stylize it, right?
..atleast imho
I've spent a LOT of time trying to make my self bypass that, which haven't really worked. What I've found out though is that if I can get just enough random from zbrush or what ever, I can make it look exactly like I want it based on that.
Now, if you would have showed just tiny tiny bit of respect and gratitude for that critique I would have given you a fucking step by step full blown tutorial how I do it. Bu you know what? I won't. Cause that would be a fucking waste of my time.
But dude, don't listen to me.. It's not like I got my current job heavily based on my knowledge of doing just that. Rocks. And it's not like I know shit just cause I've spent almost 1/3 of my professional career working with it right? Nah, it's not like you have a bunch of talented professional artist trying to help you out or anything.. No no.. We are just here to prove you English teacher wrong.. Yep, you got us.
But hey! Simmer the fuck down, prove that you'r not a total ass and people might actually think about helping you, again.. Good luck!
One day my zbrush induced nightmares will end!
On a more serious note, I too would love to see a breakdown or workflow on how you go about creating rocks from start to asset finish.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125857&highlight=rawk
Also some awesome rocks to study
eta: didn't see rogelio already posted it :P